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Bans on Outdoor Stoves

Started by Gary_C, December 17, 2009, 11:28:16 PM

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Gary_C

I just installed my new outdoor wood boiler (Central Boiler Classic 6048 and not one of those E-2300 thankfully) and am very pleased with the performance. Just throw wood in and walk away. Most of the time there is very little wispy smoke or steam. But essentially all the wood I am burning right now is very dry.

But I do live on a farm and not in town. And many of the small towns around here are enacting bans on Outdoor Wood stoves in the city limits and those bans include corn burners and pellet burners, but not fireplaces. I think that is just wrong. from what I see and smell, the fireplaces are the worst smellers. some people use their fireplaces to burn their trash and even dirty diapers.

So are they doing the same thing in other places?
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

woodmills1

the current nh law requires all new stoves to be epa approved  they are called type I and they must be 200 feet from property lines, as of april 2010 they must be epa type II and at least 50 feet from property lines.  The law requires all stoves to have chimneys 2 feet higher than any neighboring dwellings within 300 feet of the stove, not counting the house on the property having the stove
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

firechief

I have an E-Classic 2300 and it works just fine.

rpote

I have an EC2300. Great machine and this forum and CB have been helpful in understanding how to best operate it. I know those who have "conventional" OWBs in our town have caused the local gov leaders to evaluate restrictive regulations concerning these units. When this was first discussed, I suggested they observe my EC2300 stack which is generally smoke free when simple precautions are taken like loading properly on dry wood, keeping the reaction chamber clear, and keeping the bypass closed. My neighbors have woodstoves and older technology OWBs that smoke excessively. You are right, those give us all a bad name and I know for a fact some burn materials in their boilers that they shouldn't (garbage, etc).

It's good to have your boiler on a farm away from town. I know a few people who have the same unit and they're really happy with it. I don't know if they use more wood or not but they don't heat as much area as me and my wood pile outlasts theirs so I can only assume my EC2300 is more efficient on wood consumption. It's hard to compare these things so I'll just be happy with the performance I get and focus on that. I do know the Thermopex was definitely worth it as I tried a cheaper version the first year and replaced the run this year with the right stuff. Getting twice the burn time and surprise!! the 180' piping run keeps snow on it this year. (last year I heated the ground most of the winter). I can get a 24 hour burn between fills so everyone is much happier.

Good luck with your unit. I plan to only use 150 gallons of fuel oil this year in my oil boiler as my secondary backup. I have the dual fuel unit so use the gas to start it and to backup the wood if I am away for a bit. Less than 100 gallons of propane consumption is the other goal this year. We heat about 5000 ft2 in a 1904 vintage home with about 9 full cords of dry hardwood ( I used to burn about 1800 gallons/year of fuel oil). We keep the house at 68-69 deg all winter and don't think twice about raising it if we need to (I used to go behind the girls and turn it down - not a popular thing to do...). THAT's one of the best things about my EC2300 - a very warm home.

Again, good luck with your boiler. I think there are a lot of folks that read the forum but don't comment because they're happy with their units. Learning about how to load the wood to prevent bridging, keeping the ashes flowing thru the bottom and keeping it clean have been useful for me. I check the forum occassionally to stay in touch. Good people here....



terra8186

The town next to me enacted a ban on OWB.  Someone installed one next to a new subdivision.  Next thing you know, they won't let any new OWBs in the township.  I made sure mine was documented in our township after that happened.

I own a 6048 and I am also very glad I don't have an E-Classic.  They sound like a lot of work.  My routine with a 6048 is through a couple of logs in twice a day.  Clean the ashes out every 2 months.  Very simple and maintenance free machine. 

woodmills1

my free heat machine......throw a couple of logs in 3 4  5 6 maybe 7 times a day and clean ashes once or twice a month but my house is a go broke with oil heat monster
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

red oaks lumber

i guess i can see a ban in a city but, a township? if you don't have close neibors thats going a bit to far. i'm glad i live in the country, i love my owb..
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

flapjack23

Quote from: red oaks lumber on December 22, 2009, 07:31:43 PM
i guess i can see a ban in a city but, a township? if you don't have close neibors thats going a bit to far. i'm glad i live in the country, i love my owb..

Townships in SE MI are more like cities. Urban sprawl has put subdivisions in all the farm fields. The township I work for (as a firefighter) has a population density of around 2000 people per square mile.

Andy
Stihl MS361

thecfarm

When I first got my owb my father started yelling they smoke they,they smoke.Asked him how he knew said he's been around ONE and saw it smoke.No idea the kind or what kind of wood he's burning.Always like to point mine out when he comes to visit,even in the summer time.  ;)Told me he would complain if he lived next door,can't even see a neighbor from my house.BUT it's OK for him to burn garbage out in the garage all summer,when all he has to do is go out he front do and talk to his neighbors and they could hear him.  ::) Same idea as us loggers.We are raping the planet and doing no good but harm.I'm claiming a grown up pasture,so the wood will go through the owb or in a brush pile to be burned.No matter what it will make smoke.I drive down the road and see wood stoves smoke more than my owb at times,but that is OK,because it's not an owb.I've seen my wood stoves smoke more too. But I do know when I burn soft wood it does smoke ALOT more than good dry hardwood.Another FF member got one and it was sitting in the drive way and the neighbor came over and said he was going to complain about it.This was before it was even hooked up. Maine is doing something too.I would not want to be smoked out either.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

red oaks lumber

i think to many people still remeber the stoves from 15-20 yrs. ago. smoked more than old steam engine leaving petticoat junction!
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

woodmills1

petticoat junction OMG bettie jo, bille jo, and bobbie jo :D :D :D
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

red oaks lumber

woodmills,
i think that brought some memories back for ya!!
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

ken999

If I didn't have close neighbors I probably would have got a 6048 instead of the 2300. I've got lot's of wood around our 20 acres, no problem there.

Now that I've been running the 2300 for a couple of weeks and am slowly getting myself dialed into what the stove needs to burn properly, I'm not disappointed in the decision.

It's pretty neat to get a perfectly clear smokepipe and heat the house and domestic water on two small wheelborrow loads a day. We've had some chilly weather and I burned 6/10th's of a chord in 6 days last week, 2/3's of that was pine. The way it's looking right now I'll have plenty of wood to get through the winter and I've got half of next years wood cut-split-stacked in the shed already.

I drive by a couple of real smokers on the way to work. One I'm pretty sure is a 6048, the other I think is a 5036, but can't tell for sure if it's a CB or not. Both of those people need to have theirs taken away as they are out of control some mornings. I CERTAINLY wouldn't want to be there neighbor and the BOTH have houses within 100-150 feet.

Not good....

woodmills1

Didn't the girls on petticoat jundtion used to swim/bathe in the big tank they had for the train to water up with :D ;D :P :P :P
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

LeeB

Yes they didi and would hang thier petticoats on the edge of the tank, hence the name.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

red oaks lumber

yes they did, you dirty dog...   ah the good ol days  can't forget elle mae by the ceeement pond
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

ral

Have a friend and a Uncle that have smokers, so far no one has said anything to them but they know they could, they have said it to me! My neighbor asked me the other day if we had ours running,  8) started it Oct. 1st., they live about 250 yards away. I know the 2300 is a little more finicky but for us so far it has worked out well. We do burn fairly dry wood so there is very little or no smoke. It is a lot easier not causing problems if you are able, not saying I would not of bought a 6048 in the middle of nowhere. Also thought less wood consumption would be good, if that is fact, does make sense to me if you are burning more efficiently, not to guess how much though. Hope I am not grumbling later in the year.

Ken999, I took all the bricks out just a few weeks ago and think it has worked better. I think the heat transfer is much better and should help a lot with bridging, I have not had hardly any trouble with that, I think becuase the hard wood is heavier and less apt to conjoin. If I leave it alone it runs great, but I to like to look, make myself just walk away.     

Merry Christmas and Thanks to all, Randy

SwampDonkey

I don't know how some folks can afford the wood to feed'm. The neighbor buys and burns 30 cord a year to heat the house. It's hooked to a greenhouse as well, but that don't get used until March.  Their yard is stuffed with wood. ;D Smoke don't bother me too much as long as it's not like a fog bank. :D You can't see hardly a wisp of smoke off my basement furnace and dry maple and brick flu.  :)

They would be great for sawmillers wanting to be rid of slabs or someone always working their woodlot for the junk trees or from thinnings.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

thecfarm

Kinda hard for someone to judge the amount of wood a owb burns if you don't have one.I have been around wood stoves all my life.Burned wood at my parents house.that's all we had.I took out electric at a house I bought.I only had it one year and put in a wood and oil furnace combo.I had an old cook stove in this house,still had to use some oil.Than I bought the owb.I don't feel I'm burning much more wood.I'm heating a bigger area too.By the way we had a 75X18 foot greenhouse.This was before the owb.That was heated with a oil furnace.We got on a first name basic with the oil guy.We would just about go through a ΒΌ tank of a 250 gallon tank of oil when the temps got down into the teens.Was a 90,000 BTU furnace and it would run just about steady.Their yard would have to be "stuffed"  with wood heating a greenhouse.Not much insulation value with 2 layers of plastic.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

OneWithWood

Turns out the OWB rules are alive and well in Indiana  :-\

Here are the proposed requirements:
All units:
-Only burn clean wood or other approved fuel
-Smoke plume with less than 20% opacity

New Units:
-Must be certified through U.S. EPA's voluntary outdoor hydronic heater program and a purchase notice is to be sent to IDEM before installation

Existing Units:
-Must have a stack 5ft higher than a neighbor's building within 150ft
-Cannot operate from May through September

This rulemaking does not apply to indoor wood burning appliances like indoor stoves, fireplaces, or outdoor barbecues.

for futher info go to  www.idem.IN.gov/6507.htm
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

SwampDonkey

Quote from: OneWithWood on January 05, 2010, 01:18:14 PM
This rule making does not apply to indoor wood burning appliances like indoor stoves, fireplaces, or outdoor barbecues.

No, but the insurance companies will make their rules for those. The next time they come around I'm tearing up the policy.  :-X
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tom

I just don't know what you would do without your government "oversight".  It must be a comfortable and secure feeling to know that your officials are looking out for you so religiously. God Bless America!

Do you have a line up there with a sign that reads "what to do next"?   I think that is probably one of the next things for us. When they get the current society cubby holed, we'll be lined up to find out what we are allowed to do next.  ... or not. We may even get our wool sheared.   Baa-a-a-a  :-\

Gary_C

One local medium sized town passed an ordinance the banned burning in a fireplace. Seems one young couple was using their fireplace for a diaper disposal incinerator. That didn't go over very well.

Unfortunately there are some people that use those fireplaces for garbage and all household waste. Can't blame the neighbors for those complaints but they should use a more targeted punishment rather than bans for all.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

SwampDonkey

The thing they try around here is use and old oil drum to burn garbage. The new neighbor, who has moved on now, used to burn their kid's diapers outside in a barrel. A good north wind would blow that mess toward my brothers house and fill the air with dirty burning diaper pollution. He had to call the Environment department to make a complaint. They don't do much about anything, they don't want to get involved in controversy. Pretty much useless talking to them. It was a good day when they moved on.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

The thing they try around here is use and old oil drum to burn garbage. The new neighbor, who has moved on now, used to burn their kid's diapers outside in a barrel. A good north wind would blow that mess toward my brothers house and fill the air with dirty burning diaper pollution. He had to call the Environment department to make a complaint. They don't do much about anything, they don't want to get involved in controversy. Pretty much useless talking to them. It was a good day when they moved on. They even allowed a worker of theirs to live in a travel trailer across the road from my brother and dump raw sewage in the brook. Environment didn't do anything about that either.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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