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Coiling blades

Started by Jerry, November 11, 2009, 05:08:55 PM

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Jerry

It may sound stupid but what is the secret to coiling bands. I have tried every way I thought possible to do it the way woodmizer explains it but it never comes out right. Maybee I am missing something. Maybee someone can explain it a little better to me . Thanks all for any help you can give me.
LT40G28 Manual Woodmizer

Tom

Man!  Have I got a surprise for you.

There are posts with verbiage explaining it and still pictures and even videos.  I'll go see if I can find some that I made and I'll put in some from others too, if I find them.  :)
Turn the coiled blade such that the teeth face you.  Hold the coils with your right hand and drop a free coil with your left.

wrong loop has been pulled down.  It locks.

Right loop has been pulled down.  It is free.

Turn teeth toward you.  Grasp a leg of the "X" in each hand.

Open the band


Now to coil it back up.

This is the move that some sawyers orchestrate to "wow" their customers.  Violent whipping of the blade isn't necessary though.  Hook the teeth beneath your belt. A little bit of bouncing up and down with your hands might help to get the blade to "break" and begin it's coiling.  Lift the hands and roll them together.

  By rolling your hands together, your thumbs will point to one another and you will be creating an "X" in the band.

Hold the "X" in one hand and lift the free coil with the other.

And there you are back at the beginning again.  :)

Now!  Wasn't that easy?

Here is Dan Shade's Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btOSZNjWMyk

And some explaination on the Knowledgebase.

uncoiling

coiling

moonhill

I don't know how you do it without gloves.  With all the safety issues that is brought up in other related threads I am surprised that gloves are not used.  Put some gloves on and it will go much easier for the newbies and oldies.  This is one place where you don't have to man-up.

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

customsawyer

Tom I only started the hard flip of the blade when I went to 1 3/4" X .055 blade it is a bit stiff and you have to do a bit more than bounce it to get it started.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Nomad

Quote from: moonhill on November 11, 2009, 06:16:53 PM
I don't know how you do it without gloves.  With all the safety issues that is brought up in other related threads I am surprised that gloves are not used.  Put some gloves on and it will go much easier for the newbies and oldies.  This is one place where you don't have to man-up.

Tim

       Safety is always important!  Not a matter of "manning up;" if you feel more comfortable wearing gloves, do so.  Personally, I'd be more concerned about safety glasses.  Nice description of handling a blade, too, I might add.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Dan_Shade

Gloves?  what are those???

if you go to the youtube page, there is a bit of debate over the safety of my video.  I figure it's best for each person to make up their own mind about anything they do.  If you want to wear gloves, wear them.  

I never wear gloves.  the teeth are far enough apart to put your fingers in the gullets.  

coiled up bands are kind of like a ticked off cat!

Be careful out there.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Jeff

I hate gloves. I only wear them to stay clean or warm. If I am not worried about those two things, No gloves. They get in my way and that makes ME unsafe.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

jason.weir

funny this topic comes up today - I had to look it up myself this afternoon as I could not for the life of me remember how.

In the past I had coiled them as Tom described but I found a way easier for me.

http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/skills/folding-bandsaw-blades-simple-as-one-two-three/

as for un-coiling them I still toss them into the grass and stand back...

-J


nas

I tell people that uncoiling bands is the most dangerous part of my job ;)

Nick
Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.
2002 WM LT40HDG25
stihl 066
Husky 365
1 wife
6 Kids

Jerry

I want to thank all of you for your help I knew there had to be an easy way to do it. Thanks again. I am retired and have a Woodmizer LT40 manual mill . I am cutting and sawing enough to build a cabin on the lake. Using pine for all the framing and have enough red cedar to bord and batten the whole cabin. I will try to do some pictures when I can if I can figure out how to post them. Thanks again.
LT40G28 Manual Woodmizer

Radar67

Quote from: jason.weir on November 11, 2009, 07:44:00 PM
In the past I had coiled them as Tom described but I found a way easier for me.

I would think this method would be hard to do with a 13 foot plus band. Could you provide pictures or a video of coiling on that size with your foot and one hand?
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

ohsoloco

Quote from: Radar67 on November 11, 2009, 08:35:54 PM
I would think this method would be hard to do with a 13 foot plus band. Could you provide pictures or a video of coiling on that size with your foot and one hand?

That's the method I use for my Norwood blades (12' long blades), 'cept I use two hands side by side.  Once you do it a couple times it's effortless. 

jason.weir

Quote from: Radar67 on November 11, 2009, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: jason.weir on November 11, 2009, 07:44:00 PM
In the past I had coiled them as Tom described but I found a way easier for me.

I would think this method would be hard to do with a 13 foot plus band. Could you provide pictures or a video of coiling on that size with your foot and one hand?

Not sure about a 13' blade - I'm using a Turner mill with probably a 7'-8' blade - That's why I said easier for me - Tom's way seems great for longer more flexible blades..  Mine are short and stiff..

-J

moonhill

I fold and unfold my 13' bands similar to Toms method, I plan ahead so the teeth are pointing away from my shins when it is completely unfolded.  Even with gloves my fingers find the gullets as mentioned above.  For the most part I only fold it up if it is cracked, I sharpen my own and leave them unfolded, it is better for them I have heard. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

ladylake

I have 12'  6" blades, use my left foot and left hand, takes about 2 seconds  Steves
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

You mean to unfold them you don't just throw them out on the lawn and run??Seriously the heavy bands I don't even try to coil,if I must compact them I copy woodmizer with the metal clip.Best way for learning is a big stiff old "V" belt, coil and uncoil then transfer to the ones with the teeth,they always get you. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Burlkraft

Quote from: Jeff on November 11, 2009, 06:49:57 PM
I hate gloves. I only wear them to stay clean or warm. If I am not worried about those two things, No gloves. They get in my way and that makes ME unsafe.

We all know ya got anudder use fer gloves  ;D  ;D

My local WoodMizer guy sharpens blades and he does not want them coiled. I have to wishbone them for him.
I'd rather be coiling  :-\  :-\  :-\
Why not just 1 pain free day?

bull

Woodmizer sells a flatbox of uncoiled blades 15 per box, only way to fly (buy)...... No more coiling blades for me since 2000........ I have enough scares !!!!!

And yes Bandmiller 2, the only way to uncoil blades is throw and run !!!!

Todd

My bandsaw takes 244"x1" blades, and the guy who makes them for me coils them double (6 loops). I asked him how to uncoil them, and he suggested cutting the strings and tossing them!! ;D  (i don't do that, but i'm pretty careful with them.  I still cannot figure out how to re-coil them like he does though)
Making somthing idiot-proof only leads to the creation of bigger idiots!

Tom

As much trouble as people go to, to get an ultra sharp tooth tip, and as much money as manufacturers spend on advertising the sharpness of their band teeth, I can't believe that "throwing a band out into the yard" would be an approved way of opening it.  ???

Dan_Shade

I'd also like to know how to coil into the 6 hoops instead of three.  if anybody knows how to do that, give it up!
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Todd

Roy (the guy that does my blades) showed me once, but the DanG smart-aleck did it in about 1.8 seconds and refused to show me again!! >:(
Making somthing idiot-proof only leads to the creation of bigger idiots!

Jeff

What, does he figure its a trade secret?   :-X
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Todd

No, i reccon he just likes to annoy me sometimes! ;D   (don't tell him it's working)
Making somthing idiot-proof only leads to the creation of bigger idiots!

Banjo picker

My bands are just over 17 ft. long...I used only Cooks SS when I first got my mill 1 1/2 inch bands that were .050.  I looked at all the pictures I could find and read all the post I found , and still could not coil a band....Then I bought some .043 bands and found that I had no problem getting them to coil back up....After getting the hang of it on the thinner bands the .050 's are not any trouble either.....Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

John Bartley

I no longer coil my blades. I set them inside each other until I get ten of them in a stack, then I put them into a wood case. It takes less room and is much easier to deal with.

cheers

John
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
Champion 25hp band mill, 20' bed
Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

Flatheadyoungin

but when you are a chicken........ :D

yeah, i have quite perfected the technique of grimacing, holding my face sideways, leaning back, being ready to run, and throwing the blade at the same time........quite effective....

even though i've only done one sawmill band the rest have been small bandsaw blades :-\ ;D

Magicman

If the customer is there, I tell them to watch closely because I coil the first one and they must do the rest......then watch their eyes pop out.... :o   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

backwoods sawyer

Throw and run is what you do with a grenade. Doing the same with a saw can be just as dangerous when it jumps back at you. Slow and steady with care and they will unfold with out all the excitement of an alligator chase. Not to mention that you will be able to saw wood with out leaving marks from the bent teeth.
Tom that was a good set of photos showing the complete process.
As for gloves if I have them on then I keep them on, if I do not, then I do not go looking for a pair to put on. The saw is not moving in your hand.
If you are having trouble getting the saw to brake over, hold the saw like Tom is in #5 and push it against the corner of a log being carful not to hook a tooth and take a slow step forward and the saw will brake over.   
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

pineywoods

I still throw and duck.. Ever notice that a thrown blade will uncoil with the teeth down in the dirt at least 90 % of the time?? why ? I coil the bands off my woodmizer without a problem., but I do use welders gloves. Neighbor brings over some blades off a norwood. They are short and I never have gotten the hang of coiling them.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Dodgy Loner

I use the foot-on-the-band method to coil my blades. I tried the method Tom demonstrates and was never able to get the band to fold over. I don't use gloves and it hasn't been a problem. I don't like gloves and never use them, but my dad won't even take a blade off the wheels without gloves on. I also toss the band to uncoil, but we have a lush lawn of bermuda grass that makes it less worrisome as far a damaging the teeth. I think a more controlled method would be nice, but frankly it scares me worse than just tossing them on the grass.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Dan_Shade

like bandmiller said, get a long lawnmower belt.  the process is the same to fold it up, and a lot less catastrophic if you make a mistake!
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

rickywashere


moonhill

Not only did he have gloves but glasses too :o

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

rickywashere

Quote from: moonhill on November 15, 2009, 07:00:59 AM
Not only did he have gloves but glasses too :o

Tim


thats the only thing i would change if it was me i dont like gloves around any kind of blade to many loose things to get caught .. i guess that comes from my use of a old hand crib block mill ///

Hale87

I just did the bounce and twist thing yesterday for the first time.

Man was that easy.

Thanks for the tip.......
2002 LT40HD sawmill, WM single blade edger, 23hp Kubota tractor, 2011 Kawasaki Mule, 2002 Honda Foreman, 1983 Case 480D backhoe

jwoods

Coiling and uncoiling blades isn't too bad IMO.

My last order of re-sharps from Cooks were flat-packed, 14 blades in a kidney-bean shape (one inside the other) held together with a "C" shaped piece of flat-bent metal.  I was positive my wife would have to take me to the ER whilst trying to get them all separated.

Joe

Magicman

Quote from: Hale87 on November 16, 2009, 09:07:56 AM
I just did the bounce and twist thing yesterday for the first time.

Man was that easy.

Thanks for the tip.......

NOW you can impress your customers.....  :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: jwoods on November 17, 2009, 08:15:52 AM
Coiling and uncoiling blades isn't too bad IMO.

My last order of re-sharps from Cooks were flat-packed, 14 blades in a kidney-bean shape (one inside the other) held together with a "C" shaped piece of flat-bent metal.  I was positive my wife would have to take me to the ER whilst trying to get them all separated.

Joe
You are not alone. The first few that you take out of the bundle tend to not do what you want them to. :o It seems that you need three or four hands to ease them out. whiteflag_smiley.  I will go find a pair of gloves when unboxing a new set of saws.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

WDH

If you throw the un-opened band on the sawdust pile to unfold, the sawdust keeps the teeth out of the dirt  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Chuck White

Once you have mastered coiling and uncoiling bands, try inverting the band without the band touching the floor/ground!

Like most things, it's easy once you know how!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

moonhill

Whoa, someone surrendering and putting gloves on :o  while dealing with bands!

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

Magicman

OK, I'll admit that I am a whimp.  Gloves, back support belt, welder's apron, steel toed boots, hat, safety glasses, dust mask & ear plugs when I'm sawing.  I keep the gloves on when coiling a band..... :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Dan_Shade

I like the ear muffs

Life is peaceful with earmuffs!
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Tom

Quote from: Chuck White on November 17, 2009, 06:39:31 PM
...try inverting the band without the band touching the floor/ground!
Like most things, it's easy once you know how!

The easy part is doing it and not knowing how it happened.  :D

Papa1stuff

When you have your own sharpener and setter you get to invert each and every band ,after 20 or 30 you get to do it pretty well ;D
1987 PB Grader with forks added to bucket
2--2008 455 Rancher Husky
WM CBN Sharpener & Setter

Tom

You're right Papa1.  I have turned a lot of them, but, I'll have to admit, I use my foot and both hands.  :D

Papa1stuff

I do it by putting the blade under a board  teeth down ,lift up and twist in or out with both hands and it inverts very easy!
1987 PB Grader with forks added to bucket
2--2008 455 Rancher Husky
WM CBN Sharpener & Setter

Tom

I guess I could use a board, but I step in the center-bottom and hold it at about 9 and 1.  Then I roll it.   It goes pretty easy that way too.

moonhill

When inverting the band for sharpening start with the teeth facing toward you so after the result the teeth are facing away from you, it is the last snap that "gets ya".   Yes a board or scrap of something to start from.   Don't forget to turn the band back after sharpening, they don't cut well backwards.  I had a old time sawyer watching me once when that happened.  I wondered if he had ever installed his big circular saw with the teeth going the wrong way?

It is not uncommon for me to find a cracked band while inverting them, they sound and feel different.

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

Tom

It makes a pretty smooth flow if you roll the band inside out when you take it off of the saw.

Being wrong side out, you won't accidentally put it back on, and it is ready to be set.

Set the band, roll it right side out, set the other side and then.....

put it on the sharpener.

Set and then Sharpen always made more sense to me.  I didn't have to scrub the burr off of the teeth.  :)

VictorH

I have not used my sharpener and setter yet but I too thought that setting first made more sense than deburring.  I realize that the width of the cut will be slightly thinner.  It can't be that much though.  Anyone else set and then sharpen?

Chuck White

Quote from: Tom on November 18, 2009, 02:40:16 PM
It makes a pretty smooth flow if you roll the band inside out when you take it off of the saw.

Being wrong side out, you won't accidentally put it back on, and it is ready to be set.

Set the band, roll it right side out, set the other side and then.....

put it on the sharpener.

Set and then Sharpen always made more sense to me.  I didn't have to scrub the burr off of the teeth.  :)

This is exactly what I do Tom!
When the dull blade comes off the mill, I invert it then coil it and put it in the truck!
At this point, it will be ready to set.



Quote from: VictorH on November 18, 2009, 06:00:07 PM
I have not used my sharpener and setter yet but I too thought that setting first made more sense than deburring.  I realize that the width of the cut will be slightly thinner.  It can't be that much though.  Anyone else set and then sharpen?

I have set, then sharpened for quite some time now, It really makes things a lot easier and more systematic!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

moonhill

The way I sharpen means I have to flip the band every time I sharpen, when the band comes off the saw I flip it and mark the weld with a marker for my starting point.  I don't set every sharpening and the setter is a dual tooth setter and is set in its use position, not flipped.  I happened to get one I had neglected to flip back.  I always check as I am putting on a fresh band now.  

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

Bibbyman

After 15 years, three mills, a couple two or three million board feet, 10,000+ machine hours of sawing, a body is bound to get complacent.

This afternoon I needed to use the vice in the sawshed.   I had hung a coiled blade over it.  Although normally I'd have a wire tying the coils, this one was "free" as it had come out of a flat pack and I was fresh out of wires.  I had what I intended to clamp in the vice in my left hand and picked up the blade in my right.  It sprang open as I took it from the vice.  It bit me in maybe five places.  The one at the base of my thumb the worse of the collection.   






The cut wasn't all that bad but it bleed too much for me to keep on working so I went in and cleaned it up and put a band-aid on it.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Tom

That's good for your high blood pressure, Bibby. :D

If you let a little out, your heart doesn't have to work so hard.  ;D

beenthere

Bibby, that is an "ouch". Hope I see that much blood deer hunting tomorrow (and not my own  :) ).
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

backwoods sawyer

Thanks Bibbyman ;D, that reminds me I have a loose saw that needs a wire put on it. ::) I was talking with a visiting sawyer and just hung it up in the dull saw rack rather then cut a new wire for it. ::) I did make a mental note that there was a lose saw on the rack. ;D
No harm, no foul, but that looks like a foul. :-\
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Chuck White

Quote from: moonhill on November 18, 2009, 07:03:02 PM
The way I sharpen means I have to flip the band every time I sharpen, when the band comes off the saw I flip it and mark the weld with a marker for my starting point.  I don't set every sharpening and the setter is a dual tooth setter and is set in its use position, not flipped.  I happened to get one I had neglected to flip back.  I always check as I am putting on a fresh band now.  
Tim


I "sort of" forgot that some mills have the teeth pointing in the opposite direction of the Wood-Mizer!
On the LT40, the teeth rotate towards the operators side of the mill as it goes through the log!

Well, as soon as I remove a dull blade from the mill, I invert it and at that point it is ready to set the first side.
As soon as the first side is set, I invert the blade again and it's ready for the other side to be set.
Then when the second side is set, the blade can go right onto the sharpener, then it's ready to go on the mill again!


~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

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