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Prospective Portable Sawmill Biz Progress Report

Started by pnyberg, October 29, 2009, 09:26:14 PM

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pnyberg

I apologize in advance for the length of this post...

A brief synopsis of my story to date:  Through some simple twist of fate, I became seriously interested in portable sawmills, and learned that I was to be laid-off at the end of the year at about the same time.  The spark generated by one of these events striking the other, was the idea of leaving the computer programming world after 25 years, and starting a portable sawmill business.  Internet research, including countless hours in the Forestry Forum archives, as well as a few conversations with Schuyler Montgonery, owner/operator of New England Saw and Lumber, convinced me that this was not an entirely crazy idea. And then I convinced my wife.  So, not long ago I ordered a mill, and then through some serendipity, ended up with a significantly upgraded mill for only a little more money.  The mill was delivered to me 2 weeks ago.

During this process, I discovered LogRite.  I've needed a better cant-hook/jack-stand for years, but didn't know where to find one.  The FF showed me the way.  I was astonished to find that LogRite world headquarters was only about 10 miles from my house.  In browsing their web site, I then discovered logging arches.  Now those are cool.  An arch would be useful to me regardless of whether or not I start a business.  So, I bought a Fetching Arch, with all the options, and in the process met Kevin (neslrite) and Tammy (Tamiam) Bantle.

Things have been progressing on multiple fronts.  I've talked with both a lawyer and a CPA about the business.  The talk with the CPA didn't produce much, other than advice to keep track of things in an orderly way, and a bill for $100.  The talk with the lawyer resulted in the formation of an official, registered LLC; CT Logs To Lumber, LLC.  Prior to meeting with the lawyer, I had snagged the internet domain names ctlogstolumber.com and ctlogs2lumber.com.  The helpful Network Solutions web site suggested that I also acquire names that might be common misspellings of my domain name, such as ctlegs2lumber.com.   I decided to pass on that.  Don't go looking for my web site just yet, because it doesn't exist, but I'm working on it.  And, I had some business cards printed.



On the more practical side of things, I've been trying to learn how to use my mill.  When Jeremy and Kyle delivered it, they set it up lickity-split, and I was walked through the process of sawing using two practice logs.  After they left, I sawed up another ugly log to start the process of learning which switch or lever does what.  Then I had to tear down and move the mill.  I didn't keep track of how long my first tear-down took, but it were considerable.  I probably circumnavigated the mill about 37 times in the process.  Having read the forum extensively, I knew about moving the head back and forth to make the process easier.  I don't remember any warning about not moving the head too far back.  Fortunately, by accident, a rear outrigger was still down when I moved the head past the balance point.  So, I was saved from disaster, and in the process I learned where the balance point was, which is all I thought I needed to know to keep from doing this again.



Moving the mill turned out to be not that bad.  My 2007 Toyota Tacoma has the factory towing package, and is rated to pull 6500 lbs.  I'd never pulled a trailer with brakes before, and nervousness about this is one of the reasons that I decided to have the mill delivered, rather than driving 5 hours to Hannibal to fetch it.  But, once the 7 pin connector was connected, everything worked as it should, and using the newly installed brake controller to adjust the pull of the trailer brakes was easy.  I was also concerned about learning to back the trailer, but this turned out to be a pretty easy too.  I think the fact that the trailer is long actually helps, because it doesn't overreact quickly to mistakes, as short trailers tend to do.

Then there was setting the mill up again.  This was close to the mirror image of tearing it down, with another 37 circumnavigations.  I decided that I needed to do a system analysis of the setup and tear-down processes (did I mention 25 years as a computer programmer?).  I went through several iterations of the setup and tear-down procedures, taking notes, making lists, and revising lists.  At the moment, I've got a 36 step setup list, and a 31 step tear-down list.  These are helping me learn to do things in a systematic way.  My last setup took about 15 minutes, which is a significant improvement over my first attempts.

But in the end, it's sawing that matters the most, and there's some work to be done in this regard as well.  I am a slow sawyer.  It's not the process of pushing the head through the log that's the issue.  I think I've got a pretty good handle on listening to the engine and judging how fast I can push.  It's everything before and after that.  I'm pretty confident that this is just a matter of practice, so I've been practicing.

I've got a few logs lying around in the woods behind my house, left behind by the tree guys I had in a few months ago.  I've been pulling some of these out to practice on, which also lets me play with my LogRite Fetching Arch, which is fun, but time consuming.  And, I've got no shortage of other trees that I could cut down to provide practice logs, but that's even more time consuming.  Then, I was presented with another option.

A few days before my mill was delivered, I got a FF PM from Kevin Bantle offering me access to practice logs on his property.  Kevin and Tammy live less than 3 miles from me.  This is an offer that's hard to refuse, so I didn't. 

On Sunday morning, I hitched up the mill and headed out for my first road trip.  It was a gorgeous day.



I arrived without incident, and Kevin directed me up behind his house to his log yard. 

He had a nice whack of logs there, though some had been sitting a while.  There was a pull-around, so I was able to position the machine without much backing up.  There was an established slab pile close by.  Kevin put down a couple of 6x6's for dead-stacking lumber.  He told me to have at it, and went to take care of his chores.

During the next three hours or so, I sawed two logs into 4/4 boards.  The logs scaled out at about 190 bdft total.  I won't be winning any shoot-outs any time soon.  I wasn't really trying to maximize my productivity at this point, but my ham-handedness with log turning in particular is pretty frustrating.  The clamp in-out lever moves up and down, so I can forgive myself for not always remembering that up is in and down is out.  But the clamp up-down lever also goes up and down, and up is up and down is down, but sometimes, I would even get this wrong.  But, I know this will come with time and practice.

After these logs were butchered, Kevin had two smaller diameter logs that he wanted milled into 1x2's.  My first custom sawing order.  There wasn't much room for error.  Kevin helped me get started, after which I thought I was doing alright, but one of the cants ended up with a taper that it wasn't supposed to have.  I don't think Kevin got as many 1x2's as he was expecting.  To top it all off, on the last cut, I kissed the top of the clamp with the blade.  The zing sound that I've read about so often was hard to miss, but there was just a tiny bit of black paint missing.  There must have been a small high spot due to a manufacturing defect, and I have now corrected it.

At that point, Kevin was off again, and I proceeded to pack up my mill.  Things were going fairly smoothly.  I backed up the truck and got the ball just a bit to one side of the trailer hitch.  As is my normal practice, I had moved the head back to the point that the front of the mill was light enough for me to lift it, so that I could shift it a bit onto the ball.  So, I lifted it ... and the head rolled all the way to the rear stop.  Of course, I had raised the rear outriggers, so the tail was on the ground, and the hitch was about 4 feet off the ground.   

I had set up my mill on several locations on my property, but all were more or less level, so lifting the front end a bit didn't give the rail enough pitch to make the head roll.  Here the ground sloped a bit down toward the rear of the mill, so apparently a bit of lift at the front was enough to send the head rolling.

This was certainly an embarrassing turn of events.  Attempts to roll the head back toward the front didn't work.  Attempts to pry up the rear end of the mill using my LogRite cant hook as a pry-bar almost worked, but I didn't have enough hands to also drop an outrigger.  Putting my 160 lbs on the hitch end was almost enough to bring the front end down, but not quite.  I had thrown together a crate of tools for the day that must have weighed about 50 lbs.  I pulled this out of the truck, and threw it onto the hydraulics box.  Now when I stood on the hitch, the front end of the mill would return to earth.  At about this time, Kevin showed up on his tractor to rescue me.  He must have been keeping an eye on me, with good reason.



Since I had the mill close to level at this point I tried to use the controls on the command station to move the head forward.  There was no response.  Kevin discovered that the breaker had been thrown.  He reset it, I moved the head forward, and the excitement was over (though not the embarrassment).

We got the mill connected to the truck, and I finished packing up, and was on my way.  In some respects, it was a mixed day, but at some point Kevin asked the all important question: "Did you have fun?".  Yes I did.

Kevin made an open invitation to leave the mill, or to bring it back whenever I wanted, so unless he changes his mind, I'll be back for more practice.

--Peter
No longer milling

Don K

Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Dan_Shade

you will forget at some point and run the head all the way back without the leg down.

that's when things get fun :)

i've had to jack up the back of the mill so I could run the head back to the front before!

Congrats on everything!
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Dave Shepard

Congratulations! You have done everything in the right order! You are now on your way to becoming a sawyer, not just a mill owner. 8) 8) :) It won't take you too long, and you'll be turning and clamping without even thinking about it. The most common mistake I make is too leave that far toeboard up a little. :( It usually doesn't happen on something that doesn't matter, it's usually an important timber cutting pattern, like the very first log I sawed on Tuesday for the frame I'm cutting. ::) :-X I believe you've got the Accuset 2 with the Command Control, I really like it.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

fishpharmer

CTlogs...er....  I mean pnyberg ;)  Long they may be, I always enjoy reading your posts.  Keep up the good work.   8) 8)
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

WDH

Now that you zinged the clamp, you have been properly initiated into sawyerdom  ;D.  I have enjoyed your posts on this adventure, so keep them coming.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

customsawyer

I enjoy your post very much as well and I will do one better than most and extend a invite to come on down to central ga. I have a bunch of logs you can practice on for weeks if you would like. I can help or leave you to them what ever you wish. This will also give you more practice pulling that mill around. ;D :D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

DGK

Hello Peter,

Thanks for your post. If the milling business takes a while to start bringing in a paycheque, you could always subsidize your income working as a writer. I have followed your posts and find them to be an enjoyable read.

Don't forget to raise your front support prior to driving off as I have done. Not a difficult repair but a mistake that I wouldn't want to make twice.

Good Luck  :)
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

jdtuttle

Great post. The story has a familiar ring to it ;D something about Tom Sawyer & painting a fence ;)
jim
Have a great day

Brucer

When I'm moving the mill, that tail end outrigger doesn't go up unless the safety chain is on the carriage. There's usually enough slack in the chain that I can roll the carriage far enough back to swing the front end around by myself.

I always put a smooth board under the front outrigger when I'm setting up as well. Then when I go to move the mill I can swing the mill from side to side without having to lift the hitch.

Now if only I could remember to unhook the safety chain once I'm set up, before I try running the carriage to the front :(.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Dan_Shade

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

davemartin88

Good story, been there, done that for most of the goofs when I got my new mill earlier this year! I find that having and using a checklist is key to setting up and tearing down my mill. I also leave the rear outrigger partially down until the head is either secured in the travel position when tearing down or at the front of the mill when sitting up. Thanks for sharing the learning curve and best of luck with your business.

zopi

Wait 'til you roll a log off the back of the mill by not putting the stops up...bad enough when you do it on a hyd. mill...really feels stupid on a manual...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

Dan_Shade

it's a lot easier to fix on most manuals than on a hydraulic.

having a log stuck between the frame and the tire is not good!
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Meadows Miller

Gday

Peter I have always liked your posts (you can never have too much info its what you do with it that matters  ;) :D  ) and your well on the rite track with how you are going about things Mate  ;)   ;D ;D 8)

With sawing speed it'll come soon enough  ;)  you will find most of your productivity gains will come from becoming intune with your gear & quicker decision making ,log turning handeling and setting habbits and keeping the saw in the log  ;) ;D 8) Ive seen fast blokes on light duty gear that make the most of every min  ;) and slow blokes on heavy duty mills that will lose min's on every log   ??? ::) so if you stick to the process that you used for your settup your going to be ahead of most blokes before too long Mate  ;) ;D 8) 8)
Ill add sawmilling is very forgiving to making mistakes   a wrong set thats  in grade is fine  ;) ;D but when you have to resaw it again is where it will cost you a good log or time n money  ;)
Dave I feel your pain its usually when your doing somthing that matters  :o :) ::)  it never seems to happen on a case grade log   :D :D I had the same happen to me the other day id just sharpend the saw on the lucas and because im lazy and leave the lapsider att on it full time and you have to swing it over to take the guard of to sharpen the saw  ;) and i left a nice 1/4 in deep angled saw mark down the face of a 8x10" 18' highgrade Ironbark beam worth a $1100 ea  :o :) ::) :( >:( that i was sawing two of for an order but we cut a sliver and glued it in and the customer could,nt even pick it himself either when we finnished it  ;) ;D 8) we all make mistakes  Mate


Zopi ive done it matee and dan's rite about it been easier to fix on a manual mill iwhen i was younger id somtimes flip the log or cant of the mill when id get a bit agressive with the cant hook  ;) :D  :D I ont recon id like to get one jamed inbetween the frame and tyre tho itd be a real pita i reckon to get out  :o :( >:( ::)  ;) :D :D :D


Keep it up Mate and write as much as you wanna Mate  ;) :D ;D 8) 8)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

zopi

Quote from: Dan_Shade on November 01, 2009, 04:40:19 AM
it's a lot easier to fix on most manuals than on a hydraulic.

having a log stuck between the frame and the tire is not good!

I know...but it's more em-bare-assing on a manual...you're doing all that work..and you
re right there...instead of out at the end...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

stonebroke

Sounds like you need a Hi-Lift jack to get the back end back up. they are handy for other things too.

Stonebroke

backwoods sawyer

Most of use can relate to where you are at.
As you start to go exploring those less then level milling sites, be sure to chalk the tires. I was finishing up a long day down in the mountainous part of south county, where finding a level milling site had been a real challenge, so the site was tight as well. It was starting to get dark and the customer had already headed out with the third trailer load of the day to stack it in the barn. I had both tires chalked and when I backed the truck up to the mill I stopped and checked the distance to the ball twice and just needed about 2" more. I released the parking brake and then reset it with out taking my foot off the brake and that allowed the truck to rock back about 3" and bump the end of the mill. When I walked back to see how close I was I found the mill had taken off on its own little journey about 15' down the hill and the tail end of the mill was sticking into the tailing pile. There was no damage to the mill or the lights so no harm no foul. But as those of use that take our mills on the road much can attest to there will be tight spots that you set your mill up in and goat trails to get to the milling site. Always walk the creek crossings before taking the mill across because it dose have a long frame and will drag if the crossing is to steep. As you will find out, a 4x4 is a grate choice for a tow rig.

By the way, that is nice clean business card. Something to consider is quick books pro. It makes all your accounting simple, neat and orderly, and all you have to take to the accountant is a zip-drive. By taking the time to set your business up correctly now, you are saving yourself headaches on down the road.

Good luck on your adventure and keep them long winded post coming.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Dan_Shade

I did one job with the mill left attached to the truck!

I also will hook up the safety chain first if the ground is very sloped. 

I had a guy pull out a wheel chuck once while on a job, and the mill took off.  Gotta watch the "help" at all times.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Meadows Miller

Gday

I spose what your saying there Zopi is that you cant blame the machine Mate  ;) :D  you could get someone else to turn them for you then get up em when they stuff up  ;):D :D ;D Mistakes will be made people will be blamed usually yourself in this game  ;)  :D :D Peter dont get too wound up about little mistakes onsite either and you dont have to tell the costomer about every little thing that dosnt go quite to plan 99% of the time they wouldnt even notice and are happy anyway Mate 

As Backwoods said  ;) ;D I like the business Name and the cards also Top Job Mate  ;) ;D 8) 8)

Dan Do you have to watch your help too  :o  :)   ??? ::) ;) :D :D  thats why i like working on my own some people should'nt be let within 100 yards of a mill site Mate  ;) :D :D ;D

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

Brucer

Quote from: Dan_Shade on October 31, 2009, 02:14:18 PM
Brucer, you have no sense of adventure!

I'd just as soon have my adventures while I'm sawing a log, not while I'm setting up ;D ;D.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

sparks

pnyberg......In your support pack there should be a stick-on cheat sheet on setting up the mill. If you get this and stick in on you control box lid you will have it at a glance. If you can not find it let me know and I'll get you another one.     Thanks
\"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.\" Abraham Lincoln

pnyberg

Quote from: sparks on November 02, 2009, 09:46:39 AM
pnyberg......In your support pack there should be a stick-on cheat sheet on setting up the mill. If you get this and stick in on you control box lid you will have it at a glance. If you can not find it let me know and I'll get you another one.     Thanks

I have the cheat sheet, and have found it useful, but it's somewhat generic, and I didn't find it detailed enough to help me fully analyze the process.  (e.g. It doesn't have a step for "Put rail-side fender in truck".) :)

But I think it will be nice to be able to refer to it once I get my routine established. 

I overlooked the fact that it's a stick-on.

Thanks,
    Peter
No longer milling

pnyberg

Thanks to everyone for all the encouragement and advice.

I confess that I am not able to lift the front of mill with the head back as far as the safety chain will allow.  But since my front outrigger is an FAO, it's easy to get it to do the lifting.  I'll add the "smooth board under the front outrigger" step to my setup procedure to help with side-to-side hitch adjustments. 

I've used Quicken for personal finances for years.  I've upgraded to Quicken Home & Business, and will give that a try as I start up.  If that proves not to be up the task, then QuickBooks would be the next step.

I went back to Kevin's log yard on Saturday, and milled a couple more logs. 

The first was a maple in good condition, but with some sweep.  I had the horns up, and was working at making a flat side.  I was on my second cut, still sawing air in the middle, when I stalled the engine about 6" from the far end of the log.  The flitch I was sawing tapered from nothing up to about 14", and I apparently didn't drop my feed rate enough as the width of the board increased.  I turned the autoclutch off, and restarted the engine.  As soon as I engaged the autoclutch, the engine stalled again.  Now I start wondering if there's something else going on. 

I decided to back out of the cut, so that I could investigate further.  Then I remembered that I hadn't put any wedges for opening kerfs into my crate of tools.  But I did have a couple of chisels, which did the trick.  I used a battery powered circular saw to saw across the flitch where the kerf ended, and when I pulled the flitch off the log, I found ... wood.  DanG, no metal for me today.

I stated up the mill, and finished the cut with no problem.  I'm guessing that backing up just a smidge would have been enough to allow me to restart.

I got about 100 bdft out of the maple, which Kevin thought well enough of that he took the boards to his barn for drying.  And I got an unknown quantity of 1x2's out of the middle of a pretty punky pine log. 

I am getting better with my log handling, and with planning out my cuts using the accuset. And, I didn't dump my mill while hooking it up to the truck, so we'll call the day a major success.

--Peter
No longer milling

stonebroke


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