seafoam ?

[ed in idaho]

does anyone use seafoam moter treatment in your saw fuel ? a local stihl dealer recomends it to combat ethanol effects ??? think its worth a try ?

                 Ed

[Rockfarmer]

short answer,.. no   As I know it seafoam is a carbon cleaner. As you know ethanol gas contains alcohol which is also a detergent cleaner. So no seafaom and alcohol concoction on a daily basis would be a bad thing. Now if you have an old outbaord motor thats carboned up in the head and ring grooves a short seafom treament will release that carbon and if you do it right will not hurt the motor in fact will help it imensly,.. but,.. if you do it wrong and wind up the motor to much or too long you'll blow the bank. I have heard many stories of blown motors after the use of seafoam and I would guess its from improper use. Do I use it, yup, you bet! But follow the manufacturers specs. As a daily gas additive to beat the effects of ethanol gas you cant beat stabil (the green kind) and a metal gas container,... imho   ;)

[Captain]

Marine grade StaBil (the blue-green one) is better than SeaFoam as an ethanol stabilizer.

Captain

[John Mc]

I've heard, that the Marine grade Stabil will help stabilize some aspects of ethanol blend gas, but will not prevent the ethanol's tendency to bind with water and settle out (even combining with moisture from the air). This leaves you with lower octane gas, since the ethanol is part of where the blend gets its octane rating. It also leaves a corrosive water/alcohol mix in the bottom of the tank, with no lubricating properties (alcohol/water is heavier than gas/oil).

I've been unable to verify this info, however. Does anyone else have any facts on this?

In the mean time, I do put a shot of the Marine grade stabil in every time I fill up my 5 gallon gas can (even though I've so far been able to fill it with ethanol free gas).

[Rockfarmer]

Alcohol does absorb water and to a point thats a very good thing. "Phase Separation" will occur when the water content reaches a point where the alcohol cant absorb any more water and then you get separation, which is a very bad thing. It is a real problem in the marine industry where boats sit in wet climates with half full tanks and vent continuously into wet environments. Remember gas had water in it before the clean air act, mtbe and ethanol. The key is to use hi octane gas, use stabil, use metal gas containers and keep your fuel fresh and topped off.  If your getting to the point of phase separation your not doing these things. 

[John Mc]

Rockfarmer -

It's been a long time since I've dealt with this stuff in any detail. Doesn't phase separation happen much more easily at low concentrations of ethanol, like we see in our gas these days? If I recall, you don't see it in the high concentrations they are burning in Brazil, for instance (170 proof??). They're basically burning an alcohol/water mix that does not separate out.

If that's right, it almost seems as though what we're burning here in the US is almost designed to cause problems (especially in two stroke engines, which need that oil in the mix).

John Mc

[Rockfarmer]

Yes you are correct, the lower the percentage of ethanol in the gasoline the lower amount of water it can absorb before the phase separation occurs. I'm not real sure on the exact numbers here but let me just throw this out on the table as an example. Say there was 10 gals of e10 in the tank and we threw in a quart of water well the alcohol will absorb it and mayb e lower the octane level by 3-4%. Say we take the same tank of e10 and throw in a gal of water, the alcohol cant absorb it, it separates and were left with 8.5 gals of lousy gas floating on top of a water alcohol slush puppy that will get sucked up into your motor first and kill it or blow it up because its trying to burn it. Take a 10 gal tank of reg 89 octane gas and throw in a gal of water and it goes straight to the bottom of the tank gets sucked up and stalls the motor, no harm except the obvious (water in gas). Another problem with the marine industry is that ethanol eats at the resins in fiberglass and of course most bigger boats have custom glass tanks that now become mush, dissolve and you can imagine all the problems from there. Prepare yourself for more ethanol cause its coming and we are encouraging it with all this going green crap. Soon it will be 20% and so on.

[tbrickner]

Hi folks,

I haven't uses seafoam but I have used Star Tron Enzime Fuel treatment.  This stuff really works well.  It encapsulates the ethanol to help it burn off and keeps the ethanol from attracting water. 

I have a test kit to measure the amout of ethanol I get in my gas for chainsaws/blower/lawn mowers.  When you add this to the gas you can actualy see the ethanol separate but it gets cloudy from the encapsulation of the Star Tron treatment.  I used to have a problem with my lawnmower cutting out because I would have to store my gas for about a month in humid weather.  Ever since I started adding this to my gas I haven't had a problem with it for the past two years.

I use it in my chainsaw gas mix too and haven't had any problems.  I don't use a chainsaw often because I am a weekend wood cutter but maybe I am the best test case because my fuel sits around for a long time.

I also use it in my car and have had good results with it.  I don't kow if anyone else has used it.  Maybe they could post thier results. 

Anyways, i swear by it and I am pretty sceptical when it comes to magic chemical additives that will supposedly fix anyting for you.

Hope this helps,
Tom

[John Mc]

Tom -

Thanks for the info. That Star Tron stuff sounds interesting.
Here's the web site: http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

Here's the description from their "Eliminates and Prevents Ethanol Fuel Problems" tab:
Ethanol / E10 fuels increase the amounts of water and sludge in your fuel tank.
Star Tron breaks down this excess water and sludge to sub-micron size allowing it to be safely burned away during normal engine operation. Therefore Star Tron prevents phase separation and fuel gelling, eliminating ethanol fuel problems.

It also sounds as though it's a fuel system cleaner and fuel stabilizer.

[Rocky_J]

Star Brite? Isn't that the same company that makes the Liquid Electrical Tape? I love that stuff! 

[John Mc]

I thought they were the guys with those obnoxious "Quick 'n Brite" cleaning product infomercials.

[Captain]

In my experience, the Marine grade StaBil works great for the "atmosphere exposed" fuel.  There's not much that can help the involuntary water invasion from rain, as an example, from causing phase separaton.  Last ride on the Harley today for the season, which reminds me...time for some treatment.

Captain