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Heart Pine   ( viewer discretion advised)

Started by Fla._Deadheader, September 13, 2003, 03:21:00 PM

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Fla._Deadheader

   There have been a lot of questions asking "What is Heart Pine". There has been good info posted explaining it. Here are some pics of "REAL" ::) Heart Pine. Us here in the deep south, refer to it as "Fat lightered". Look closely at the resin.
   I couldn't get the pics I really wanted, but, the board is more resin than wood.  Took 5 minutes per cut, not including scraping the blade every 6 inches or so. You can tell how often we stopped forward motion by the intervals of "blade scores" on the boards. Ran full water and still scraped the resin.
  The wood was hosed and scraped with a putty knife to remove the sawdust. First time we ever sharpened a putty knife on a board. It had a "gritty" sound, like scraping sandpaper. The resin is HARD as concrete.
   The resin makes the wood seem transparent.
   The customer was taking it right to a friend that has a planer, to get it surfaced. Wish I could have went with him. Then again, Planer knives, throwing bits of steel, might not be pretty. ::) ::)
   This log laid out in a field for YEARS. Notice the lack of sapwood. There was probably 1-2 inches of sapwood when this log hit the ground.









   When we finished, the boards were nearly as smooth as glass ::) ::) ;D


All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Tom

Ah-h-h-h-h Yes-s-s-s-ss! As Bob Wills would have said.
That's fat liter alright.  Don't smoke within100 ft of it or it'll blow you into next week. :D  I think it only takes a hot day to catch it on fire :D    .........an tha's the truth!  Plhggg-g--g

woodhaven

Richard

Fla._Deadheader

   That wood is not even wet. We have some scraps of anyone would like a small piece to play with. DON'T light it without extreme caution. ;D :o
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

dail_h

   Cut a lot of that when I was to the flooring  mill.Plum buggar ta saw,but we sold it faster than I could cut it. Always told the customems not to try to sand it: they always called and said  WE CAIN'T SAND THIS STUFF, Shore is purty tho. If it was hot when I was sawing,the resin smell would burn ma eyes,I hated the stuff
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
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Singing The Song Of Circle Again

woodhaven

Yea I'll take a little bit. How about 200 -1"x12"x14'.
Richard

Tom

You'd have to have a padded wallet if I was the one cutting it for you Woodhaven.

Let me see now......    200 feet at $35 a foot and 12" premium of $10 a foot .. hmmmm that's $45 a foot and $10 a foot for XP (extra profit :D}  that's $55 a foot for a grand total of $11,000 plus shipping and handling.   Prices subject to change.  A 110% non-refundable, down-payment in advance required.  Delivery upon completion. ;D :D

woodhaven

Dang Tom,
You are a hard man to deal with. You forget I'm just a poor country boy.  
Richard

Tom

Yeah, me too. We don't know much about dealing way down here.  Let me see.........    Maybe I could cut you some slack on the S&H.  :D

woodhaven

Richard

Tom


hiya

I think years ago they would split it in about 1/2 inch X 1/2 inch tie them in small bundles, hang them in the attic to dry, then use them for torches at night..
RichardinMd.

Tom

That could be.  We still use little chips to get a fire started.  A fair sized hunk will start a pile of land clearing debris too.  No Tires 8)

woodhaven

Hey I just checked the map Tom and we are not that far apart. Soooo how about you and FDH get together and give me a family discount.
He is just fooling about that Pine anyway it's just shiney from all that swamp juce.
Richard

Fla._Deadheader

  If ya remember, I stated that it laid out in a FIELD for many years. Swamp Juice ??? ???   BTW, Tom is my official Broker for "Heart Pine", so, ya hafta buy through him for orders over "sample" sizes.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Jeff

Woodhaven did you lose some kin in a swamp one time? You seem to have an adversion to it. Tom took me into the  swamps of north florida and south georgia, and just like the cedar swamps of upper michigan, they are places I love.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Norm

That is real pretty wood Fla_D, now seemins since I'm from up north I have to ask. What makes heart pine so expensive? I like the looks of it, what kind of things are made from it?

Tobacco Plug

QuoteI think years ago they would split it in about 1/2 inch X 1/2 inch tie them in small bundles, hang them in the attic to dry, then use them for torches at night..

At Colonial Williamsburg they have these copper wire and wrought iron kind of bowls, the wire as the bowl and the wrought iron straps to make a frame that holds the wood.  These are on iron poles which are set in the ground.  Kind of makes a colonial street light.  Also, people would use them as a substitute for candles or oil lamps in colonial times.
How's everybody doing out in cyberspace?

Tobacco Plug

QuoteAlso, people would use them as a substitute for candles or oil lamps in colonial times.

I mean that people would use the wood as a substitute for candles or oil lamps, not the copper and iron frames!
How's everybody doing out in cyberspace?

Tom


Tom

Hey Norm, can I answer about the Heart Pine?

It's difficult to answer without writing a book but:

Heart Pine is the heart wood of Southern Yellow pine. Specifically Long Leaf, Slash and Loblolly pines.  

Long Leaf was the best heart-wood producer but its population has decreased since the 1800's because of diminishing practices of burning the woods and because it was the premium saw timber of the day.  Many times it's heartwood was all but a couple of inches of the trunk of the tree.  Sawmills prided themselves in selling Heart Pine boards which were all or mostly heart wood.  It was prized everywhere for its rot resistance, insect resistance and hardness.  It was strong and used for large beams in warehouses, pilings under buildings, floor joists and flooring.

The sapwood of the trees was softer and not rot or insect resistant at all. It was sold as an inferior product for applications such as cabinet carcasses and furniture, boxes and shipping crates and the like.

Today it is seldom that you find a SYP log with half or more heart.  Most of what we revere is, as I've described before, "Streak-o-Lean".  Thats where the strip of heartwood in the board is bordered on each side by strips of the creamy white sapwood.

In comparison, I've resawed old-building beams that were 8 X 18 and 100 percent heartwood.

Now you get into the variations of heartwood.  Heartwood is deadwood in a living tree that the tree uses for support and stiffness.  It still carries fluids for much of the life of the tree but eventually the resins crystallize and seal the passage-ways in the heartwood. When the tree is cut, much of the sap/resin that is being carried in the heartwood will run out of the end of the log or boards just like the sap runs out of the sapwood.  Not being as fluid, not all runs out and leaves the wood with a red color which darkens with age.  Because it is loaded with left-over resins, it is difficult for woodworkers to finish. It gums up saw blades, planer knives, sandpaper and drill bits.  It causes the wood to be brittle and makes it difficult to drive fasteners without pre-drillng.  The resins will flow as temperature rises causing it to bubble up under finishes.  You may have heard the term "setting the Pitch".  That is a Kiln term where the temperature of the wood is raise above 160 degrees, and held there until the volatile fluids evaporate from the wood.  That cures it from running sap at lower temperatures.

The part of the heartwood that contains the crystallized resins is called "Fat lighter", "Fat", "lighter'd" or "Fat wood" in the south,  It is so highly inflammable that exposure to a match flame will ignite an entire stump. It burns with such voracity that black smoke pours off of the wood because the fuel is being vaporized faster than it will burn.  A similar scene can be created by igniting paper soaked in diesel oil.

This "Fat Lighter" has varying degrees of crystallized resin in it.  That which has the most has an appearance of polished glass when cut with a blade.  A saw chips through it rather than taking off curls of sawdust but the surface is so hard that it looks like it was doused with water. The  Resins will melt as a saw blade passes through the kerf and re-crystallize immediately after exiting the log causing excessive "gumming".  The saw blade grows in size from this resin until it fills the kerf and friction causes heat which increases gumming.  The drag of the blade in the wood stresses motors and the blade will lose its ability to cut straight.

Woodworkers suffer the same plight as sand paper fills up with resins, planer blades become coated  and glue fails to adhere.

The beauty of the wood is in the color and hues.  It is a deep red-brown and the surfaces look as if they are made of glass.  While difficult to finish, once finished it is hard, warm colored and makes excellent flooring.  

In today's market it is valued as much for its age and having been recycled than for  the wood itself.  Customers value the nail holes, cracks, variable colors of grain in the red and its rarity.

Many of these beams are used for accent as open beams in new homes without any refinishing.  The fact that it came from an old building is enough to warrant demand and High prices.

The high prices are directly attributable to the Rarity of Heart Pine and its being difficult to machine.  Its uses today are mostly in flooring and exposed ornamental beams.

That's kinda it in a nutshell. :)

biziedizie

  Harold I want....no I need.....no I just have to have a piece of that wood :) I just need a little of it to make a wooden pen out of it. If you send me  5 blanks that are 6" long and about 1 1/4" x 1 1/4" I will make two pens out of them and I will send you one of them 8) If the wood is dry enough it would make a very cool pen :)

   Steve

Jeff

You must have big nuts.

DanG that dont sound right. :D  Great post Tom
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Texas Ranger

Humm, a pen made of fat pine could be used for an emergency road side flare.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

biziedizie

  Don is this wood still a fire hazard even when it's dry??? I have never heard of and have never used it :P It sure looks pretty though :)

  Tom that was an interesting read :)

   Steve (very confused at the moment ::))

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