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Choosing mill to resaw barn beams...suggestions?

Started by Rooster, September 06, 2009, 10:05:19 AM

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Rooster

Ok, I know that we have wonderful FF sponsors, but...
I need you guys to help me find a mill that will re-saw barn beams up to 36ft.
I have limited experience with only WM.  I haven't been impressed with the saws ability to cut parrellel across the log, or cutting 90 deg. to the log stops.  So which mill will give me long cuts, and square beams?

Thanks,

Rooster
"We talk about creating millions of "shovel ready" jobs, for a society that doesn't really encourage anybody to pick up a shovel." 
Mike Rowe

"Old barns are a reminder of when I was young,
       and new barns are a reminder that I am not so young."
                          Rooster

backwoods sawyer

I have been looking into getting an LT-15 for doing such projects. Any of your non-remote mills would be a good choice, and considerably cheaper then setting up an extension on a remote mill. As far as square cuts, you just have to make sure of the position before putting saw to wood. If you are looking at making thin boards then you will want to compare mills to see how well the clamps and stops hold the wood over that distance.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

scsmith42

Rooster, if your beams are less than 10" wide then your best bet may be a swingmill, such as the Peterson WPF.

I can cut a beam up to 56' long with mine, and it's easy to add track extensions if needed.  Plus there is no need to move the beam once it's on your bunks.

Doublecutting is an option for beams up to 20" wide, but it's hard to consistently produce double-cuts without a slight edge between them.

Just something to consider.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: scsmith42 on September 06, 2009, 10:42:17 AM
Rooster, if your beams are less than 10" wide then your best bet may be a swingmill, such as the Peterson WPF.

I can cut a beam up to 56' long with mine, and it's easy to add track extensions if needed.  Plus there is no need to move the beam once it's on your bunks.

Doublecutting is an option for beams up to 20" wide, but it's hard to consistently produce double-cuts without a slight edge between them.

Just something to consider.

Scott

How thin can you cut your bottom board?
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

sgschwend

I just did a project and the cutting was not difficult.  However, the beams won't be straight you will spend more time moving material than sawing.  My customer wanted all the wood so I really couldn't straighten the beams so we just rolled them until they laid the best.

If you are making smaller beams or marine spars then a long saw makes sense otherwise going over 16' makes little sense and is going to make the work ten time harder.  Why carry a 2,000 pound beam around when you could shorten it to a weight that is manageable?
Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

scsmith42

Quote from: backwoods sawyer on September 06, 2009, 10:52:52 AM

How thin can you cut your bottom board?

Not as thin as a bandmill can!  :D

It depends upon the log / beam, the number of bunks and if I'm using metal dogs.  Normally I leave at least an inch above the bunks.  If I'm cutting a beam that thin I'll need to add a lot of bunks to keep the last cuts from flexing.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Ianab

QuoteHow thin can you cut your bottom board?

Depends on your bunk design and if you use dogs or wedges, and how close you want to get to them   ;)

But if you are sawing beams I would modify or build the bunks / clamp so that the bunk was flat and you just had a sliding alloy dog 1/2" above the bunk. That would let you saw down to 1" off the bunks for the last board. And if something went wrong you only hit wood or aluminiium and the blade should survive.

Normally the dogs are a couple of inches above the bunks, so they can grip the round log properly, but if you have a square beam they dont need to be like that.

The bunks and dogs are not part of the mill, so you generally build you own to suit.

A Peterson WPF or a manual bandmill would both work. In both cases the rails can be layed on a concrete pad and extensions bolted on as far as you want. Then place the beam on your custom built bunks. The carriage just rolls and cuts untill you hit the end stops.

The Swingmill has the advantage that you still have a very capable portable mill that you can pack up and move in minutes if you get other sawing jobs.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

customsawyer

If all you are wanting is the boards from these timbers than get a resaw with hold down wheels and some roller tables that can handle the timbers. You should be able to find a used one reasonable. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

moonhill

I roll the cant 180° after the first cut, this lightens up the odd bulk of weight, it is balanced better.  This can be done with a old timber as well to assist with the square issue. 

You may look for a used Breezewood as an option, they are no longer in production.  It has power feed and up an down for the head, but is manual log handling, the bunks are moveable so they can be positioned under the ends for support and unlimited length.  The track is easy to extend.  The finishing dogs are low profile allowing for thin last cuts, at least on my mill.   

I believe Andy Riss, the maker of the Breezewood B-2000 did work with Wood-Mizer as well.   

If you are sawing salvaged timber what should one look out for?  Is there a special bands for such things as rusty broken nails left in the timber?

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

ErikC

  I would use a swingmill for sure if you are sawing them out of logs. Your thread title suggests they will be from salvaged timbers though, and I would say swingmills are not the best choice at all for that. Manual bandmills are pretty easy to add on to, and the cheaper bands(cheaper than circle blades that is) are a plus because the potential is so high for nails and so on in reclaimed wood. Also less kerf loss may be critical at times in this type of work.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

Rooster

Thanks guys for your advice.  The driving force behind my need to chose a mill is one of many projects that I have been asked to work on.  I am a timber-frame carpenter that restores barns, and I have been asked to build a large barn from reclaimed hand hewn timbers.  Since the timbers will probably be coming from a large assortmnet of salvaged barns, I am hoping to resaw one or more sides of the timbers to help keep some of the dimensions somewhat consistant, straight and square. Sizes may be as big as 18" square, and 36ft long. Timbers will probably milled at the new job-site, out in the open, maybe under a large tent.

So keep the ideas/ advice coming!!

Thanks again!
Rooster
920-728-0353
"We talk about creating millions of "shovel ready" jobs, for a society that doesn't really encourage anybody to pick up a shovel." 
Mike Rowe

"Old barns are a reminder of when I was young,
       and new barns are a reminder that I am not so young."
                          Rooster

beenthere

Quote from: Craig Roost on September 06, 2009, 10:05:19 AM
... need you guys to help me find a mill that will re-saw barn beams up to 36ft.
I have limited experience with only WM.  I haven't been impressed with the saws ability to cut parrellel across the log, or cutting 90 deg. to the log stops.  So which mill will give me long cuts, and square beams?

Not sure what you mean in particular why the WM didn't impress you.  Set up right with a sharp band, seems  any bandmill has the ability to cut straight.
For long cuts, maybe a four poster with tracks added on to get the length. Leveled up and straight for the saw head to roll, that should give you the cuts you want (as long as the band is sharp as in it hasn't clipped off any nails).

WM, Hudson, Norwood and others have limits only by the amount of track needed to get the long length. Some may be easier to transport and assemble.  Aligning the timber on the tracks for the cut will be the real work.  :)

As well the swing saws would do the job too.

Just trying to understand here. :) :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ianab

Any mill should cut straight and square. If it doesn't then it needs fixing, new band, adjustments or something is badly bent.

Swingmills do seem to be more forgiving, if they aren't cutting straight something is badly out of adjustment and as they are so simple, it's usually easy to figure out what.

Sawing,or resawing large beams. You aren't actually limited by the mills cutting capacity. You can still move the log just like on a bandsaw. So you can level the top off a 18" beam, roll it 90deg and level again etc. You probably will need to square up the beam with shims or wedges if it's not exactly square to start out with of course.

Other suggestion  - get a blade re-tipping jig. Almost certain that you are going to hit some metal at some time. A couple of spare blades will keep you working, a having your own re-tipping jig means it wont cost too much when the inevitable happens.  >:(

Ian

Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

logwalker

Quote from: Craig Roost on September 06, 2009, 10:05:19 AM
Ok, I know that we have wonderful FF sponsors, but...
I need you guys to help me find a mill that will re-saw barn beams up to 36ft.
I have limited experience with only WM.  I haven't been impressed with the saws ability to cut parrellel across the log, or cutting 90 deg. to the log stops.  So which mill will give me long cuts, and square beams?

Thanks,

Rooster

Any mill is only as good as the operator setting it up. I personally don't agree with maligning a fine product like Woodmizer or any of our other fine sponsors. If you have a problem with that come by my place and bring your square. Joe (who happens to like orange)
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Rooster

Now that's what I'm talking about....someone who isn't going to sugar-coat it.  Correcting the misconceptions of the timber industry is a very important part the educational side of the FF...especially for us "nubies".

Does anyone else want to "stick up" for their favorite FF Sponsor?
How about Timber-king?

Thanks to all who have something to share.

Rooster



"We talk about creating millions of "shovel ready" jobs, for a society that doesn't really encourage anybody to pick up a shovel." 
Mike Rowe

"Old barns are a reminder of when I was young,
       and new barns are a reminder that I am not so young."
                          Rooster

rickywashere

well i dont own either timberking or norwood but i can tell you this much .. i'm currently saving up for a norwood  i have all the videos and info for almost all and price per quality i think the norwood is the better value for a personal mill i like the timberking 1220 but i dont like the crank i like to feel the machine i'm running /// guess that comes for all the hand mills i ran in the past .. i also like the honda motor . but if you want bigger go with timberking  there big mill look great 1600 would be my next choice with addons of course

cilley

Craig........i would tell you to look at a hudson or timberking ground track mill.........it will do what you are looking for......i looked at both when i was looking for a mill that would saw 32 foot or more.......just my 2cents .........alan

shinnlinger

My 20 ft Turner has 1 ten foot extension and it can do a 27 footer. I could add more 10 foot extensions from the company at $500 a pop, but it is designed to be user friendly and the track is a few different sizes of stock angle iron welded together.  I could either make my own extensions or have some made locally pretty easily if I had the need.  If you were buying one new from Turner, I bet you could have a 20 foot extension made up right from the get go and that would give you 37 foot ability.

I mention this because the ability to saw a long timber is where my mill has an advantage over the local WM guys.  They will kick my manual mill's butt when it come to portability, production and boards and what not, but for long timbers a manual mill is the economical way to go.

I believe my mill is very similar spec wise to the Norwood, but the tracks on a Norwood appear to me to not be very reproducible.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Dave Shepard

All mills need to be aligned properly. I ran our new Wood-Mizer Super for a couple hundred hours last year before I ever had to cut a square timber. I had to tip the head back the recommended 1/16th inch, and now it will cut perfectly square, perfectly dimensioned timbers, provided I do my part. :D You won't have any troubles with an aligned WM mill. :)

It sounds like one of the manual, non-trailer type mills will do what you want, they are ideal for setting up to cut long timbers due to their multiple track sections.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

bandmiller2

Rooster,depending how much long timber your going to recut, what I think would work out best, is a four post manual head on your homebuilt track.Angle iron set on straight timbers on the ground no limit to the legnth.Manual is good your right there with the head to see hardware and feel the cut.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

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