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How do you guys saw BIG logs????

Started by shinnlinger, October 25, 2009, 09:39:38 AM

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shinnlinger

Hi,

Yesterday I cut a 34" log on my Turner which really likes things no bigger than mid 20's.  I can squeeze 29" between the uprights, but the guide needs to be removed for anything more than 26"(whick I didn't realize intill I got the stick on the mill).  Yes I got it done, but I don't know If I will do it again.  I used a Lull telehandler as my log roller and it worked well, but I still had to roll the log 7 times and Mr. Lull isn't mine.

I think it might make sense to rip a large log in half and deal with the two halves seperatly, but I dont do enough to warrant a big saw/bar with rip chain. 

Do any of you have any other ideas???  Or even if you rip a log, how do you saw the halves? 
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Dan_Shade

if it's an oak or sycamore log, I would split it in half, and then quarter it. 

if it's something other than oak, I'd figure out if I wanted to quarter it, or if I would get out the big alaskan to take a slab or two off until it would fit on the mill.

Another trick is to use a "hi-lift" or "handyman" jack to roll logs if you can't grunt it with a cant hook.

Big logs are tough to work up.

Some folks split them with wedges and hydraulic jacks, some folks will bore cut and bust it with gunpowder.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

backwoods sawyer

How you tackle them big logs has a lot of variables like:
Is part of the log Junk?
What are you wanting to make out of it? Slabs? 1x4’s?
Therefore, you pretty much have to assess each of the over sized logs differently.
I have yet to remove a guide to make a cut. What some of us do is to make a horizontal and vertical cut to clear a path for the guide. Another option is to take as much as you can off several sides, whether you make it octagon, or hexagon dose not matter just as long as the wood is gone, some call this gun barreling and it does require turning the log a lot.

As far as splitting the log in half, it is not a requirement to have a big saw with a big bar with ripping chain, that just makes it easier. You can split a big log with a small saw even if it will not reach half way thru the log, by cutting from both sides and if it is still holding together cut a notch for a bottle jack in the end and jack it apart. There are no hard and fast rules that say you cannot cut the log into thirds if that is what suits you.

My first over sized log was an 8’ Oak that had severe butt swell and branch swell, the smallest part was in the middle of the log and it was 42” and 36” is supposed to be the limit on my mill. I was out in a stockyard on a side hill with no support equipment. I trimmed on that log on the ground. Then rolled it over onto the loading arms and trimmed some more. Then loaded it on the mill and trimmed some more, by then it was looking pretty round. I had to cut notches for the guides on the fist four cuts. I struggled with turning it each time as the chain turner would not come up high enough to get a good bite until I took a few passes with the mill and the log wanted to walk forward of the back dog.  Then I came to a spot where I could not get another cut and it would not turn because it still had one side that was hanging up. So I unloaded it, trimmed some more and put it back on the mill and made lumber. I had about four hours into that log before I got one board out of it. The rest of the log only took about half an hour and I was putting the mill back into travel mode.  
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Kansas

We used to split them with a chainsaw, trim them, etc. Its time consuming and doesn't result in much lumber cut per hour. Easiest way is find someone who has a swing mill and hire them to cut them down until you can handle the rest. You might be able to find one that would change out work. You can cut wide boards; a swinger can't, or not easily.

DanG

I have a pretty easy way of handling logs that are too big for me.  I use one of the phrases, "I'm sorry" or "No thanks", whichever is most appropriate.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Dave Shepard

On logs that size, 34" to 40", I will saw off as much swelling as I can, if it's a butt log. That really helps. Then I take a slab and boards until I have guide issues, then I will rip out a piece for the guide to travel through. The more I can get off on the first face, the easier it is to turn on a manual mill. I've had a couple that I had to slot for the guide on the second face as well. You can also take small bites, and turn just a little, making an octagon. After you've been all the way around, you should have a fairly cylindrical log. Then you can start making boards. There is sure a lot of turning to be done. I had a couple of big logs to make into wide (24") flooring. We had the Alaskan out for some 34' beams, so we squared to adjacent sides of the log. That way I had a flat on the rails of the mill, and also against the back stop. I've had logs on the manual mill that took 4-5 man hours ( three guys) to get into a squared configuration. I can split most any big log that I deal with into quarters in about an hour (one guy).

Some where I've got a thread called "How to cut 400 feet an hour on a manual mill". The first hour, I think I cut 50 board feet, the second hour, I made about 800 board feet of 18"-24" flooring. The next log was something like 9 hours for 900 feet. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

treecyclers

Depending on species, I have eyeballed a slice or two off the top and side to get the log to be compatible with my mill throat.
MY workhorse saw is a Stihl 460 with a 20" bar, and that's usually plenty to get the job done. No need for monster saws...
We even cut a 72" walnut (what a monster that was) and quartered it to get it on the mill.
I wake up in the morning, and hear the trees calling for me...come make us into lumber!

Ironwood

Got access to dynamite?  ::)

  I would just free hand rip it. Throw a 2x4 on the top as a guide (helps me anyway). Then if she just aint quite there I spear it with the forks and let the weight pull the remaining apart.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

tyb525

With my mill, anything bigger than about 26" is a big log :D I find it more stressful cutting oversize logs.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

SwampDonkey

Quote from: tyb525 on October 25, 2009, 02:13:11 PM
With my mill, anything bigger than about 26" is a big log :D I find it more stressful cutting oversize logs.

On you, or the mill? :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

tyb525

Myself, my limited equipment, and my mill :D
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

WDH

Like Tyb, I get stressed even thinking about cutting a 42" diameter log on my LT15 :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

customsawyer

When you do alot of it you start to like it and the small ones become less of a pleasure. ;D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

caver

I could have used some of these suggestions a few weeks ago.
;D
My loader (20hp Kioti) won't lift what was calculated as a 1500lb log. I had to push it up the ramps a little at a time.
Then I had to trim some junk off and learn some of the stuff posted in this thread the hard way.
Trying to turn it involved my neighbor coming by and offering to help. I haven't seen him since that day  :D
I did drop a case of beer at his doorstep the following week I was at my farm.
Baker HD18

moonhill

I like big logs.  They are a struggle but worth the effort. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

bandmiller2

If your trying to put beans in the pot know the size you can handle and avoid any larger.If your a glutton for punishment and enjoy a challenge have at the huge ones,you can always trim a little at a time and end up with a pile.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

davemartin88

For those of you that use chain saws to cut down a large log, do you use ripping chain when you try to split a log in half or some other type of modified chain?

coastlogger

Ive ripped a lot and never owned a ripping chain. I believe the time saved in cutting with a ripping is fairly minimal. Just file a bit more right angle to bar and take lots off rakers seems to work.To quarter,I put a 4x4 on top of log, climb up and follow the 4x4 with the saw about an inch away from it. When done, go to each end of log and follow cut down. This gives a reference point for cutting once youve rolled log over. Roll log 180, repeat procedure. Be *DanG careful log does not come in half while youre up there!Restrain with a strap, machine, blocking etc.
clgr

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: coastlogger on October 26, 2009, 07:38:11 PM
To quarter,I put a 4x4 on top of log, climb up and follow the 4x4 with the saw about an inch away from it. When done, go to each end of log and follow cut down. This gives a reference point for cutting once youve rolled log over. Roll log 180, repeat procedure. Be *DanG careful log does not come in half while youre up there!Restrain with a strap, machine, blocking etc.
I use the same chain filed the same way as for cross cutting and I still pull out long stings that tend to plug up the discharge of the saw. A chalk line will not work as well as a board laid out as a reference because you will have to stop and wipe the log off to find it, but it will work in a pinch.
The point that coast logger makes about not being on top of the log when it comes apart is a very good one. Some logs will slowly open up and others will pop apart very fast. Making the final cuts from the end will keep you out of harms way but stay alert.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

shinnlinger

HI,

NOw to the second half of my question, How do you guys saw the halves?  Do you lay the semi flat sawed edge on the deck (which would still probably be too wide) or do you set it against the stops, take a pass to square the edge/remove material, flip, repeat, then lay it down on the deck, take a pass to give an opening cut, flip and then saw as "normal" 

What did I just type????
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

coastlogger

I usually do them with chainsaw seeing as how Im all geared up with it from splitting  the log.The loading and securing of a half log on the saw bed is often more trouble than its worth I.S.T.M.Depends on how big they are.Smaller halfs are easier to load/secure etc.
clgr

Mad Professor

Anybody using a logosol mill , inverted, for big stuff?

I've got the mill and a 45" white ash (160 growth rings) waiting.

backwoods sawyer

Stand the halves up. You can take a shallow cut or a deep cut or several shallow cuts from there.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

ohsoloco

If it's a huge log I have to quarter it to saw on my Norwood (like the 44" diameter sycamore I cut a few years ago).  Otherwise, I just use my chainsaw to rip some of the sides off, and if necessary I'll notch out for the guides and skim some off the top.  The blade on my mill only goes up to about 24", and then there's about 8" of room in there between the blade and the bottom of the "engine frame".  So if it's really too big, then if I were to saw one half, I'd end up taking a big chunk off on the first pass anyway, and probably have to trim some off before I started the cut  :-\ 

After skimming and notching I cut off as much as I can on the first face to try and lighten up the log (yeah right).  Wouldn't want to mess with trying to load and clamp half a log.

customsawyer

I stand the half up and then take to cutting on it but I do have the advantage of backhoe with a thumb on it so it makes it alot easier to get a hold of.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

moonhill

My log bunks are removable I often will set the log down into the track system with a bunk/clamp on either end, taking a shallow cut off the top, where as it it was sitting on the bunks it would be 7" or so higher and I would have to take a much thicker first cut.  I really like this feature on my mill.  The cross ties between the side rails are 10' apart so I can do this with logs up to this length.  If they are tapered I sit the small end on a cross tie to even the log out, a bunch of shims here and there.

Standing a half cut up is difficult, I have never tried 1/2ing or 1/4ing a large log, through and through is how I deal with them.  In the case of quarter sawing I take large slabs off and them and orient these slabs to gain the proper orientation for quarter sawn stock.

Tim 
This is a test, please stand by...

ljmathias

When I had my manual LT30, I cut several logs too big for the mill, using most of the techniques already described.  And I would take a half a log and try positioning on the mill with my FEL, holding it in place till I could get the old manual clamp locked on it (what a pain!).  Sometimes dangerous things would happen- log would fall over, sometimes off the back of the mill which created real problems in tight quarters, and sometimes just enough that my cut wouldn't be square but I was anxious just to get it chopped down some.  Course, the positive side is all that quarter and rift sawn lumber that you can pull off pretty quickly, at least till you get down about a third and want to flip the odd shaped half a log over... that takes muscle and care, only one of which I still have much of...

I think a half a big log is one of the most difficult things to load and handle on a mill, so be very, very careful- crushed fingers take a long time to heal (don't ask).

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

SwampDonkey

Quote from: ljmathias on October 29, 2009, 05:44:50 AM
crushed fingers take a long time to heal (don't ask).

Some parts of them fingers don't grow back. You'll only do it once as I say. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

backwoods sawyer

To help stand up the halves you can snap a line along one side and take a few inches off so that the half will have a flat surface to stand up on making it somewhat more stable while clamping.
With the big halves it is not just the fingers that can get damaged is short order. So be safe about what ever you try. If you are not feeling safe then it would be best to try something different, like splitting the half in half.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

jimparamedic

You could get a cirular mill to square the cants if you cut alot of big log then move to the band mill  If you do One or Two on occasion then you could do as the od timers and square two side so the log fit 

pineywoods

I use the "gun barrel approach on my woodmizer..cut off a slab, rotate just a bit, cut off another until I get it down to a manageable size. Not a very good technique on a manual mill, hydraulic turner sure does help...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

WDH

Quote from: pineywoods on October 30, 2009, 08:22:09 PM
Not a very good technique on a manual mill, hydraulic turner sure does help...

Piney,  just thinking about that makes my back hurt  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

pineywoods

Quote from: WDH on October 30, 2009, 08:49:07 PM
Quote from: pineywoods on October 30, 2009, 08:22:09 PM
Not a very good technique on a manual mill, hydraulic turner sure does help...

Piney,  just thinking about that makes my back hurt  :).

Number one reason for my home-made hydraulics. I'd like to see some of you lt15 owners put mine on an lt15. No changes to the mill, everything bolts on,just have to raise it up off the ground about 18 inches. Donk was beginning to think about it, but he found a better solution.  ;D
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

WDH

Yes, that Don K is enterprising  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

davemartin88

Thanks for the feedback on the ripping chain- doesn't sound like it's worth the trouble. Using a board to mark your line makes good sense- I tried once using a line on the log itself and as others said, spent more time looking for the line than sawing. Thanks again.

Magicman

Messing with those "Too Big" logs really isn't worth the trouble, but I find myself never turning them down.  I guess I'm a sucker for wanting to find out what is inside of them.  It's really only BAD if it's a butt cut and and you get half way in and hit metal.  Then it's a wedge and old sawblade to back out.... :(
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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