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My day with New England Saw and Lumber

Started by pnyberg, September 11, 2009, 11:19:46 PM

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pnyberg

Tuesday, my wife and I went out to dinner at the Trattoria da Lepri (www.trattoriadalepri.com), a fairly new restaurant across the road from the Ellington Agway, that has quickly become one of our favorites.  Highly recommended, if you're in the area. (OK, this restaurant review is aimed entirely at the two active FF members I know are close enough to possibly care.) When we got home, there was a message on our answering machine from Schuyler Montgomery saying that he and Jane could saw our logs the next day.  Naturally, I called him right back and told him that this would be fine.

In the morning I emailed my boss and co-workers to tell them that I was taking the day off.  I played around with the foundation for my stickered stack, where the lumber will air dry, while waiting impatiently for the mill and the sawyers to arrive.

When the truck pulled into the driveway, Jane popped out immediately and introduced herself, while Scy proceeded to back the mill into position on the wrong side of my rack of logs.  I very tentatively mentioned to Jane that I had thought we could set up the mill over in the field rather than in the middle of my driveway.  She quickly saw the benefits to this, and after a bit of discussion, Scy made a big U turn, and aligned the mill to the other side of the logs.



Jane was ready to provide guidance, but not much was needed.  The mill is a 2002 LT40HD Super.  The first thing I wondered about was what was that saucer shaped thing on top of their rear support post.  That turned out to be the base for a large umbrella that I'm guessing they use on some jobs to protect the sawyer from the elements.  No need for that on this fine day.

As soon as the mill was in position, set up began, and then soon after that, it was done.  It was pretty obvious that Scy and Jane have been working as a team for a long time.



Scy had to dig just a bit to get one of the loader arms to sit flat.



Then it was time to load the first log.  There were lots of well worn LogRite tools on display, including Jane's PINK peavy. 



For the first logs, Jane did the sawing.  Scy and I were the unskilled labor



The pile of boards began to grow.



When we got to one of the larger logs, where we were going to take a stab at quarter-sawing, Schuyler offered to take over as sawyer.  I'm not sure why, maybe he just likes doing it.  I'm not a very skilled photographer, and I tend to take lots of close up pictures of my fingers.



My lovely wife, Kim, took the afternoon off from work so she could see the mill in action, and get a better idea of what I'm considering getting myself into.  She must have picked up my camera while I was distracted.  That's me trying to keep up with Jane. 

This is one of the logs being quarter-sawn.  In going through the FF archives, I've read a lot of threads about QS techniques, but this approach was new to me.  The first step was to create a rectangular cant, which was then quartered.  In the picture above, there are two quarters on the arms, and two on the bed.  My first thought on this approach was that some usable material would end up in slabs rather than boards, but maybe most of that would be sapwood that would end up getting trimmed off anyway.  I also got the impression that they had an aversion to leaving a live edge, though it would have been OK with me.  The next thing that surprised me was that Scy would always keep 2 quarters on the bed.  He would flip them independently, and sometimes a cut would only take a board from one of the quarters, but usually each pass produced two boards.

I tried to keep track of the quarters as Scy was flipping them, but soon lost track.  On the second log that we quarter sawed, I managed to catch Jane in the act of drawing concentric circles, following the growth rings, on the sawyer's end of the log.  Is this cheating?



Eventually, we ran out of logs.  Jane and Scy both went out of their way to complement me on having an above average whack of logs (for a homeowner), which I appreciated.  In this one case, when the homeowner said there was no metal in the logs, it turned out to be true.  Unfortunately, this means I learned nothing about how to deal with metal in logs.  Only one log displayed any stress movement of any significance.  I learned that this produces more material for the slab pile.  I also learned that while it may be true that thin kerf technology produces less sawdust than traditional mills, it still produces a lot of sawdust.  I knew I didn't want this in my driveway.

A few other tidbits of the operation: the mill was running .045, 1-1/4", 10° blades; there was one blade change about 2 hours in, the lube jug looked like plain water to me.  NESL charges $85/hr for the mill and two bodies, plus $1.00/mile one way.  3 hours + 10 miles comes to $265.  I haven't measured the boards, but I scaled the logs.  Using the Int'l 1/4 scale, they came to just under 1200 bdft.  That's $0.22/bdft, which seems kind of low for 15 miles outside of Hartford.  I'm going to have to talk them into slowing down or raising their rates.



There's the back side of the lumber pile, with the slab pile in the middle distance, and just behind that is my firewood shed where the slab wood will rest for a while, after it's been cut to length. 



I managed to get about 1/4 of the lumber stacked in a "real" stack after Scy and Jane left.  After that, I needed a rest.  Boards seem heavier if you're lifting them by yourself, rather than just lifting one end. The next day, my pickup truck was in the shop, so I had no way to move the lumber. 



I was nervous about leaving it dead stacked for too long, so I took a middle road, and temporarily put the rest into a substandard sticker-stack for a few days.  There are only 3 stickers over the 12' length. There is a 4x4 under the middle that doesn't show up in the picture.  This should get moved to the "real" stack over the weekend. 

Scy and I did talk a bit about the possibility of my getting a mill and becoming his competor.  He had only encouraging words to say.  This is looking more and more likely. 

--Peter
No longer milling

DanG

Well that was a DanG fine account of a DanG fine day of sawing!  Those were some mighty fine looking logs too! 8) 8)  He should have paid you to let him saw them!
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

brdmkr

Wow,

Looks like you had a good day and got some fine looking lumber to boot.  Did sawdust get in your blood? 
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Don K

Great post. I enjoyed it. I imagine the circles were for the benefit of the sawyers eyes. With the remote station you are a little further away from the end of the log than a walkalong station on the head. It helps him to see how the ray flecks are oriented to get the best Q'sawn boards.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

Chuck White

Good post!

Really enjoyed the sequential overview of the entire operation!  Good photo job.

I have to saw some red pine in a little while, breakfast first.  ;D

Haven't had much sawing in the past 2 weeks!  Will be good to get back at it.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Meadows Miller

Gday

Top post and it looks like you had a good day and got some Great timber out of it Pnyberg  ;) ;D 8) Good pics too  ;) My sister dose the finger thing every now and then aswell so your not the only one Mate  ;) :D :D ;D

With the Quater sawing that method has worked well for me over the years when ive been sawing Mountain Ash and mixed H/woods downhere   ;D as you dont see any q/s in the outside of the log i think its better to get afew wider backsawn boards then quater the block it also relives Alot of the tension before you quater it too ;) ;D 8)

The other way is to do Full Quatersawn where you Bust the log in half then split the two halvs which also relives the tension But its a sawing pattern Best suited to H/duty Vertical Saw Rigs and larger logs

Well i think Kim must like the Idea if She took the Arvo off to have alook  Mate  ;) ;D 8)

With the there beeing any comp between you and Scy & Jane  there wont be Mate  ;) like i say to everyone thinking about it  ;) is that There's Plenty of Room  for Us All  ;) aslong as you do a Top Job   ;) ;D 8) the ones that dont arnt realy competitors as they come and go all the time  Mate ;) :D ;D



Regards Chris

4TH Generation Timbergetter

Norm

Well that was a great post and some very nice lumber produced.  :)

fishpharmer

Pnyberg, one thing I have noticed, eating and sawing make a winning combo  around here.  ;D

What a great documentary of your first day sawing. 

Do you have specific plans for your lumber?
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Chico

My Daughter My sailor MY HERO God Bless all the men and Women fighting for us today If you see one stop and thank them

pnyberg

Quote from: fishpharmer on September 12, 2009, 09:05:06 AM
Do you have specific plans for your lumber?

Not specific enough to produce a cut-list.  I've got vague plans for a dining room hutch, and some book shelves.  Since this is most 4/4 type work, that's mostly what I had milled.  I had some 6/4 and 8/4 milled just in case.  I can always make that thinner if I need to.

--Peter
No longer milling

WH_Conley

Lot easier to make it thinner than it is to make it thicker. ;D
Bill

Magicman

Congrats on a nice saw.  Yup, the heart can pump sawdust too.... 8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

bandmiller2

Peter,don't worry about learning how to handle tramp metal in your logs it just happens.You can almost tell when it will happen,you've just put a new band on the mill.Nows the time to buy your own mill,everyones on a lumber high.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

jamesamd

All that is gold does not glitter,not all those that wander are lost.....

Dan_Shade

Thanks for the post, looks like you guys had a fine day!

i'd like to know a bit more about his quartersawing method.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

pnyberg

Quote from: Dan_Shade on September 13, 2009, 11:14:02 PM
i'd like to know a bit more about his quartersawing method.

Unfortunately, I don't really know much more, and Schuyler no longer frequents the forum.  He used to post occasionally under the somewhat cryptic member name of "W", but I think his last post was in 2007. 

The speculation above about making a rectangular cant to relieve stress makes some sense, but if that was the strategy, it definitely didn't work with one of the logs we quartersawed.  When Scy sawed the cant through at the pith, the upper half bowed pretty aggressively. 

I don't know if Kevin Bantle might be able to shed any light on the technique, if he happens to stumble on this thread.

--Peter
No longer milling

woodmills1

nice logs
nice lumber
very good report of the cut
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

pnyberg

It took longer than I'd like to admit to build the final stickered stack:



It is tilted just a bit, but not as much as the photo seems to suggest. 

I scaled the logs at 1992 bdft using the international scale.  Measuring the boards, I came up with a conservative measure of 1278 bdft.

My local hardwood supplier is listing 4/4 red oak at $3.45, $4.38 for 10" and wider, and $6.04 for quarter sawn.

The structure to the right is a little used greenhouse, not solar kiln (yet  :)).

--Peter
No longer milling

beenthere

pnyberg
That lumber pile looks good from this angle.

Think I would add more weight on top, if mine.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Don K

Looks good. I agree with beenthere, Those top few layers may walk on you a little without enough weight. If you have a few inferior species of trees you could cut a few logs and put on top for your extra weight.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

pnyberg

Well, I could do all of that, but putting more rocks on top would seem a lot easier.  There's no shortage of rocks around here.

Thanks for the input,
     Peter
No longer milling

WDH

Some nice thick planks in that stack.  That is some fine looking lumber.  Tonight at supper, after pulling a big stack of air-dried lumber in the heat and humidity, I told my wife that I was never going to saw crappy, dead, low quality, or just DanG snotty logs anymore.  It is just not worth it.  You just accumulate a big pile of crap.

What a fellow needs is logs like those in the pics in this thread.  Then you can accomplish something.

Drying is an art.  I am constantly learning.  Anybody that can spalt poplar in a stack of air drying lumber, properly stickered, with plenty of air space around the stack, under an open shed, needs to learn a lot more.

Anybody need any spalted yellow poplar ::) ::) :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

Something about your scaled logs and scaled lumber doesn't make sense.... ???  Must have been VERY conservative.

I would caution against using clear plastic as a cover.  It lets sunlight through.  Sunlight and moisture promotes the growth of "bad things".... :'(
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

pnyberg

Quote from: Magicman on September 18, 2009, 10:01:35 PM
Something about your scaled logs and scaled lumber doesn't make sense.... ???  Must have been VERY conservative.

OOPS, typo alert!  The figure for the scaled logs should have been 1192 vs 1278 for the measured lumber.

Quote from: Magicman on September 18, 2009, 10:01:35 PM
I would caution against using clear plastic as a cover.  It lets sunlight through.  Sunlight and moisture promotes the growth of "bad things".... :'(

Thanks for your concern.  The picture doesn't show the layer of plywood under the plastic. 

--Peter
No longer milling

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Tam-i-am

Peter

Okay, I can take a hint.  I will try out the restaurant as soon as show season is over.

And yes, Kevin taught Schuyler how to quartsaw like that and I promise to get him to explain it on this post.

Tammy
Get Stuff Moving Today!  www.bluecreeper.com  www.facebook.com/Bluecreeper

78NHTFY

Nice stack of rough sawn.  For years I also piled rocks, boulders, slabs, etc on top to hold down the plywood/tin/plastic protecting my stickered stack.  Despite my best efforts, after a strong wind, parts would blow off  and the stack would get wet.  Solution?  Slide rope between the stickers at 3 or 4 spots along the stack and simply tie down the plywood/tin/plastic.  Not my invention.  It's all nicely described in an April '09 Fine Woodworking article " Dry your Own Lumber", by Dave Spacht.  All the best, Rob.
If you have time, you win....

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