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need help on blades

Started by Luckyfarmer, November 22, 2009, 07:51:40 PM

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Luckyfarmer

I am sawing 16 ft logs and three is all I"m getting on a blade.  I am sawing white and red oak.  Is this normal or am I doing something wrong...I still haven't got to run the saw, just sit and watch :D :D :D 8)

Tom

It's  hard to say whether it is normal or not.  How big are the Logs?  If they are in the 15" range, or less, and clean, I would think that you might be sawing to slowly.  'Course you might be sawing 1/8" thick boards too.  :-\

That's the main reason that you can't measure your production by how many logs you saw.   I used to get asked that all of the time and I never could give an answer that satisfied me .... or them.   "How many logs did you saw today?" 

You have to count board fee t to get an idea about production  per day or what you get to a blade, etc. 

It even matters the size of your engine and the design of your saw.

Somehow, it doesn't feel like 3 logs to the blade is a good track record.   Yes, something must be wrong.

Maybe it should be your turn to run the saw.  :D

MartyParsons

How many board feet are in the three 16' logs? How dirty are the logs? How dry is the wood? How knoty is the wood? What hook angle blade are you using?  Are you debarking the logs?
Blade usually stay sharp for 500 bd /ft

M
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Papa1stuff

Well you just answered  a question for me also,I will be sawing a pine log tomorrow that has about 400 BF ,so I guess that will take one blade! ;D
1987 PB Grader with forks added to bucket
2--2008 455 Rancher Husky
WM CBN Sharpener & Setter

sgschwend

I find it easier to switch blades via a time clock.  A blade should stay sharp for about 2 hours of run time, which could easily be 600 bf (based on one inch cut thickness). ;)
Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

paul case

bd.ft doesnt mean much if a person is cutting cants beams or ties either. oak can be a real blade duller but so can wide cuts on my saw.(24'' to 36'')and length can add bd.ft faster. dry is usually harder to cut on oak. my experience is a dry red oak is still easier to cut than a green post oak. they are tough and they dull bands faster.if these 16' logs were 20'' in diameter and you were able to get 16 2x6 s from each one.each log would yeild 206 bd.ft so by that way of thinking you are in the ballpark on dulling by 500-600 bd.ft. i bet it took close to 2 hours and maybe more . just typin and thinkn, hope you get to run it soon   pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

tallguy

Quote from: paul case on November 22, 2009, 10:53:43 PM
  dry is usually harder to cut on oak. my experience is a dry red oak is still easier to cut than a green post oak. they are tough and they dull bands faster.  pc

So if dry oak is usually harder to cut then green and will dull a blade quicker. Is that true with pine?

ladylake

 It can vary a lot, cutting dried out white oak I had to change every hour 300 bf or so, cutting fresh basswood that was clean I ran the same blade for 4 hours, 1200bf +, it was starting to cut bad on the last log.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ljmathias

Pine is more variable than most of the others, I think.  Resin in pine has a huge effect on cutting- speed, need to use lube, need to stop and clean off blade when lube isn't enough, and getting it all over yourself and the mill.  I hate cutting fresh pine for that reason, but then, that's how you get the best pine lumber.

Dry pine cuts pretty easy but that's mainly because it's degraded quite a bit- talking logs here now.  I have a wack of pine logs that I peeled just after Katrina that have been "drying" in my pole barn over four years now.  Started cutting them up for siding and trim on the house I'm building for my son- some is a whole lot easier to cut then others.  If the log was from a fast growing tree, it doesn't have much heartwood, and the sapwood can be very dry and almost powedery- not much structural strength at all; I wouldn't use this stuff in framing unless I way oversized it.  Then again, if the log came from a slow growing tree that generated tight, close rings, it will have lots more heartwood and lots more resin trapped and dried in the wood.  Resin builds up on the blade more but the wood is much, much better quality.  Only problem with this stuff is that it splits like crazy, even with screws.  Cut some beautiful 4/4 for board and batten, heavy and doesn't soak up stain coating very well, but when I put it up, they split if I tried to screw within 4-5" of the ends.

All in all, working with air-dried logs is very different than using fresh ones.  Blades seem to stay sharp a whole lot longer (haven't tracked numbers yet) and cut flatter lumber as well.  Resin from fresh pines is always a mess- I'd love to hear how others deal with this as I'll be cutting trees next year for my other son's house- using new wood rather than my Katrina stash which I expect to run out in the next few months....

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

Magicman

I'd rather cut pine that the bark has slipped on, but today's logs were cut last week.  Dirt, etc. sets up with the rosin like concrete.  Gloves get covered.

I use 2 oz. of Cascade per gallon of water which works well in my LubeMizer.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ljmathias

Thanks, Magic- I currently use Pinesol and whatever cheap dishsoap the wife has on hand at the moment... Cascade is better somehow?  Costs more?  What do you do when resin builds up on your band anyway?  I live dangerously with that right now: take a broken piece of sawblade and scrape it off while the wheels are spinning and the blade turning but not cutting.  Used to have to do this after nearly every cut with my old manual mill- no lubemizer and fresh cut (then) Katrina pine then...

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

ladylake

Has anyone tried diesel on fresh pine?  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Don K

Since we are talking about SYP, I liked green pine on the LT 15, cut much easier a tradeoff for the sap. On the new mill all I have cut is dry pine so I can't say yet.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Chuck White

I now mix 1 cup (aprox) of "Mean Green" liquid with 5 gallons of water!

Works pretty well, but sometimes I still get pitch build-up.  When that happens I usually just flood the blade with the mix.  Once in a while it really gets bad, I'll spray the blade as it's slowly turning with "Liquid Wrench"!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

southpaw

Logmaster told me not to use anything but diesel, say it wont stain any wood and extense blade life by helping to run coolerand cleaner. mine is set to just drip---drip---drip. Seems to work no pitch build up and seem to get 700-800bft per.

ladylake

Thanks Chuck and Southpaw, I don't saw much pine but 1 time (fresh pine) I couldn't keep the pitch off the blade. I tried a good dose of dish soap which helped a little, next time I'll try WD or diesel..   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Magicman

Quote from: ljmathias on November 24, 2009, 05:38:40 AM
Thanks, Magic- I currently use Pinesol and whatever cheap dishsoap the wife has on hand at the moment... Cascade is better somehow?  Costs more?  What do you do when resin builds up on your band anyway?  Lj

I use Cascade and I don't have resin buildup on my blades.  Cost about $9 for a 155 oz. jug.  I use 2oz. per gallon, which means that the jug makes about 75 gallons of blade cleaner.  That's 18 days of sawing, or .50 per day for lube/cleaner.

Everyone has their own blade cleaner, and I'm not trying to change any minds.  I just know what works for me.  Plus, if my hands get dirty, I just use it to wash up...... :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

paul case

i use strait diesel on my blades and never have any resin build up unless it runs out. a couple drips a minute is usually enough. pretty cheap i have never used a quart per thousand bd.ft and it wont freeze up and bust the jug or valves.  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

bandmiller2

Best way to apply diesel is with a wick that rubs lightly on the top and bottom of the band no drips just a slight sheen on the band.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

backwoods sawyer

I normally run straight water and lots of it. If the logs are real sappy I will add 3/4 cup of pine sol to the water jug. I also keep a small jug of 50-50 bar oil and diesel that I drizzle on the blade if there is a build up, that will quiet the saw right down. If the saw is singing then it needs your attention or it will have a short life.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

solidwoods

One would have to be there to see the other 15 pieces to the puzzle of "am I getting enough bf per blade? ".

Dirt is grit. 
Any dirt on the logs are like sawing garnet sandpaper (mill a couple of side slabs off in the dark and see the sparks,  chain sawing is another way also).

New blades or used blades?

Bottom line is there is no magic blade, just many ways to abuse them.

An auto sharpener is a very good investment if you are milling very much.
You will always have sharp blades.
Each blade you sharpen makes you $.
If your only watching the milling, set up the sharpener and make some $.
Sharpen a couple customers blades and pay for your sharpener/setter.
jim - Sharpens blades for $.
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

paul case

i wish mine had the wick thing. i wonder if cooks sells a retrofit for that to fit my mill. my hay baler had a brush to apply oil to roller chains, wonder if that would work?  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

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