New synthetic in old diesel

[shinnlinger]

Hi,

Did a search but didn't really see much on this.  I have a mid 80's Kubota with 1500 hours on it.  I put about 100 hours a year on it and plow with it.  Due to the cold starts and potential for more protection, I am interested in synthetic, but I hear it can make your engine a leaker,

Currently my engine is pretty tight, What do you folks think???

Thanks.

[Ironwood]

Put it in a 1000 hour Yanmar, and a 200 hour yanmar, niether had an issue. I about to do it again in yet ANOTHER slightly bigger yanmar w/ 1000 hours on it. I did it for the same reasons you speak of.

Ironwood

[Toolman]

I know a guy who retired as a fuel chemist for NASA. He is an interesting guy. He is strange, but very intelligent. He told me that synthetic oil should never be used 100%. He prefers not at all! He claims synthetic oils bead on metal vs. petroleum based oil actually coats onto metal. He claims it should never be used 100%. The advantage of synthetic blended oil is that it does'nt break down in viscosity as fast as petroleum based oil.  He has played with this stuff for over 30 yrs., so who am I to argue. He also claims todays gasoline is "garbage" compared to gasoline from the 60's. Todays fuel contains less light weight hydro carbons that gives better fuel economy. He points out butanyl , Xylene and acetone as just a few examples.

[Ironwood]

That must be why there is a HUGE contingant of acetone users out there. Mix ratio is HOWEVER critical.

Ironwood

[Toolman]

He told me xylenol/acetone mix at about 1-2 oz. per 10 gal for gas. Diesel is about an ounce more. Butanol can be added, but is very expensive offsetting any savings you would get with extra mileage. When I had my Powerstroke, I burned acetone in my diesel and found I had no black smoke when I punched the accelerator.

[T Red]

Would acetone help extend the life of gasoline?

Maybe it's just me but the new gas goes bad much quicker than gas from years ago.  I have a gas welder that just sets most of the time.  Every time I need it I have to dump the gas and clean out the carburetor.  I've tried stabil but it doesn't seem to help much. 

[Ironwood]

Yes, new gas is junk. Are you using Marine Stabil? That is the one everyone is recommending.

I have no idea on the life extension of acetone in gasoline. The Acetone mostly helps w/ atomization (and hence mileage) from what I understand.

Ironwood

[T Red]

Are you using Marine Stabil? That is the one everyone is recommending.

I will try that. 

There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

That's a pretty good statement.  My wife is living proof of that.  I had my doubts she would be able to make a living doing Pampered Chef.  But she has been doing it for several years and is now making more than I am. 

[Ironwood]

A little off the oil topic, but another good one:



ATTITUDE
by: Charles Swindoll
The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life.

Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company... a church... a home.

The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past... we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude... I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.

And so it is with you... we are in charge of our attitudes.




Ironwood

[Toolman]

I called Gerald(The retired chemist) and asked him about stabilizer for gas. He told me that Xylenol works very good as a fuel stabilizer. Xylenol is the active ingredient in most stabilizers. Add about 3 oz. per 10 gal of fuel and run it through your engine. It works especially well with E-10 fuels. He still recommends not storing E-10 fuel under any circumstance. He did however state that a product called Startron marine stabilizer has been reported to work well as an E-10 fuel stabilizer. Alot of commercial fisherman have reported good results.

[red oaks lumber]

i have a 1976 j.d. tractor it had 2950 hrs. on it when i bought it, first oil change i went 100% syn. never had  problems, did a full overhaul at 5600 hrs. shop said everything looked great. reson for overhaul i needed more power put differnt style pistons and a bigger fuel pump.still runs great

[Captain]

StarTron and Marine Stabil are very similar in formulation.

Captain

[Dave Hanny]

I find the comments of the NASA engineer very interesting.

As for acetone increasing the life of fuel... my guess would be "No, it would not."

Granted, today's fuels do gum up much faster than those of three decades ago - but I don't know which additive, besides the Stabil product, would add to a fuel's life.  What Acetone supposedly does is it increases the volatility of the fuel - so it increases the fuel's ability to vaporize and, also, evaporate.  Just thinking about fuel evaporating faster sounds as if it would not last any longer in a usable form.  But as long as you aren't letting it sit, there may be something to adding acetone to a fuel system... I'm still undecided. 

I haven't tried it, and I cannot find reputable sources who have tested it well enough.  Internet researching brings me to pretty poorly spelled and written posts by people who swear by it, but if they can't figure out the common language then I'm usually reticent to trust their discerning scientific judgment skills.

[Dana]

Mr. Hanney, I mickst up sum aceton in my jep but didn't come to eny kunclusions abot it. 

[Dave Hanny]

Mr. Hanney, I mickst up sum aceton in my jep but didn't come to eny kunclusions abot it. 

>:(   ;D

Here's one thing I do believe: In capitalism, if any product is nearly universally misunderstood, and/or few true comparisons between makers' offerings can easily be made, I can guarantee that those products have been cheapened down considerably over the last 35 years.  It happens in nearly every other product that the corporations feel the public will still buy despite it being inferior, so I don't see why gasoline is any different.

To that end, I do use something that, for the purposes I use it for, I refuse to call it a 'Snake Oil' additive.  I pretty regularly use Marvel's Mystery Oil as an upper-cylinder lubricant.  I use just a few ounces per 10 gallons.  It does seem to clean, too, as the EGR port carbon build-up problem that everyone else is having with their modular V-8 Ford trucks wasn't even beginning to appear on mine (I pulled the throttle body off to check it at about 111,000 miles - the ports were so clean they should have been new).  But as an upper-cylinder (like the valves) lube, it does what it is intended to do.

A while back that radio show, Click and Clack, actually admitted that adding a little bit of diesel fuel to a gasoline fill-up would increase gas mileage, but they only said that the EPA did not want us to do it, so don't.

But diesel has more oil in it, so my guess is either it, too, can act as an upper cylinder lube, or - based on the ideas this thread has offered - the addition of a little thicker oil throws back some lighter hydrocarbons into the mix ... that, or some other aspect that probably used to be in consumer-grade gasolines, but has been refined out over the decades.

All I can say is that I believe, based on the average consumer's inability to really figure it out, what we buy as gasoline(s) may not actually be what we'd want as gasoline if we all really knew, or had a feel for, what our motors really wanted (for cleanliness, lubricity in the upper-cylinder, and burn characteristics).  If each maker's gas is diferent (which they are, save for some gas station chains that buy left-over gas from any maker) - and each refinery's gas is different, it just gets me wondering which I would want if I could do all the testing that I'd like to do.

[Handy Andy]

  I have an old H IH tractor, didn't start it for 4 or 5 years, and it had goo in the sediment bowl, so my son had some acetone, said to try washing it out with it, tried it and it cleaned up real well, so put the rest in the tank.  Drained it out a few days later, pretty brown but liquid.

[Toolman]

Dave,

I don't recall saying Acetone increases the life of fuel. I could'nt find that statement in my posts. If I did say that, then I apologize. I did'nt mean to say that. He said that Acetone promotes a "complete" combustion of fuel. I did say that Xylenol is an active ingredient in most fuel stabilizers. I've yet to see any fuel stabilizer list it's active ingredients. Maybe that is done on purpose so that the consumer could'nt just by-pass their product and buy the active ingredient instead. Gerald does'nt sell or promote any products. He just knows what works. I can tell you this much. I've used pure Xylenol as a stabilizer in my fuel in my boat and my snow blower. I get instant starts every time. It works just as well as Stabil. It's alot cheaper. So, I believe in it.

Now as far as adding diesel in gas? I asked Gerald about that. He agrees that the oil in diesel makes a nice lubricant for the injectors. 10% diesel is ok, but, he says simply adding synthetic oil only at a rate of 1 oz per 10 gallons does wonders for your injectors. Ethonal is dry and abrasive on injectors and will shorten their life. Ultra low sulfur diesel is "hell" on injectors. Even though oil companies supposedly add a lubricant to diesel to avoid this, he recommends adding synthetic oil to diesel as well. He says with his experience, "I don't trust what the oil companies say they add". The reason for adding synthetic vs. petroleum base is that it's thinner. It passes through the filters much easier.

Gerald is an interesting guy. I question him alot about this stuff. He shrugs his shoulders alot if you doubt him. However, he practices what he preaches. He could care less if you don't believe him. He is very confident in his advice. I respect the guy. He has an 87 Ford Bronco II with 392,000 on it. Original engine. He says he replaced the alternator, clutch , and transmission once. He has been adding Acetone/Xylenol mix since day one and has started adding synthetic oil to fuel about 100,000 miles ago.

[Reddog]

Hi,

Did a search but didn't really see much on this.  I have a mid 80's Kubota with 1500 hours on it.  I put about 100 hours a year on it and plow with it.  Due to the cold starts and potential for more protection, I am interested in synthetic, but I hear it can make your engine a leaker,

Currently my engine is pretty tight, What do you folks think???

Thanks.

Where out of this question did this turn to fuel additives?

shinnlinger, It should be fine. Early synthetics didn't swell the seals at the same rate as Dino oils. Most companies have conquered this problem some years ago.

[Dave Hanny]

Toolman,

T Red asked about the life of fuel w/ acetone - it wasn't you.  ;)

And thanks for writing more of what your neighbor believes.  Sounds like a neat guy to talk to.

Sorry for helping contribute to the steering of the thread to something other than its original topic.  I thought about starting a new thread, but want to acknowledge Toolman's response (in hopes he, and others, would write more - which he did).  A Bronco II with that many miles on it is proof enough that Gerald seems to know his stuff,  .

[jesse]

put synthetic 5w40 shell rotella in a b 2100 kubota been run about 100 hours not seen any leaks yet

[isawlogs]

Reddog, lucky it did not turn to feed .  ;)

[Toolman]

I don't know, it seemed to be gettin

interesting as we went along. What do you think Shinlinger...You started this?  ;D
Where are you at Shinlinger? I hope we did'nt scare you off!!!!

[shinnlinger]

I'm still here... Yes it got hijacked, but it was pretty interesting.  I did get the info I was looking for.  3 folks have done what I want to do and it was OK so I actually bought some rotella 5-40 the other day and maybe will actually get it in my tractor this weekend.

So 1 once of acetone and xylene and synthetic for every 10 gallons?  Does the engineer pre mix the three things together so he just pours in 1 container at a fill up????

[stonebroke]

Where do you find xylene?

Stonebroke

[Reddog]

paint supply isle