Barn Building

[campy]

Four Photos Here:
Photo 1: https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2512&pos=0
Photo 2: https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2512&pos=1
Photo 3: https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2512&pos=2
Photo 4: https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2512&pos=3

I plan on building a barn.
It will be under 24 feet tall according to city ordinances.

I have a bandsaw mill and access to lots of wood.

What dimension should I use for posts?
4x4 or 5x5 or 6x6
The smaller timbers are much easier to work with.
I think the method is post and beam construction.

Attached are some photos of a reinforcement job I am working on.
It is for one of my existing barns that is sagging a bit.

I used 1/2 inch re-bar to hold my corner braces on.
Is this a bad idea?
Looks are not an issue.  I just need it to be strong and to last a long time.
I could also make 1 inch diameter dowels as fasteners.

I would welcome some opinions.
Thanks,
Paul

[Brad_bb]

Welcome Campy,
I haven't seen you on these forums before, so I'm assuming you're a newbie.  I think you'll find here that to most, looks do count.  It just happens to go hand in hand with quality.  As the old saying goes, "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".  That doesn't mean it has to be perfect, but most timberframe or post and beam guys believe in working towards a fairly high standard.  Your work is a reflection of you.  And there's a lot of style to be had in doing a structure/frame well.  It doesn't have to be fancy, but sound, well designed, and finished well.
   I suggest you stick around these forums a bit to see what I mean.  Ask questions.  People here love helping others, and there's a lot of knowledge to be had to save you time, money, frustrations etc.  Learn what timber frame really is.  Consider trying it.  It's not that hard once you understand the basics.  Post and beam is another way to go, but some of us on here feel that that style is no less work than timber frame (mortise and tenon joints).  Keep and open mind so that you can make the best choice.
   Sizing of timbers depends on the specific design of the frame and the loads it will see.  It also depends what material is being used.  Some woods are stronger than others.  Once some basic inputs are known, like those I mentioned, sizing of members can be done using general rules for timber framing.   There are also people on these forums that can consult on a frame design, as well as many other timber framers that could do the same (If going timberframe).
   Your little knee brace appears as though it's 45'd on each end and held in place by the rebar?  If this braced experienced significant load(racking), I'd be concerned that the bearing face would be small - the intersection where the brace meets the rebar.  In a timberframe brace, a large bearing face of the brace meets a bearing face of the post or beam. 
  I'd recommend a few books, perhaps The Timberframe workshop by Steve Chappell.  Or any of Jack Sobons books.  If you have a decent library nearby, see what they have on timberframe.  Sometimes it's two words, but I usually think of it as one word.  This forum is also a good resource for questions and discussions, as is tfguild.org.  The timberframers guild has good discussion forums on their website too.  Get ready to discover a great almost lost art of timberframing.  You can do it.   After you learn a little more, consider taking a 6 day workshop.  They are usually offered in the spring, but sign up early- like by December to assure a place in one.  They are fun and you learn a lot of skills that can be applied to more than just timberframing.

[zopi]

What he said...I have learned a bunch from these guys...and Sobons books are great...also go to google books and under "full view" search for barns, barn building, frame carpentry, and rigging...lotta great old books on there..

maybe one of these days I'll get to build something.

[Brad_bb]

Another option to consider Campy, is re-using an existing barn frame.  There are quite a few available.  One place to look is at
http://www.oldbarnwoodsite.com/old_barns_for_sale_.htm
I'm sure there are local barns available too in your area.  There are those who specialize in barn disassembly and reassembly, repairing anything in the frame that may need it.  100+ year old barns are great to be re purposed and will last another 100+ when kept dry with a proper roof.  Most barns that get dilapidated or are falling down are simply because the roof was not kept up and water got to the structure over time.

[Rooster]

Campy,

I agree with Brad, finding an existing frame saves a lot of time and money.  And if you are able to disassemble it yourself, you can learn how it is built, and then put it back together.  Brad helped us on our last barn raising, and you would be surprized who shows up and works for "food" when it comes to puting up a barn!!

As a  side note, I am formally nominating Brad_bb for the "Jim Rogers Award"...for going above and beyond in his quest to educate and inspire those here on the Forestry Forum!!

Can I get a second on that?  eh?

Rooster

[campy]

Thanks for the great input.
I second the motion.

[shinnlinger]

I would suggest  that using an old frame is not necessarily cheaper...  The local barn recycler gets $20 a foot for their vintage timbers....

What are you using the barn for?  Pole barns are probably the cheapest option if money is your main issue.  Prefab tents are also a pretty economical way to cover your stuff...

On the other hand, a timberframe is a work of art you will be proud of.

[Brad_bb]

I guess the "saves money" thing depends.  If you are paying someone to disassemble and reassemble, it's going to cost more than if you decide to do that job yourself.  It also depends on how good of a scrounger you are in finding a good deal if doing it yourself.  Also depends if you want a specific barn of a specific style and size or if you have some flexibility and the willingness to make mods yourself. 
   Awww Rooster!  Now you're gonna give me a swelled head.  I sometimes think I post too much.  But I do like to share anything I've learned to help get others up to speed and save them time, money, or work through sharing of knowledge.  People on these and other discussion boards have helped me countless times, even if it's as simple as telling me to "just move the strap" on my timber lever.  Thanks for the kind words. 

[campy]

Thanks for all of the careful thought, encouragement and great advise !