I Know It's Been Asked but Need the Latest Word on Saws ... Best Bang for the $$

H60 Hawk Pilot · November 02, 2009, 09:14:25 PM

I have a Older Homelite.. it' s a Super XL12 . The saw is Ok for a 20 + year old saw, maybe older.

I've started to look for a good log yard saw for 22 to 30 inch White Pine & Hemlock Logs.

I deal at Lowe's and Tractor Supply a lot. I saw the Husky line they have.. I think the Rancher 455 or 450 is there. I stopped at the local lawn mower place and saw the Echo line, their big saw was $ 519.00 (don't remember the No#) and weighed 11 pound. He said they went up to $ 640.00 this year and it's last years model.

I did not want to rob the bank to buy a new saw, however, if it's a great saw and everyone swears by it.. I'll buy it.

I did read in one of the other post's.. Do Not Buy with Anti Kick Back Chain.. Worthless.

Avery

Dalden · November 02, 2009, 10:05:48 PM

Take a look at the EFCO saws - Bailey's sells them and I have seen them at even better prices then those you quoted for the Big Name saws at TSC/Depot/Lowes. The EFCO's have a two year commercial warrenty which is better even then Stihl. I just burned up my 660 so I was looking for a new saw for not much more then the repair quote - EFCO has one-

Mybe someone else on the forum has one and can comment on it -I'm iterested in a new saw too?

islandlogger · November 03, 2009, 05:22:27 AM

I honestly would NOT ever by a Echo saw, I havn't had much experience with Efco but a friend of mine bought one and curses it daily....
I will swear by the Stihl though only the ones still made and put together in Germany (usually these are the bigger saws now) I find the smaller models are getting rather funky....
However, recently I burned out my mid size saw and have been looking for a replacement, was going to go with Solo but then tryed out a Dolmar 5100S and beleive me I put it through the paces for a solid two week stint on a Gary Oak restoration project run by a Consulting Forrester buddy of mine (it was his Dolmar I used) and was impressed enough to decide to buy one, good mid range saw and has a high zip to it, take a 24 inch bar easy enough and alot of pull behind it, check them out!!

Good luck

gemniii · November 03, 2009, 05:46:55 AM

Quote from: islandlogger on November 03, 2009, 05:22:27 AM
I honestly would NOT ever by a Echo saw, I havn't had much experience with Efco but a friend of mine bought one and curses it daily....

Echo? Efco? or both?
Anyways -
Whose your local dealer?
I wanted a Makita, but there were NO dealers within distance for repair etc.
I wanted another Stihl (I've got an 021, 35CC), a 441 (70cc).
BUT
northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company discontinued Efco and I stumbled across an MT 3600 (35cc) for $50 (marked price $220). Then I won a rebadged (to John Deere CS62) 63cc Efco.
I've only put about 4 tanks thru the MT3600 and less than 1 thru the JD. Lot's of HP for weight.
After much research on another board I believe they are first class saws.
They do have an outboard clutch. I would HIGHLY reccommend Efco if you get them at significant discount. They have a 5 yr consumer (ie Hawk Pilot and son) warranty.

That said I'm looking for a Stihl 660.

thecfarm · November 03, 2009, 06:32:07 AM

I myself would not buy from a big box store.Even if I could save some money.I support my local dealer.You need to find a good saw shop and buy from them.A good dealer can be hard to find at times.Have friends with saws?Ask them the same question.I feel Stihl,Husky,Jonsered are all just about the same.Just depends if you are happy with the dealer.I like a local dealer so when I do have trouble,I can get it back in a few days.

chucker · November 03, 2009, 06:58:08 AM

bought a new efco 147 from northerntool in july, have cut 75 cords 4x4x8 of pine,aspen and red oak with no problems!! spent about 350.00 for the other red cutting devil.. wood buy another again someday when i wear this one out...

islandlogger · November 03, 2009, 08:14:17 AM

I love this forum lol great having input from all around the states/globe to compare with....that being said I read some folks have had luck with the Efco, I never used one, just went by what my buddy said about his and maybe he got a unlucky unit. And I agree with a above comment that good dealers are hard to come by, I am luck with mine (Harbor Rentals in Friday Harbor WA) in that they are a Stihl dealership but also a rental shop so can/will work on all makes and models and they know their stuff. Take the time to check dealerships out and ask folks who use them how they are treated etc.
Gemini, you can't go wrong with a Sthil 660, I love mine bought back when it was a 0-66 and have NEVER had trouble with it and get's alot of very punishing use, those babies pull some chips and not much slows them down. How do you like your 441? I am looking to replace my 0-44....

DGK · November 03, 2009, 10:04:46 AM

I run 3 MS660s, 1 MS 460 and a MS260. I use the 660's for bucking multiple stems of beetle-killed spruce. The 460 is a backup for the 660's. The Ms 260 is the saw that I pack around on the ATV, use around the mill, or use for limbing when necessary. The saws usually run about 4 hours straight 2 days per week. So far, 1 660 has had a piston seize due to a lean condition which the cause is still unknown. The other 2 660's and 460 have run without any problems except for the needle cage bearings needing to be replaced several times. The stihl bearings have a plastic cage that tends to melt if it runs out of grease. I have since started replacing them with an all metal bearing from Baileys for a third of the price.

DGK · November 03, 2009, 10:06:40 AM

Needle cage bearings on the clutch drum.

GASoline71 · November 03, 2009, 10:18:46 AM

How the heck do you guys "burn up" so many saws? And clutch bearings don't "run out" of grease...

I dunno, I'm not sayin' that I'm the cool guy here or anything... but in 30+ years of cuttin' I have never "burned up" a saw...

Anyways... to the OP... Stay away from the box store Husqvarnas... find a dealer... look at the 359 or a 357XP... a Stihl MS361 (now MS362) is compareable to these.

Gary

DGK · November 03, 2009, 10:22:23 AM

If clutch drum needle cage bearings don't run out of grease, why do they melt and why does the maintenance manual tell you to lubricate them?

chucker · November 03, 2009, 10:30:40 AM

:D thats the easiest fix with each rim driver replaced i always grease the bearings!! another great feature of the jonsered 600 modles, the chain side has the crank shaft drilled to grease the needle bearings without tearing it apart!! must be a ford idea?? lol

John Mc · November 03, 2009, 10:33:07 AM

Quote from: DGK on November 03, 2009, 10:22:23 AM
If clutch drum needle cage bearings don't run out of grease, why do they melt and why does the maintenance manual tell you to lubricate them?

Maybe what Gary was getting at was that it's not the bearing's fault? It doesn't "run out of grease", someone forgets to grease it.

John Mc

DGK · November 03, 2009, 10:40:11 AM

I have started to grease my needle cage bearings after every 8 to 12 hours of operation as opposed to the manufacturers recommendation of greasing each time the rim sprocket is replaced.

ladylake · November 04, 2009, 05:55:10 AM

I own a lot of different brands over here and there's nothing wrong with most.
2 044 Stihls nice well built saws, a tad heavy for my old bones.
MS170 Stihl gutless, built cheap but runs good.
385xp Husky built good, good power but heavy 23# full with B@C
Husky 55 Rancher not the best power for 53cc built decent, light
Echo 510 and 520 With a muffler mod and tuned right these saws rip.are light and always run , my favorites by far.
Echo CS440 built real well, light ,always run, not the best power for 45cc but a lot of grunt.
Echo CS6700. Built well, with a muffler mod just a hair behind my 044 Stihls for cutting speed and 1# lighter.
Echo CS8000 Built well, torque monster, just a hair behind my 385xp in cutting speed, not near the engine speed but huge torque. Same weight/
Echo CS370 Built fair, 36cc cuts almost twice as fast as my MS170 30cc
Solo 690 Built well, heavy 25# full 90cc smokes my 385xp 85cc.
Cub Cadet 56cc (Efco) Built well, fair power, heavy for the power
Dolmar 143 Built well, huge power if you can lift it 27# full
Solo 30cc built cheap, even more gutless than my MS170. Steve

Rocky_J · November 04, 2009, 07:12:25 AM

Greasing the sprocket bearing too often will lead to a buildup of crud clogging up the centrifugal clutch. When your chain keeps spinning at an idle then you get the pleasure of either taking the clutch apart to scrape out the caked, baked on crud or else buying a new clutch. Use VERY LITTLE grease on the clutch bearing. Glob it on too often and you create problems down the road.

GASoline71 · November 04, 2009, 10:07:46 AM

Quote from: John Mc on November 03, 2009, 10:33:07 AM
Maybe what Gary was getting at was that it's not the bearing's fault? It doesn't "run out of grease", someone forgets to grease it.

John Mc

Yep... exactly John.

I have saws that have lots and lots and lots of hours... and maybe have had the clutch bearin "greased" twice. We're talkin' 028's and 044's here. If you are smoking clutch bearings... you are runnin' your chains waaaaayyyyy too tight.

...and like Brian said... for you overengineers that grease stuff up every time you flip a bar, or every so many hours... you can gum up the internals, and make stuff even worse. If and when I ever grease a clutch bearing... it is a very small dag of high temp disc brake grease. I'm not sayin' you shouldn't do it... But... These aren't tractors... so easy on the grease... Just a dab'll do ya!

Gary

Gary

Cut4fun · November 04, 2009, 01:33:08 PM

(DGK said.
except for the needle cage bearings needing to be replaced several times. The stihl bearings have a plastic cage that tends to melt if it runs out of grease.
Needle cage bearings on the clutch drum.)

So the NEW Stihls have plastic caged clutch drum bearing now?

Al_Smith · November 05, 2009, 08:45:13 PM

To tell the truth I'm a bit bewildered also about this burning up a clutch drum bearing . ??? About the only thing I can think of to make that happen is letting the saw idle with the brake on for extended periods of time .

Now how anyone runs their saws is none of my business but mine are either cutting or shut off .They don't idle very much .

DGK · November 05, 2009, 09:10:54 PM

I would be curious as to how many others out there cut approximately 200 full cords of 16" firewood with each of their saws per year. The more a saw gets used the more maintenance it will require.

wi woodcutter · November 05, 2009, 09:19:04 PM

Quote from: GASoline71 on November 03, 2009, 10:18:46 AM
How the heck do you guys "burn up" so many saws? And clutch bearings don't "run out" of grease...

I dunno, I'm not sayin' that I'm the cool guy here or anything... but in 30+ years of cuttin' I have never "burned up" a saw...

Anyways... to the OP... Stay away from the box store Husqvarnas... find a dealer... look at the 359 or a 357XP... a Stihl MS361 (now MS362) is compareable to these.

Gary

I was kind of wondering how so many people "burn up" so many saws too? I have only seen one burned up saw. A friend of mines dad put straight gas in his Husky 55 and that did it in.

ladylake · November 05, 2009, 09:30:07 PM

The only time the clutch bearing does anything is at idle without the chain turning. I was just sawing with a older gent that starts his saw with the brake on on fast idle. That would heat that bearing up fast.. Other than that there are people that leave their diesel pickup idle all day for no reason at all. Steve

DGK · November 05, 2009, 10:07:08 PM

Hello Ladylake,

Thanks for the constructive reply. When we are using our saws, we apply the brake while it is idling. Maybe this is the true reason for the bearing failures that I have had. To keep things in perspective, I have had 3 bearing failures on 3 different saws each after about 200 hours of use. We need to keep the saws idling for cool down between loads of wood. Example we cut a turn of wood about 1/3+ of a cord in about 4 minutes (2 saws running) then, they idle for around 3 minutes then full throttle again for about 4 minutes. This goes on for about 4 hours straight. The saws don't get shutdown except for fuel & oil or chain replacement.I think that I'll try not applying the brake and see if this helps.

ladylake · November 05, 2009, 10:20:43 PM

Doug If your saws idle just a little bit too fast with the brake on that would be hard on those bearings, give it a try without the brake or slow the idle down just a little. Steve

beenthere · November 05, 2009, 10:22:42 PM

DGK
A short 8 minute video of that "hot saw" work would be interesting. 8)

I don't like the idling noise, so shut the saw off if it is set on the ground. Also, never pull the brake on. That might not be the best idea in the world, but it is the way it is with me.

I don't understand the idling for cool down. Seems the saw would cool faster if shut off. Granted, there is no air moving past the cooling fins, but still....how much air does an idling saw move that cools more than the internal heat generated by the saw firing? And to me, an idling saw doesn't burn clean which leads to plug fouling and maybe fouling under the head and in the muffler. Don't know these answers, just thinking of other two-stroke engines and even some four stroke experiences.