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Another newbie w/ question re: logwork

Started by knowslittle, December 09, 2009, 10:01:53 PM

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knowslittle

  Another newbie . . .been lurking for 2-3 years, hoping to attend Fox Maple last summer (and the summer before that).  Now have a few questions for the resident wizards here.  Please bear with me.

  Been contracting finish carpentry/mill work  in L.A. for 26 years, now asked to build a few log trellis (sp?ok) where knife plates are mortised into the log post bottoms.  Have done this before on s4s stock using a stationary slot mortiser, but only need to go 5" deep at that time.
  The engineering now calls for a 1/2" plate mortised 11" deep into end grain on the log only, no cutting of the exposed outside of the log.
  Any suggestions how to efficiently cut consistently tight mortises  w/out the purchase of a $5000 slot cutter?

Second question:  any resource for Lodgepole  in the So. Cal. area?

Thanks in advance for your time and patience.
Have learned alot just from reading the post.  Thanks!  Oh, and Happy Holidays!

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Brad_bb

Yes, welcome!  How can you have watched for 2-3 years and never asked a question?  So it sounds like your question is about securing the posts to the foundation or deck with knife plate coming up into the post?  I take it that it will then be cross bolted?  There was a past thread which included a good pic of that.  I believe it was indicated to use a chainsaw to plunge into the post.  I can't find that thread right now.  Maybe someone else can find it for us.  It was about different ways of securing posts to decks or foundation.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

tallguy

The only way I have done it is with my chainsaw. You have to be careful but it is not to bad. I have a lot of lodge pole logs out here in wyoming and some in CO. How many are you needing and of what size?

knowslittle

Magicman--Thank you.

Brad-bb Not much TF or logwork in L.A., but your guess is right on target

Tallguy-  It seems like it would be pretty tough to accurately get a 1/2" mortise straight and true using a chainsaw, but don't have alot of personal experience w/ the tool myself

Thank you all for your time, do appreciate it!

witterbound

The mortise is only 1/2" wide and 11" deep.  Sounds like you need to set up some kind of a jig to hold a chainsaw.  If it's off a little you're not going to notice it once the steel plate is inserted.  My hunch is with the right bar and chain, and a little practice, you could freehand it.  It's pretty amazing what the log guys can do with a chainsaw.

moonhill

Will the $5000 slot cutter do 11" deep?  End grain and 11" deep is tricky business and to repeat the question, how many?  That will decide if you are going to sink $ into a new machine.  Maybe try the plunge with the chain saw.  Or find a local chain saw carver to come in for a day and do them. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

knowslittle

Witterbound- have no knowledge here, but are chains available in 1/2"?  I need to check that one. Using multiple cuts to gain 1/2" in width sounds logical, although I would think tough to make accurately.  I'm sure someone with great experience (not me) would have no problem here. Thank you.

Moonhill-  Yes, most go 11"+.  Only have a sketch at this time, details are few, but I'm thinking perhaps 12-15.  My concern is that if you're trying for tight cuts, and your cut is out of parallel with the long axis of the log say just 1/8"in that 11",  projecting this for a 10' post makes the post out of plumb
1 1/4".  And in my past experience, this cut needs to be tight to the knife plate to avoid slop.
In L.A. the only chain carvers I've seen are at the local county fair.  But,  perhaps I'm over-thinking this once more. I think I'll try a topic search.

  Did find that Lodgepole are no problem to acquire. 

Thanks  to both of you, enjoy the holidays!

Brad_bb

I still can't find the thread I was thinking of.  People posted pics of almost all post to sil connection types - knive blade, brackets, ties on the outside, etc.  Maybe It was on the TFguild forums?  I'll have to search there.  I thought Jim Rogers had contributed to it.  I'd be surprised if he didn't remember that one.
Here are two threads I did find here:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,30430.0.html
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,8266.0.html
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Jim_Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

metalspinner

knowslittle,
I can't find where you mention the size of the logs you will be using. 

I have never done what you are asking on the scale you will be working on.  But... ::)

If the logs were on the larger side, I would secure the log in a trough (pith centered), build a sliding fixture for the saw that uses the trough as a guide, and plunge the secured chainsaw into the log end.  Shim material can be used under the fixture between cuts to widen the kerf to the desired amount.

Remember I mentioned I have never done this and it's just off the top of my head- just brainstorming here. The danger, of course, is the bar tip entering the log. If the chainsaw holding fixture was securely fastened to the trough some of the danger may be averted.  The saw bar itself could have a bolt tying it to the fixture for extra rigidity. If the bolt is placed in the correct spot, it could be the depth gauge, too. Heavy duty rollerbearing drawer slides on the fixture to push the saw in and out?  A bullet proof booth to stand in while plunging? :D
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

metalspinner

I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Jim_Rogers

knowslittle:
I replied to your email.
Please call me so we can discuss your project.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

tallguy

 
Posted on: Yesterday at 12:10:39 AMPosted by: witterbound 
Insert Quote
The mortise is only 1/2" wide and 11" deep.  Sounds like you need to set up some kind of a jig to hold a chainsaw.  If it's off a little you're not going to notice it once the steel plate is inserted.  My hunch is with the right bar and chain, and a little practice, you could freehand it.  It's pretty amazing what the log guys can do with a chainsaw.

The chains that I use are 3/8" so you would have to make two cuts. Like Witterbound said with a little practice you can free hand it. That is all I do. when you do it vary much it doesnt take long to get good at it. I run my saw almost every day doing things like that though. Here are a few pic. of some post that I did almost the same thing you are looking to do. i dont have any close up of them but it is there. next time I make one of those cuts I will post it. 
I would say get a few logs and do a little practice to see if you will be able to make it work.
Just to warn you though once you start playing with logs it is hard to go back to sitcks :D
thats just what I have found though. this is the first time that i have posted a pic. Hope it works.
Good luck, Ryan





fishpharmer

Knowslittle, welcome to forestry forum from someone else that knows little ;D 
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

knowslittle

TallGuy- thanks again for your time. I do have a question for you. . .just what type bar and chain would you recommend for a 11" plunge cut into endgrain of Lodgepole?  Perhaps you could recommend a suitable chainsaw as well?  I'm sure you can do this reliably given your time on the saw,  but not sure I could consistantly do that quality of work, been some 23 years since I did any log scribe work.  Your pics look great!  Nice!  Sorry for the ignorant/basic questions , I just have little experience with this type of work. 

Fishpharmer- Thanks for the welcome.  Cannot believe how helpfull this forum is.




Meadows Miller

Gday

And welcome to the forum Knows  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) the only people who I know that knowlittle are the ones who don't ask questions  :) ::)  ;) :D so keep asking and you might have to change your name to knosafairbit Mate  ;) :D ;D 8) 8) 8)

I did log building with my dad for about 8 years from when I was 13yo with plunge cutting I've always done it free hand since I got my 1st a 2055 jonsered which is about the rite size and I wouldn't use anything over about the size of 75cc  ;) used std and low (radius) kickback bars w/out much difference  ;)

the trick is to get the bar about center of the width you want then work up then down to your marks  ;) when you enter the cut in the end of the log I always start with the  bottom of the bar at about a 45 degree angle so the bottom of the nose of the bar is doing the cutting for a start then as it starts working its way in you bring the bar up to a level 90deg position only do this when you have enough of the tip in the log to avoid violent kickback  ;)

Find a rough 12 to 20' log to practice on and set it up as if you where doing a set-out on a post do a cut 10 to 12 deep then dock it of and split it in half and see how you went  ;) and do it a few times until you get a feel for where the bar is in the cut it wont take long to pickup just don't get in a rush Mate  ;)

Another important thing is to make sure your saws in top condition and clean  ;) and check your chain-break is working properly before you start each cut  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

tallguy

Meadows miller said it great! I use a 575 husky. I have used smaller huskys that work fine also. I would say just take your time and get a good feel for it. Good luck.
Ryan

Jim_Rogers

Bob (knowslittle) and I had a conversation this morning and he may try and educate his engineer with a different type of knife plate. Which would make it easier to install and possibly somewhat stronger as well.

A fellow a while back used a plate with the piece of pipe attached to the top of it. That way you just bore a hole in the bottom of the log and insert the pipe and align all the side holes for the bolts, and plug the bolt holes afterwards.

I showed Bob a drawing I have of these base plate.



He may try and get his engineer to allow this type of connection to the base plate.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

moonhill

Boring a round hole will be a much better solution.   I wouldn't wish plunge cutting with a chain saw on anyone that hasn't the experience required. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

knowslittle

Good ideas and do appreciate your time Meadows Miller, Tallguy and Moonhill.  Another nod to the resident wizard Jim Rogers for his time/photos and feedback this a.m..  I'll do my best to get this change made, but I know the engineer pretty well, and here in L.A. they tend to run pretty stuborn due to seismic considerations.  We can at least try.
Thanks to all the great feedback and ideas!

Bob

tallguy

Good luck with which ever way you end up doing it. Hope everything goes great for you.

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