iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Chainsaw Safety

Started by BcWoodWorks, December 05, 2009, 02:53:51 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BcWoodWorks

A forum search came up with a lot of relevant posts, in other threads...but never any directly relating to proper chainsaw use.

If for some reason I missed it, I apologize. Delete this bad boy if that's the case.
  :)

As someone who has never used a chainsaw, I found myself absolutely, positively terrified, and scared away from ever wanting to learn how to use one...because of the pictures, and stories I've read here, and elsewhere online. On top of that "How to use a chainsaw" in youtube's search box gave me nothing but questionable results.

I understand that chainsaws are a very important part of modern logging, and brush clearing...but what's the point in saying "You could cut your head/leg in half" 15 seconds into the video?

I digress, the reason I'm starting this thread is because I hate being scared of something so essential. Where can I go for PROPER chainsaw safety? What do I need to know? Is there anyway to eliminate the risk of losing a limb, or at least lower said risk? Will a chain mesh jacket save your arm completely? What about chaps and your leg? Is owning/running a chainsaw even necessary for modern woodworking?

Maybe I'm being a sissy about this; but at 20 years old the idea of losing my life, my leg, or even a bunch of blood, because I screwed up due to bad advice....is too much to convince me to try and learn without some guidance.

Thanks everyone; my thoughts go out to everyone who's been injured or killed running a saw.
-Alec
:(
Alec - Woodworking rookie, and Private in the United States Army.

"Safety first, impressions last. Remember it." -Swampdonkey

rickywashere

do a search i'm sure there are training courses offered close to you , but if you know anyone that has had experience with c-saws then thats your best bet i have had all the training and found experience is the best teacher common sense is the best teacher if it seems dangerous then it prolly is ask questions we will help as much as we can.find a local logging company/tree service company. ask if you can observe them in action most will be glad to help you get started . chaps are a must glasses helmet and ear protection also, hard toe boots. i dont like loose fitting clothes when i operate a saw.. BUT i will say this you cant be afraid of a chainsaw use caution but not fear i have general found if your afraid of something you will get hurt by it ... so ask away and we will help ya out but i tell ya this once you get sawdust in your blood theres no going back ... hope to see ya around   

BcWoodWorks

Hey Ricky.

I know a couple people who are good with C-saws. One lives in Wisconsin, one lives in North Carolina...way too far away to teach me. I understand common sense, and experience...but I have my clumsy moments. I won't risk my life on trying to pick things up as I go. I hope you understand what I mean.

I was going to look into the tree services; but the truth is, I worry about some of those guys too. I saw a day laborer working for a tree company, sitting on top of a pile of brush...which was half fed into a powered off mulcher; while his buddies stood around leaning against the chipper.  :o

I'll check into it anyway though.  :)

I'm sure I'll get over the fear at some point, it's just being overly cautious of something I don't understand; and know has killed/hurt a LOT of people.

Thanks again Ricky. You'll see me around  ;D

Look forward to future replies.
Alec - Woodworking rookie, and Private in the United States Army.

"Safety first, impressions last. Remember it." -Swampdonkey

Ianab

A couple of online safety guides from OSH here in New Zealand.

Not a substitute for a proper training course, but reading them is a heck of a lot better than nothing.

Basic chainsaw operation - http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/chainsaws-2007.pdf

Tree felling and cross cutting - http://www.osh.dol.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/treefell.pdf

Yes chainsaw chaps are worth it. I haven't sliced mine open yet, but have had a couple of near misses that remind me why I am wearing them. Arm protection isn't as practical, and both your hands should be on the saw handles anway. Legs are the most common injury area, usually from doing something 'unwise'.

Undertanding what can go wrong, kickback, cutting limbs under tension, widow makers, tripping over with a running saw etc. If you know the real dangers you can avoid them.

Totally eliminate the risk? no. Make yourself 100X safer, yes.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

BcWoodWorks

Ian -

I appreciate your post (and links, too!) more than you know. It means a lot to me that the people here on the forums generally want others to be safe, but also you aren't hesitant to share some boringly basic stuff with us "Greenies".

The reason I asked about arm protection is; the dude on the youtube's "Expertvillage" channel (Mechanical engineer I think he was) videos was saying that if you catch the tip of your Chainsaw, it can kickback and catch you in the face; and I presumed that meant it also had enough "Ummmph" to over-power me and catch an arm too.

I'm going to hit the books hard tomorrow and learn about the dangers thoroughly.

Ian, you rock man; thanks again. Your links will probably increase my life span, and safety considerations exponentially.  ;D
Alec - Woodworking rookie, and Private in the United States Army.

"Safety first, impressions last. Remember it." -Swampdonkey

rickywashere

dont get me wrong i understand that you want to be safe and by all means you should . some simple things to remember is never skip on safe working practice .. the more you use a saw the more you seem to let slip by . as i'm sure the case is with the brush cutters you mentioned above .. a few rules to keep in mind are

#1. a dull saw will result in a cut to the operator faster than a sharp one will
#2  never skip on safety gear
#3 a loose chain can jump off and cut you
#4 if a job site looks dangerous it prolly is . make sure you have a clean working area when operating a saw
i'm sure there are a ton more things i could list but with 20+ years doing it the little things seem to slip your mind . i would start with a small saw and work my way up till you get the hang of it no need in going out buying a large saw to try and learn on ..

ask away we will be here to help as we can


Ianab

A kickback could certainly hit you in the head or shoulder, if you are standing with body parts in the way.

So watch your stance when you are cutting. The saw and bar should be slightly to the right of your body so that if you do get a bad kickback the bar will tend to go into the air over your right shoulder. Not into your face or neck.

When kickback occurs the tip of the bar will usually try to accellerate upward at about 60mph, and the saw rotate around it's centre of mass. So imagine if the saw suddenly flipped up 90deg, it it's goingto hit you, you are standing wrong.

Of course the smart thing is to not let it kick back at all.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

moonhill

Never let go of your fear of something it is what generates the caution needed, fear is good.   

Make sure the chain break works, I use mine all the time between cuts.  Keep the saw tuned so the chain does not run on.   

Around the mill I am not wearing chaps, I wonder how many do?  If I go into the woods to cut I have them on, no question.  As a goal see how many years you can go with out nicking your chaps.  I have seen guys with their chaps all cut up and the kevlar hanging out.   

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

RSteiner

Check out The Game of Logging website to see if there is any training offered in your area.  I attended two of the first courses back when Soren Ericson was teaching them. 

I was talking with a friend last week who told me of a very close call he had in the woods recently.  The short of it is he hung a spruce in another tree and decided to come back later with some heavy equipment to pull it out.  However, while he was still out in the woods and had gas in the saw he decided to cut a few more trees.  Loosing track of where he was in relation to the hung tree he cut another tree within striking distance of the hung tree. While he was making his retreat from the tree he just cut the tree that was hung decided to fall. As he stood watching the tree he just cut fall the hung tree fell right across the stump of the tree he just cut and the branches of the hung tree grazed him as he stood there.  A very close call which could have been avoided.

As he told me this I thought of what I know today of the dangers of working in the woods verses what I knew 30 years ago when I first got started and that thought sent shivers down my spine.

Don't ever loose your fear of a chainsaw or at least keep a health respect for what it can do to you.  A young police officer in New Hampshire was recently killed while running a chainsaw.  The story goes that he was cutting a limb when the saw kicked back and cut him across the upper body, he called 911 but was dead before help could arrive.

I am not trying to scare anyone, however the dangers are real but with the right training and knowledge they can be managed. 

Randy
Randy

Warbird

Check your local state forestry dept.  They can provide you information and if you talk to the right sort of folks, they'll probably be delighted to show you some basics.

rebocardo

I was scared moving from my axe and hand saw up to a chainsaw. I started with a small Poulan, read the manual, read the OSHA board, and read this board. Ended up with enough info. to avoid hurting or killing myself.

Many people recommend "Game Of Logging"

I did not start with them, but, knowing better now, a good helmet with face shield, chainsaw chaps, and steel toe boots are the min. for safety gear. Starting with a small saw with safety chain such as the MS-170/180 is a good way to start.

If you play the piano or make your living with your hands in a field such as doctor or programmer, you might want to skip the chain saw. 

stonebroke

Quote from: rebocardo on December 10, 2009, 08:26:07 AM
If you play the piano or make your living with your hands in a field such as doctor or programmer, you might want to skip the chain saw. 

Why? Do they really need all their fingers. :D :D :D

rebocardo

I was removing a down tree and a few standing ones and the home owner, a concert pianist wanted to help me. After I asked him that question, he decided I should work by myself  :D


northwoods1

Quote from: Ron Scott on March 25, 2011, 12:43:46 PM
A case for chain saw chaps.

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20110325/COLUMNISTS09/103250309/Schneider-My-gift-you-chance-learn-from-my-mistake?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

From my perspective the journalist in that article would have been more helpful by explaining what it was he was actually doing and what happened to cause him to cut himself, rather than just say "wear saw chaps".

Any way you look at it the best way to proceed when using a chainsaw, I think, is to avoid being cut in the 1st place. A good way to avoid that is to know and understand what potentially can and has happened to others in the past in different situations.

While using a chainsaw can be a dangerous undertaking I don't see it as anywhere near as a life threatening thing as the original poster of this thread makes it out to be. In fact I think the way he portrayed it is kind of hilarious. There are a lot of things we all do every day which are inherently more dangerous and have the potential for much more serious personal injury than using a chainsaw I believe. Take for instance driving an automobile. You get in your car and head down the road and are cruising at 60+mph... there is another car, or better yet a semi truck coming down the road... almost directly at you :D at the same rate of speed... you pass each other and avoid collision separated by only a very short distance... inattentiveness for a fraction of a moment, a mechanical failure, or some other unforeseen occurrence could and often is disastrous. Yet I bet that original poster isn't to afraid of driving an auto?? That is because he most likely is more familiar with the use of one than a chainsaw.


church

Hello, first I would like to say thanks to the members for all the information that you have / are willing to share, it has been very informative and enlightening. I do not usually take part in any forum types, but this site is the exception. This is my first reply / post on your site and is in regards to protective gear, there seems to be so much on the market  for such as helmets, chaps, etc. and each piece has their own standards and or ratings, where is one to begin when making a purchase? I am not new to the operation of a saw, but the protective gear is something that I really didn't think to much about, ( foolish I know now after more research and reading ). Maybe just becoming more mature or wiser, we have recently been Blessed with our first ( 2 ) grandchildren. The  Helmets I have looked at plastic or metal? Any info in regards to the purchase of such equipment would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you all again.
Church

sawguy21

Welcome aboard. First of all, what are your needs? Are you a weekend warrior? Are you subject to workers compensation rules? WCB are quite strict about ppe standards.
If you can, try on some gear. The cheaper pieces are not as comfortable, especially helmets, but provide some protection. OTOH, don't go overboard unless necessary. The chaps rated for 3900 fpm are heavy and miserable to wear on a hot day but some jurisdictions require them. Make sure it is comfortable so you won't be tempted not to wear it.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

thecfarm

church,welcome to the forum. Not many metal hardhats around here in the New England area. Plastic ones are fine.Seems like they have to be replaced one every 5 years or so. Seems like they come with a date inside them. I wear safety glasses,gloves,steel toes,hardhat and chaps. Just like someone on here said,safety gear cost about as much as a co-pay at a hospital. I like to wear my gear.I went years,like you,not doing the right thing. Wife kinda changed my mind on them things. In your case grand kids did it.
This is a real nice forum,not the bickering and fight like some places.That's why I stay here.
By the way,how many acres you own? If cutting wood on your land,have a tractor,skidder,ATV to get the wood out?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Magicman

Welcome church, to the Forestry Form.  Grandchildren and Birthdays have a way of making us think of safety.  I have recently become the poster child for getting whacked, sacked, and almost boxed. 

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,48610.0.html
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

church

Thanks guy's for all your reply's and welcome. I realize that I was vague in what we were doing here or attempting to do. It is myself and brother harvesting firewood for our personal use in heating our homes. We have 40 acres of mixed woods that we are working. I invested in a 61 Case 430 diesel tractor that we use for hauling the logs and moving his portable splitter from site to site. I am planning on creating a landing from which we can work off for safety and ease of production. That should eliminate the wear and tear on our vehicle as well, I lost the transmission in my 89 Chevy last fall, something that just happened as we try not to abuse our equipment. Last winter my better half insisted, ( strongly persuaded, she brings many good points to our table when making decisions ) that I put in an ODW. I am also hopeful of making a new Stihl saw purchase in the near future and that is when I started looking into PPE. I will be purchasing from a local dealer that I know. Outside the saw purchase I have not inquired of the other equipment from him as of yet. The helmet that Stihl makes does it stand the test being comfortable and fitting ? The chaps I have done some research and gaining more knowledge of. Anything that I may be overlooking ?
Thanks again for your responses,
Church















RSteiner

Hello Church

As most I started out not thinking about or wearing any PPE when using the chainsaw.  If you can try on a couple of different makes of helmets with hearing protection and face shields, I like the ones with 6 point suspension better and most today come that way.  You kind of do get what you pay for but you don't have to buy the most expsensive one to get something that is comfortable and will provide you with good protection. 

I recently purchased what was advertised as a premium helmet and hearing protection from a catalog I found it wasn't any better than the Husky brand helmet I had been using for a long time.

I do like the Labonville brand chaps over the other brands I have tried.  I bought my son a pair of Stihl chaps and he found out they will also do the job.  Boots are whatever you feel comfortable in.

At first soem of the PPE may feel a little awkward but after a while you will not feel comfortable cutting without wearing it.  Water is another thing you need for your own health when working in the woods.  At some point you may want to consider getting a skidding winch for the back of the tractor, what a difference they can make.

Randy
Randy

Raphael

I've found that's the biggest danger when using a chainsaw is other (unthinking) people, followed closely by pets.  Knowledge really is the key to safe chainsaw operation, if you know what could go wrong you're that much more prepared when it does.  Never tell yourself you know everything because you don't, and even if you did there's probably something you've forgotten.

I worked for a landscape architect who knew almost nothing about c-saws, first time I ever had a chainsaw kick back on me was when he came up behind me and tapped me on the shoulder to warn me that chainsaws can kick back.  Fortunately I was in the right position and managed to stop the arc of blade just beyond my right shoulder, about 4" short of his face.   ::)

The saws I'm using now are setup with (Logosol style) ripping chains, they'll kick back if you so much as look at them wrong.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Onthesauk

After using a chainsaw for 35 years, had my first little kickback enough to do a little bit of shreading on my jeans on my left thigh.  Not enough to cut the skin but enough to cause pause. 

Ordered a pair of chaps from Baileys this evening.
John Deere 3038E
Sukuki LT-F500

Don't attribute irritating behavior to malevolence when mere stupidity will suffice as an explanation.

Ron Scott

Its been a lucky 35 years without chaps. ;)
~Ron

Thank You Sponsors!