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LT40HD auto feed

Started by John_Haylow, November 21, 2009, 09:42:01 PM

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John_Haylow

I seem to have an intermittent problem with the auto feed on my LT40HD. It all started by a pause while going forward and sometimes not moving at all for a few seconds then start going again. It seems that sometimes it wants to go but all you hear is a sort of clicking sound or nothing at all.

After reading some previous posts here I was sure it was the variable speed control so I ordered one from Wood-Mizer and it made no difference, I then replaced the breaker still nothing. After talking with the tech I decided that I would try a new motor and overhaul my old one for a spare; new motor made no difference.

I have checked that there is nothing binding up or blocking its movement, cam rollers are good, drive belt is new, could not find any loose connections, battery is good, drum switches were changed 100 hrs ago. It works fine in reverse.

Any help would be appreciated, I have about 25 logs sitting in front of the mill for a customer.

John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

Magicman

Wow, you've thrown enough parts at it to fix anything.  This is tough without being able to put my hands on it.

Where is the clicking coming from?

With a voltmeter across the motor terminals, do you see steady voltage when in the forward mode or is it intermittant.  If intermittant, then you are looking for an electrical problem.  If steady, then you are looking for a mechanical problem.  It simply reverses polarity for forward and reverse, with the forward being controlled by the variable speed control.

Mechanical could also mean that you have a "splinter" or something jammed somewhere.  I'd look and then look again.  It doesn't take much to stop the carrage.  This is a very common problem.

I'll get my book out, but I expect others will also jump on this.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

John;
Intermittent electrical problems are tough!
It could be the "spring-loaded ground" on the bottom rail.
Sometimes sawdust will get down between the ground and the bottom rail and insulate it.
Clean the bottom rail with some coarse-steel wool, and pull down on the spring-loaded contact and clean that too!
It could still be one of the contacts on the drum switch, even though it was recently replaced.

Chuck
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

pineywoods

I would bet drum switch contacts. The fact that it works ok in reverse says probably drum switch. When you say speed control, are you talking about the little unit that the speed control knob fastens to, or the big circuit board up in the top of the control box? Try this..When it stops, pull the fwd control back to neutral. then push it forward. If the head moves ok, it's drum switch contacts. You say the switch was changed out, were the contacts on the new one lubed ?
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Tom

It sure sounds like you have a splinter hung up somewhere.  I used to get them behind the battery box and they would hang up as I passed over the axle.  Sometimes I would get trash around the sprocket that rides on the chain.  I had one problem that really had me buffaloed for awhile.  It was siezed bearings on the shaft that the three speed sheaves are one. They had worn the shafte so that there were grooves in it.

I've also had splinters or packed sawdust get under the grounding pad that rides on the bottom rail. That will drive you crazy.  It's hard for me to do much but suggest because my mind only pictures the old mill, before they started to move all of that stuff, down low around the chain.

The bearings in the cam followers will act like that when they sieze or wear out.  The drive chain being too tight will act like that too.  If you can't find anything, you might put some ATF in an engineers oil can and start squirting it all around the sprockets,  shafts and stuff.  Maybe you can squirt something and make a difference.  That would at least give you an idea of where to look.

If it is a broken or pinched wire, or loose connection, it will be a bear to find.

Another place for a bad contact would be in the contact block that is in the vicinity of the computer board. Those little screws can work loose and make a bad connection for the Rheostat (I know that's not what it is, but that's what I call it. ) :D

customsawyer

Check your idle sproket that the chain rides on. ;D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

John_Haylow

Thanks for all your suggestions guys,each of you have given me something to look for. If I can't get her going today I will let the guys at Wood-Mizer look at her. I'm lucky that they are only 1.5 hrs away.

John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

John_Haylow

Quote from: pineywoods on November 21, 2009, 10:53:06 PM
I would bet drum switch contacts. The fact that it works ok in reverse says probably drum switch. When you say speed control, are you talking about the little unit that the speed control knob fastens to, or the big circuit board up in the top of the control box? Try this..When it stops, pull the fwd control back to neutral. then push it forward. If the head moves ok, it's drum switch contacts. You say the switch was changed out, were the contacts on the new one lubed ?
Pineywoods,
Yes the little unit that the speed control knob fastens to. Wood-Mizer changed the drum switches for me and they did lube them.
John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

John_Haylow

Quote from: Magicman on November 21, 2009, 10:04:56 PM
Wow, you've thrown enough parts at it to fix anything.  This is tough without being able to put my hands on it.

Where is the clicking coming from?

With a voltmeter across the motor terminals, do you see steady voltage when in the forward mode or is it intermittant.  If intermittant, then you are looking for an electrical problem.  If steady, then you are looking for a mechanical problem.  It simply reverses polarity for forward and reverse, with the forward being controlled by the variable speed control.

Mechanical could also mean that you have a "splinter" or something jammed somewhere.  I'd look and then look again.  It doesn't take much to stop the carrage.  This is a very common problem.

I'll get my book out, but I expect others will also jump on this.
Magicman,
the clicking sound is coming from the solenoid box next to the battery.
John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

Slingshot

  Have you tried another solenoid?  And checked all connections going to it?





_________________________-




John_Haylow

Quote from: Slingshot on November 22, 2009, 08:54:15 AM
  Have you tried another solenoid?  And checked all connections going to it?






_________________________-




I don't have a spare solenoid. Do you think the solenoid would work in reverse and not forward?
The connections seem to be ok.
John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

Slingshot


Don't know about it working one way and not another. On an auto I have used a jumper cable to by-pass
the solenoid connections and found the solonoid to be defective. A clicking sound means, of course, it is cutting in and out caused from a loose connection or it being defective.

John_Haylow

No luck today. The voltage does seem to fluctuate at the feed motor when the drum switch is set to forward. If you leave it set forward and the speed control set low it will start to move forward in about 5-10 seconds but sometimes it will travel a few feet down the rail sometimes all the way.

Does anyone think this sounds like the solenoid/ coil next to the battery box? Its the working in reverse that has me wondering.

Thanks
John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

Magicman

I'd temporarily bypass that power relay (beside the battery), which will remove any doubt whether or not it's your "bad guy".

In reverse, you have maximun power (voltage) going to the motor.  This could explain why reverse works.  In forward, you have variable voltage going to the motor, controlled by the speed rheostat.  I'd check the forward movement with the rheostat turned to maximun speed.

No matter what you finally find wrong, remember that stuff, sawdust, chips, splinters, bark, etc. can/will  stop your forward motion.

Also, I like to have the mill tongue/hitch slightly higher so that the weight of the saw head is helping it move.  I never have it lower which would make it have to climb uphill as well as push the blade through the log.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

MartyParsons

OK,
Remove the Forward Feed belt. Does the motor problem still exist? Does the saw head push real easy not binding?
Check the connections on the drum switch. If you wiggle them and the forward feed motor works this may be the problem
There is not solenoid on a standard LT40 that works with the power feed. The Super mills do have a solenoid. 
The power feed control does not go thought the power feed module in reverse. So all that is working is the drum switch and the motor in Reverse.
Forward feed has a printed circuit module. Black Box. There are led lights on the box to help diagnosis. Here is a copy of what is in the manual.

If you have trouble determining the problem indicated by the LED lights, please note
which lights are on and call customer service for assistance.
IN - This light normally brightens and dims as the feed rate switch is turned up or down. If
the light is always on or always off, the feed rate switch is probably miswired. An erratic
light indicates a worn or defective feed rate switch.
OV - This light indicates an overvoltage condition. This can be caused by a defective
alternator not regulating voltage properly or a bad connection. The OV light will come on
and deactivate the power feed control output until the problem is corrected.
OL - This light indicates an extreme overload condition of the power feed motor caused
by a mechanical bind or a short in the wiring between the motor and circuit board. The OL
light will come on and deactivate the power feed control output until the problem is corrected.
OUT - This light normally dims and brightens at the same rate as the IN light when the
feed rate switch is turned up and down. If the OUT light does not correspond with the IN
light, look to see if OV or OL lights are coming on. If not, then the control module may be
damaged. Call Customer Service for assistance.
PWR - Indicates battery power is present at the power feed control circuit board.

other things are check connections at Battery, Ground in rear of the operator station.

If you have your operator manual all of this should be in there. There is also info in the wiring diagram in the manual also.  I would be glad to help you out if you need me.
Just give me a call .
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

John_Haylow

Hi Marty,

Thanks for taking the time to post. I did try removing the belt and the motor acted the same. I could roll the mill head by hand easily. After checking the LED lights on the control box I noticed that the OL light stayed on.

I'm going to set up a appointment with Wood-Mizer at Manilla this week.

John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

Brucer

Quote from: MartyParsons on November 22, 2009, 06:23:23 PM
OL - This light indicates an extreme overload condition of the power feed motor caused
by a mechanical bind or a short in the wiring between the motor and circuit board. The OL
light will come on and deactivate the power feed control output until the problem is corrected.
Marty

John, you seem to have confirmed that the problem isn't mechanical. If there's a short, it might draw down the power enough to knock out the solenoid for a second or two. The solenoid is operated by the key switch so it doesn't have a direct link with the feed motor.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

sparks

John if you have an OL light coming on you have a defective power feed module. #024396-1. Replace that part and you'll be up and running again.
\"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.\" Abraham Lincoln

John_Haylow

Quote from: sparks on November 23, 2009, 10:08:05 AM
John if you have an OL light coming on you have a defective power feed module. #024396-1. Replace that part and you'll be up and running again.
Thanks Sparks.

I am taking the mill down to Manilla on Thursday. They were also wondering if it might be the module but said that they usually don't have an intermittent problem they usually just quit working all at once. It sounds like an easy fix.

Thanks again,
John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

ronwood

John,

I had to replace the power feed module on my mill.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

John_Haylow

Quote from: ronwood on November 23, 2009, 07:58:50 PM
John,

I had to replace the power feed module on my mill.

Ron
Hi Ron,
Was your mill acting similar to mine.

John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

John_Haylow

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to help me try and figure this out. I will hopefully be back in operation Thursday. It sounds like the power feed module. I will keep you posted.

John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

Magicman

Quote from: John_Haylow on November 21, 2009, 09:42:01 PM
After talking with the tech I decided that I would try a new motor and overhaul my old one for a spare; new motor made no difference.
John

Quote from: sparks on November 23, 2009, 10:08:05 AM
John if you have an OL light coming on you have a defective power feed module. #024396-1. Replace that part and you'll be up and running again.

Seems to me that John's conversation with the "tech" as stated in his OP, should have resulted in him replacing a "defective power feed module" instead of a "motor".  I just hate to see parts thrown at a problem.

Good luck Thursday, John..... :)



Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

backwoods sawyer

I had to replace my module three times in one year before changing over to the accuset 2. I have not had to change anything else in that area since.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

John_Haylow

Quote from: Magicman on November 23, 2009, 08:56:18 PM
Quote from: John_Haylow on November 21, 2009, 09:42:01 PM
After talking with the tech I decided that I would try a new motor and overhaul my old one for a spare; new motor made no difference.
John

Quote from: sparks on November 23, 2009, 10:08:05 AM
John if you have an OL light coming on you have a defective power feed module. #024396-1. Replace that part and you'll be up and running again.

Seems to me that John's conversation with the "tech" as stated in his OP, should have resulted in him replacing a "defective power feed module" instead of a "motor".  I just hate to see parts thrown at a problem.

Good luck Thursday, John..... :)




The ol light was not staying on at that point. The Tech just said it it could be time for a brush kit for the motor as the mill is approaching 1000 hrs. I opted to get a new motor as I plan on fixing the old one to have as a spare. Please don't get the wrong idea, Wood-Mizer has been most helpful.

John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

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