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Author Topic: pine coming back?  (Read 5715 times)

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Offline woodmills1

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pine coming back?
« on: November 04, 2009, 07:44:54 pm »
got lots of number one payed for logs last three loads and each had a paid for select.

one select paid 96 bucks...............one log.....early this year, lucky to get 300 bucks for the whole truck and trailer



So............is pine coming back?
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline WDH

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 09:25:55 pm »
Not according to the Economists.  Expectations for the market in 2010 from what I hear are still poor.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 03:16:27 am »
I take it, that was white pine. Whose buying? Irving supplies lumber to Home Depot up here, and they mill pine. So, they may pay more because they are getting more on the other end than most mills. That's my theory. Sure no drop in pricing in those places. Take it or leave it. ;)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 05:34:47 am »
What do economists know?  They look at past charts and project that out into the future.  Investors are the ones that put out hard cash to hedge against markets.  Right now, the investors are telling you that the dollar is going to tank, and they are putting money into gold, energy, and commodities.  This week, lumber had a 10% rally, coming off of market lows in October and putting the stud market at near August levels.  Not stellar, but a market that has upside.

Couple that with a few other seasonal factors.  Right now, the log supply in our area is dismal at best.  We're looking at going into the winter season with no logs in the yard, and logging conditions that could be better.  Put the economic factor of fewer loggers in the woods, and that means they have to raise prices to bring logs into the yard.  We're also past the time of log spoilage in the yards.

The lower dollar also means that imports are more expensive and our exports are cheaper.  We're seeing lots of movement in logs.  We can't saw them up and get the same price.  And the Canadians are the ones doing some of the buying. 

If we are seeing log movement in hardwoods, would high quality white pine be that much different?
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Offline WDH

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 08:56:35 am »
My comments were related to SYP and SPF dimension lumber for construction.  White pine serves a different market.  We have looked at all the data for housing and lumber demand, and the picture is not much brighter for 2010, but there is much better potential for 2011.  Not sure how this will affect the white pine and hardwood markets.

Of course, all the forecasters could be dead wrong.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Gary_C

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2009, 09:36:08 am »
Minnesota DNR is offering a large pine sale for auction in early December with 278 MBF of pine and a minimum bid of $83.10 per MBF. It is 76% white pine and 24% Norway pine. They have upped the starting price by 15% because of the high quality and the sale bill says it's 84% sawtimber and 11% bolts with the remainder pulp. I am not sure who will pay that kind of money as I know the bolt market is a little over $100 per cord. Don't know if the sawlog market for pine even exists right now.

However I have also heard that Anderson Windows is running full schedules and they are buyers of white pine.
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Offline WDH

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2009, 10:05:20 am »
Compared to current SYP stumpage at a little over $200/MBF, that white pine price is not too snazzy.  But, it is better than a stick in the eye!
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Gary_C

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2009, 10:21:13 am »
Another logger that I know is trying to move some very large (24 inch dia) and nice white pine that he paid $38 per cord stumpage for and he could not even find anyone that would take it at pulpwood prices.

So I don't even know who would be buyers for that white pine. And even the red pine buyers are paying just over $100 per cord and they will not take white pine.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline chucker

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 06:30:07 pm »
red pine is still going for a good price at 100.00 per tree for log homes in the northern part of the state .. market is still in the prospect mode for the log home buyers...... tree diameters are best at 18" to 10" and 40 foot lengths.... although their takeing whole lengthas a sale........................
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Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 10:30:17 pm »
iv'e been trying to buy pine red & white, paying 300/th. no one is cutting, can't get rid of pulpwood.hardwood mills can't buy logs either... no loggers left. the whole woodproducts industry is upside down. going to be a very long winter
the experts think i do things wrong
 over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Offline woodmills1

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2009, 10:57:46 pm »
the logs I am talking about are all white pine.  pallet grade is still 120 per thousand at the yard i sell to.  early this year I was lucky to be able to move any pine and most of what I got sold went out as pallet with a few #2 and the rare #1.  my pay slips are lagging about a month behind deliveries so the movement I am seeing started midle to end of sept.  I got 2 checks today for deliveries in early october.  following are some numbers from the slips.  what I am saying is...the mix of quality on my loads has not changed but the acceptance of better grade seems to be happening.

load on 10/9 20 logs  1920 bd ft  $386

6 small hardwoods  2 #1 rest pallet 96 bucks
5 #1 pines 222 bucks


load on 10/13 19 logs 2865 bd ft $685

4 large #1 268 bucks
2 select pines 16 foot 18 and 19" dia  230 bucks

I did not get the #1 or selects early this year
back in april everything got graded as pallet and I was happy to get $220 per load

James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline tuckermtn

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 01:07:16 pm »
All markets are local- having said that, yes it seems that the eastern white pine market is seeing a modest uptick in delivered prices.  One local mill just bumped its price to $325/mbf straight through with 3" black or red knots.  so yes, there are signs of life...
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Offline woodmills1

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 04:00:21 pm »
so, how do you like your palex?
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline tuckermtn

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 09:33:44 pm »
Palax has been great so far- only run 12-14 cord through it so far.  about a cord per hour in okay wood.  sawdust management is an issue, as it gets built up between tractor and splitter and can get into the pto shaft, etc... pleasantly surprised how high I can run wood up the seemingly short conveyor. 
JD 540B- trusty a little rusty
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Offline semologger

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2009, 08:01:24 am »
I have just set up  a post peeling yard and i am buying nothing but pine.
I am giveing
$2.20 for a 6 inch log
$2.50 for a 7 inch 
$3.00 for a 8 to 10 inch

Thats the small end of the log. and by the piece

Offline mad murdock

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 11:49:32 am »
LP Veneer mill in Melon, Wisc. (maybe they aren't even there anymore), used to buy White Pine Veneer, paid $600/mbf about 14 years ago, probably like all the rest of the markets......gone.   If it is good clear stuff, there are probably cabinet makers that would like it, just that a guy would have to produce a finished product up stuck with the sale., on a small scale in order to realize a profit.  83/mbf stumpage seems high in this economy.
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Offline woodmills1

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 06:31:50 pm »
semo you need to tell us how long the logs you pay for are, or is that the per foot price?
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline woodmills1

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2009, 06:33:11 pm »
so did you guys miss the line where I got 230 bucks for 2 pine 16 footers 8)
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 06:52:37 pm »
No, but they should be worth good money for the high grade large diameter logs. One hopes anyway.  ;D :)

That would usually cue the ordinary woodlot owner in these parts to high grade his pine and let the crooked stuff stand for future forest. I just got done thinning a lot this week and those old junk pine were left standing by the logger. Great future crop trees.  ::)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline woodmills1

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Re: pine coming back?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2009, 07:44:43 pm »
you are missing my point


nothing has been paying

nothing has been paying


now   we we need we we need can you can you
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM