What style mill is best for cutting odd shape logs

[boatman]

I work on wooden commercial boats and yachts and I am interested in buying a mill I can cut compass timbers, knees and breast hooks with.  I would like to be able to cut @36" wide.  Not large logs but curved sections from logs @20"or less.  I have seen woodmizers used for this with a wooden rotating table to move the timber through the blade.  What other options are there?

[Don K]

I can't answer your questions boatman, but I would like to welcome you to the forum.

Don

[nas]

Welcome boatman

you may want to look at the Peterson or lucas mill with a slabber.

Nick

[shinnlinger]

Hi,

I'd like to see a picture to get my ideas flowing, but I think you need a bandsaw mill (not necessarily a woodmizer) to do it as you can curve some with that.  

And welcome....

[Tom]

Most of those who cut weird shaped slabs and timbers from mishappened logs use a large chainsaw with a very long bar and leveling jigs.  One such guy, and the  only one I've met personally, ran/runs Toms Cypress.  His business was down US-301 South of Starke.   He bought rewood burls in the North East, shipped them to Florida where he sawed them and shipped them in containers to his markets in Europe.

I'll be!!   He has a website now.

http://www.tomscypress.com/

[boatman]

I put a couple of pictures on my profile.  not all of them loaded, but a couple to give you an idea of what I need.  There are very few straight timbers on a ship/boat. Air dried, grown timbers(naturally curved) of suitable size are hard to find.  I would like to cut what I need and then start a business supplying commercial wooden vessels and yachts with grown timbers.  This will be a retirement business, I am a recently tall ship captain.  It seems the 60% of my job was maintaining the old boats.  I am familiar with building and repair of these timber frame(boat) structures and now I would like to start supplying what I had such a difficult time finding when I was the buyer.  What equipment do you recommend starting with?  I prefer to be a one man show.




compliments of Tom

[Tom]

I don't know from whence you hail, but live oak from here has been used for that.  I think most were handsawn or hewed, over the years.  A bandsaw would be a good tool if the logs weren't too large.  I can see where a swing mill might be the better saw, if you were cutting just one piece from a log.   Unless you build your own, or buy something special, most bandmills max out with a 36" throat.

There is one mill for sale on the forum right now that would saw the widths that you need.  It is one built by Fla._Deadheader and his son.   It is a Wood Mizer copy and I think it maxes out in the 40 inch range.  You will find it in the commerce section under "For Sale".   I've seen it and it works.

A bandsaw mill would allow you to get multiple pieces from the same log.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,39191.0.html

[DanG]

Welcome Boatman.   This sounds really interesting!  I'm thinking a chainsaw mill would be good for this unless you want to spend a whole lot of money.  I'm wondering if maybe something like an Alaskan could be modified to run on a curved track, so you wouldn't need such a long bar and chain.

Where are you located, anyway?

[boatman]

I live in South West michigan now.  I am clearing a couple of acres and I have a growing stack of cherry and white oak logs.  I called a local sawyer in august and he was busy and to call him back next July and remind him that I called him in August.      Thats when I started looking into getting a small mill for myself.

[Nomad]

Hi Boatman.  And welcome to the Forum!

     An Alaskan mill will certainly cut the sides of your curved timbers.  I believe Will Malloff addresses this in his book "Chainsaw Lumbermaking."  I've done it and it's not particularly difficult, although slow.  The setup is time consuming 'cause it's got to be right on the money for the first cut.

     The hard part will be cutting the inside and outside of the curves. 

                                                                  Bill

[bandmiller2]

Boatman,probibly a swing or band to get close then a large old table bandsaw for the curves and notches.Nothing with a circular saw wants to go around curves.If you go with a bandmill probibly a manual mill would be better with as narrow a band as you can find,its scarry with power up and down to try to taper things.Frank C.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Welcome to the FF.
We have sawn crooked logs, for a guy in Fruitland Fl., that repairs wooden boats, mostly old Chris Craft Runabouts, and a few sailboats.
  We built the oversized Band Mill, like a WoodMizer, so we could saw big Cypress logs. We did find this curved tree, that measured over 36" wide, and had to maneuver the log through the opening in the saw head, to produce these table slabs, at 3" thick.

 

  We recently went through the mill, and changed out bearings and whatever needed fixing. New electric motor for the log clamp, and new cables for the drive motor. Mill is electric-hydraulic, and, road ready.  : ;D

 

[stonebroke]

Hudson makes a mill that will cut 52 inches and they will modify it it if you want.

Stonebroke

[Larry]

Years ago there were "ship saws" made expressly for shipyards.  They were 36" and larger bandsaws made by Fay & Egan, Tannewitz, along with others.  Years ago I sawed coffee table slabs on a Navy surplus Tannewitz...part of the bottom wheel was in a pit and it was a step or two up to the table.  I would guess it weighed close to 5 tons or so.  Can't remember the size other than it was the biggest bandsaw (other than sawmills) that I ever saw.

A big Tannewitz, with attachments would probably be the ultimate but they are going to be hard to find, with the need for a lot of restoration work.  36" Crescent bandsaws are easy to find and cheap...at least they were before the price of iron went up.  You would have to customize it for your needs.

[raycon]

A ships saw (Mystic Seaport,CT)




A pretty popular tamarack knee harvester out of Maine  used a band mill with a custom sled to feed the knee rough stock manually.  Locked /clamped the head in place versus moving the head over the log/cant. 

Milling boat grade lumber. You'll want a mill that can help produce lumber with minimal grain run out (Steam bending stock, planking stock,etc). Easiest way I found to produce  this is on a band mill with toe adjustment (hydraulic or manual adjustment).

[zopi]

Pretty much what these guys said...GB alaskan with a Stihl MS-660 or 880 class saw is the easiest way to start...the alaskan will wear you out though....the noise, and vibration alone will set you back...but if you aren't working on a production basis..the mill is a cople hudred bucks gets you 33-34 inches of throat, and there are deals on the saws if you look...MS 660 goes around a grand new...add a big bandsaw to it to shape the in and out-side curves...

used to be great big band mills around...turn of last century...bloody things had 8 and ten foot wheels...

I like the idea of the swing mill for the purpose...big $$$ into them though..

[Bruce_A]

Take a four poster push type bandsaw on wobble wheels at one end like a grocery cart, lay log on slab.  Follow curve in log llike driving down the road.  Or lay log on a rolling table and pull thru the saw.  Either bandsaw or large chainsaw mill.

[Tom]

The articulated bandsaw

[zopi]

The articulated bandsaw

Want. No reason...just want.

In addition to the post above, I don't know where you are located, but if you are on the eastern seaboard, I have an 18 or 20" bandsaw...old green powermatic, a big honkin powermatic planer, and an alaskan sawmill I am willing to part with...minus the saw...nobody lays a paw on my 660...hafta think a minute what I want for each piece, but
pm me if you are interested...

[shinnlinger]

Zopi,

You don't happen to have a model 81 20" powermatic do you?  Great saw and is what I had in mind when this post started.

Boatman,

I can see mounting rollers or clamping a rolling conveyor on a band mill deck and sliding the stock through the throat as a reasonable way to go.  Is there anything wrong with steam bent timbers?  I'm thinking a turkey fryer, a steam box and some jigs and you could be in production pretty cheap and easy to what ever specs someone wants....

Another idea would be get a bandmill head and mount it in the middle of a bunch of roller casters upside down.  The casters would have to be heavy duty, you would need alot, and they would have to be mounted on a serious deck, but this arrangement would let you slide virtually anything through it fairly easily...  Linn mills out in Oregon sell bandsaw kits that go up to 36 or 40 inches and might be a good basis for a custom saw.

[boatman]

Thank you for all the replies.  This has given me a lot to think about.  I am the kind of person that prefers to keep things simple.  If I hadn't already tried it before, I would use a hand saw.  That didn't last long.

A chain saw mill seems to be the way to go for the larger curved pieces I will be working with, and a manual mill for the rest.  As I will be supplying the air dried, grown timbers and not doing the fit and finish, a ship saw or that nifty Dario contraption is not needed.  I am leaning towards the CSM, adding later a manual band mill. 

The Swing mills have a great slabbing attachment and the surface planer option could add  some value to the end product.  How do the different mills compare safety wise?  I have spent allot of time with chain saws and understand CSM safety issues, but with the others I am unsure. 

[woodsteach]

Welcom to the forum, and to add to the confusion I'll recommend a swing mill as well.

I have a Brand X swingmill and have cut several curved posts with it by double cutting and allowing the blade collar to follow the curve of the log.  Slab off the top and then either set the depth of cut and slab off the bottom or flip the cant if you'd rather.

woodsteach

[Ianab]

How do the different mills compare safety wise?  I have spent allot of time with chain saws and understand CSM safety issues, but with the others I am unsure. 

Well anything that involves fast moving bits of steel and large pieces of wood can injure you.

But the modern portable sawmills, both band and swingblade mills are pretty safe. There have been some threads lately on bands breaking, and where you shouldn't be standing as the broken bits are thrown out the sawdust chute.

Likewise the swingmill manyfacturers suggest you wear some protective gear as bits of bark, loose knots and assorted small chunks of wood can be thrown around. Not super dangerous, but not something you want hitting your shins or eye. Chainsaw helmet and chaps suggested.

I would also suggest a swingblade mill, even without a slabber. I imagine you will be cutting most of the pieces with pith centered? So you just take off the top slab, flip it over and saw off the other side. Maybe you will recover some usefull boards as you whittle things down, or have some bendy firewood.

Ian

[boatman]

I sat down in the barn with my wife a few minutes ago while she was milking the goats and we discussed my interest in buying a mill..... and we ended up disagreeing about what size mill and scale of operation to go for.  I expected that.  But not this.  She wants me to get the biggest equipment we can afford!!!...... I didn't know how to react.  Luckily she had to leave for a few hours and I have some to to collect myself.....


What it comes down to is she wants the mill to have the capacity to support us if it ever comes to that.  Right now I am temporarily retired by the Army due to injuries from iraq, and there's a slim chance that could end after 5 years.  Looks like its time to start looking at hydraulics.  Any suggestions?  Or maybe I should just start a whole new thread.

[zopi]

NAhh..this one will work...besides you'd just confuse me...

Thanks for your service, and I'm sorry you are TDRL..I'm a Navy Chief, couple years from retirement....

The CSM will work you to death..I recommended it based on limited production...I don't know if your disasbility will make a difference..like I said before, I got wore out on the CSM quick..

I went throught the same thing with my wife, she convinced me to get a bigger mill than I was after...and she was right...I'd hate to try to support us on an LT-15 though..

Here is a thought on the swingmills though..most of the chassis I've seen, Lucas or peterson, could be retrofitted in various ways with a router or sander...perfect for rabbeting for the hood ends of planks in a stem or keel...

[DanG]

You have obviously married a gem of a woman there, Boatman! 8) 8)  In light of all that, the advice given may change radically. :D

You will need to consider how large the market is for the grown timbers, as well as what your supply of material would be like.  Lots of research is in order there.  The ship timbers would make a great niche, but if you're to make a living with a mill, you would need additional markets.  Other markets could be served with the same equipment, though.  The ability to cut things that others cannot is a very attractive, and possibly lucrative way to make it in this business.

I don't know what design and fabrication skills you might have, but you may be a candidate for building your own unique mill.  I've had this fantasy about building a big honkin' automated chainsaw mill for a while now, but I know I'll never actually do it.   I can see no reason at all that you could not rig up something to pull the mill through the log so you don't have to bend over and push it.  I can also see no reason that it has to be powered by a lightweight 2-cycle engine.  The swinger folks power their chain slabbers with 4 -cycle power, and they work great.  The hydrostatic drive unit on my MD mill is available from Bailey Hydraulics for about 800 bucks, and it would do the job perfectly.

[Tom]

You mean like this one, Dang?
http://www.lmsaws.com/chainsawlog.htm

[reberly]

Hi Boatman,
I have a slabbing mill and a bandmill an I am located in Southwest Michigan.  If you would like to come see them in operation, I often cut bent logs and large crotch cuts.  My site Eberlywoods.com has some photos of some of the crotch cut table tops I've made.  Call me if you would like to visit, my cell is 269-362-3196
Rich