Nailing in green wood

[stumpy]

If I nail up some green wood, say pine or oak,  as the wood dries and shrinks, will it shrink tight around the nail or shrink away from the nail?

[beenthere]

Across the grain, it will get tighter. Along the grain it will stay the same.

[Jasperfield]

If it's a hardwood it will likely crack/split near the nail.  However, It might not.

The old barns & sheds here were built (from 1910-1945) with chestnut, poplar, hemlock, & pine. Where nails were used, they were much larger diameter nails than we'd use today.

Everything, I believe, was built with green wood; And about 15% of the nailed boards split somewhat. Most did not.

I don't know the season or moon of the felling, sawing, or building.

I'd expect some splitting, particularly with hardwoods.

Jasperfield

[Banjo picker]

An ole trick to keep wood from splitting from  a nail is to whack the point with a hammer before driving it up....dulling the point helps...you'll have to get someone else to tell you why...i only know it works....call it experience or what ever....Tim

[kelLOGg]

Blunting the nail point makes it act like a punch going thru hard wood fiber when it is driven. A sharp point will part the fiber as it passes thru making it prone to split. This is probably more true for hardwood than soft. This sounds reasonable to me - does anybody else buy it?
Bob

[beenthere]

In addition to Stumpy's question, the wood will shrink between the nails across the grain. That may cause splitting as the wood shrinks, pulling tight on the nails.

Banjo  picker and kelLOGg
I buy it. 

[lmbeachy]

Blunting the nail point makes it act like a punch going thru hard wood fiber when it is driven. A sharp point will part the fiber as it passes thru making it prone to split. This is probably more true for hardwood than soft. This sounds reasonable to me - does anybody else buy it?
Bob

I buy it, it does work, but I don't know why either. Lester

[backwoods sawyer]

I just came in from nailing up some old dry Doug-fir, (customer wanted to use old wood for the frame and new wood for sheeting) talk about being prone to splitting.
I have nailed up a lot of green wood with out any splitting issues, then or later as it dry's.
If you look at an old barn that has been around for 100+ years, you will see some split boards, but take a look at how the nail holes are wallered out. Then step back and think about all the wind that that barn has seen over that time. As far as nails holding in green wood as it dries, it will be many years before they start to loosen up if the barn is relatively solid.   

[Kcwoodbutcher]

I've found that nailing uncoated nails in oak will lead to corrosion of the nail by the acid in the wood. A good galvanized nail helps.

[nas]

Blunting the nail point makes it act like a punch going thru hard wood fiber when it is driven. A sharp point will part the fiber as it passes thru making it prone to split. This is probably more true for hardwood than soft. This sounds reasonable to me - does anybody else buy it?
Bob

That is correct Bob.  Square nails also work to prevent splitting if they are oriented to cut the grain rather than part it.(point cross grain)

Nick

[Toolman]

8 yrs ago I built an addition to my saw shed using ash boards for siding. They were green and I pre- drilled holes and used ceramic coated deck screws to fasten them. I also used a counter-sink bit on each hole prior to driving screws. It has worked well. I hung boards vertically and added batten strips after about 6 months. I used a finishing nail gun to fasten them. The drilling and counter sinking bit were a little time consuming, but no boards are splitting either.

[Chuck White]

I agree with Bob!
What it boils down to is the difference between driving a wedge and driving a punch through the boards!
The wedge (pointed nail) will part fibers and the punch (dulled nail) will pretty-much just make a hole!

[Brucer]

What it boils down to is the difference between driving a wedge and driving a punch through the boards!
The wedge (pointed nail) will part fibers and the punch (dulled nail) will pretty-much just make a hole!

Yep, that's exactly what happens. Softwoods like Douglas-Fir and Larch tend to split with pointed nails, too.

Now the downside of blunting the nails and nailing into green wood ... the wedging action of the pointed nail in dry wood provides the holding power. If you blunt the nail, you loose some of that holding power 'cause you're tearing the fibres. With green wood, the fibres crush as the nail pushes through; when the wood dries it doesn't apply as much pressure. Nailing through green wood into dry wood isn't a problem.

[stumpy]

So, if I got this right, If I nail into a green 1x6, the drying action will shrink around the nail and hold it tighter rather than shrinking away from it.

[Magicman]

I'm very frequently asked to saw green oak to be used for roof lathing when folks are installing metal roofing.  They say that as the oak drys, it will hold the nail or screw better.

[beenthere]

Stumpy
Yes

[JJ]

preventing cracking during nailing is why hardwood flooring nails have flat points.
my finish nailer uses flat pointed nails as well.

[sdunston]

If you are using an air nailer just take the clip of nails and run them across a belt sander to dull the points
Sam

[LorenB]

So, if I got this right, If I nail into a green 1x6, the drying action will shrink around the nail and hold it tighter rather than shrinking away from it.

Common wisdom to the contrary, studies have shown that a plain-shank nail driven into green wood will not hold as well, even after the wood dries, as a nail driven into dry wood.  This is not true for helically-threaded nails.  Those nails will hold better after the wood dries. 

See page 7-7 in "Wood Handbook".  It's available as a download at:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/publications/several_pubs.php?grouping_id=100&header_id=p

Also see:
http://www.unitload.vt.edu/research/WOODBulletin-53.pdf

Also see the reference to Bacher's study in:
http://www.mdpi.org/ijms/papers/i9040626.pdf

Loren