advice on sawing flooring

tmroper · September 03, 2009, 12:50:05 AM

First off I want to apologize for all the questions I am going to ask. I am just very poor cowboy and trying to figure out flooring so I can make and install myself. I live in an original homesteaders cabin that has a small adition added with carpet. Well the cheap carpet and me and my 4 cowdogs didn't mix to well.

I am wanting to saw some flooring for the house I live in and have a few questions.
I live in montana and would like to get the wood locally for cost (The ranch I work for owns the house not me)
I will probably use pine or fir. Would this be fine?
Can I get away without tounge and grooving it?
How thick should I saw it?
I was going to top nail it what should the spacing be and what kind of nails?
Once it is installed if not planed how do you finish meaning just use a floor sander to knock off the rough and polyurethane to have that roughsawn look?
I heard some guys talking about relief cuts and using a hand plane on edge what is this for? Or what other cuts need to be made on it to make decent flooring?

Thanks in advance

backwoods sawyer · September 03, 2009, 01:18:38 AM

Doug fir would be a better choice then white fir of pine. I have seen plenty of cabins out in Wyoming and Montana that did not have tougne and grove, it adds to the rustic look. As to how thick to mill it, any where from 3/4" to 1 ¼" depending on how you plan to finish it. If you are just going to dry it and then lay it down ¾" would be plenty, but if you are going to have it planed then an 1 1/4" would be needed. For top nailing, a ring shank would be a good choice. If you just want a rough sawn look, a floor sander will work fine just focus on the transition from board to board, but if you want a high-end look to the floor then planing would be necessary. The relief cuts help to relieve stress in the wood so that the floor will lay flat rather then cupping, and this can be done with a skill saw set shallow. The wider the boards the more cuts down the length of the backside of the boards (2-3). Several coats of a polyurethane will finish it out nicely. Wider boards will develop wider cracks then narrow boards. The biggest thing to remember is that you will want the wood to dry completely and that will take some time. However if you mill it up this fall and you have some room behind the couch that you can stack it and you use wood heat it should be ready to lay down in about eight months.

bandmiller2 · September 03, 2009, 05:50:16 AM

Backwoods pretty much has it hammered. The bevel cut on the edge of the boards was to hide the cracks in plain sight it has a pleasing rustic look and you never notice the cracks between the boards.I used an electric hand plainer but a hand would work just be carefull of the end grain corners.I like to put the floor down with drywall screws but nais will work fine.Of course a real upscale cow puncher would countersink the screws glue in contrasting wood plugs and sand smooth.[too much work]Frank C.

Banjo picker · September 03, 2009, 06:32:59 AM

When you are drying that flooring behind the couch , make sure you properly sticker it. ;) Tim

ladylake · September 03, 2009, 06:35:32 AM

If your going to top nail it you won't be able to sand it unless the nails are countersunk a ways. Steve

moonhill · September 03, 2009, 07:53:42 AM

Do not use "dry wall screws" at the least look for decking screws. Wide boards or narrow stock? Will it be band sawn or on a "round" mill? I would face nail it and for an extra flare use cut nails from Tremont Nail Company.

Tim

Kansas · September 03, 2009, 08:15:05 AM

A guy that used to work for me came from the kentucky area. They did a number of cabins there where they used the old time square nails. Just nailed it down and then ran the sander right over the nails and wood. He had a little display set up that featured it. There are slight bumps where the square nails are, but not bad enough to worry about on a cabin. I thought it looked nice.

Magicman · September 03, 2009, 02:03:21 PM

In the cabin that we did, I cut full 1X6's. After drying we sized it all to 5 1/2" and ran it through a planer set to 7/8". This resulted in the flooring not being completely and smoothly planed. We then used a hand power planer to V groove the edges, laid it tight and surface nailed it down. We angled the nailer, shooting the nails at an "outward" angle. Sure the cracks opened up a little. The V groove edges removed any trip hazard.

Bruce_A · September 03, 2009, 06:06:11 PM

Wood dowels driven at opposing angles will hold well and won't tear up the sand paper. It is permanet when done and can't be pulled up for firewood, so get it right the first time.

JimMartin9999 · September 04, 2009, 12:19:21 AM

Ho Bruce A
What spacing would you use with your dowels?
With double dowels that would be a lot of work!
Jim

sgschwend · September 04, 2009, 11:36:38 PM

T&G does two things, it covers the edges that are not tight and it gives a place for hidden fastening.

You could run the flooring through your table saw and install a spline the length of each board. It would act pretty much like TnG. Not sure how much you plan on doing but I could see gluing the spline on one side too.

For wide floor parts 5" or bigger I like to glue the floor down. It makes it a lot stronger and keeps the floor tight with no squeaks. You can also get away with a lot less nails or smaller nails even using a finish nail, since the glue will do the work the nails just hold it until the glue sets.

Another trick is to use about three lengths of boards but keep them all fairly short, something like 3, 4,6'.

tmroper · September 04, 2009, 11:52:19 PM

The space that I would like to do is 200 sf. It sounds to me that the boards definitely need some time to dry and you could not put them down green or you would be just asking for trouble also how many extra square feet of flooring would you estimate to cut for boards that just don't turn out good.
thanks

beenthere · September 04, 2009, 11:54:17 PM

sgschwend
When you glue the floor down, what is the underlayment, and how do you prep that for gluing?

What glue do you use?

tmroper · September 05, 2009, 12:07:20 AM

I get this contact cement from a wood supplier to use when building saddles because it is $65 for 5 gallons and at a leather supplier it is the same price for 1 gallon. I wonder if that would work or should you use the stuff for linoleum. I should also add that I do not have a kiln so would that affect whether or not to glue it down?
Thanks

Bruce_A · September 05, 2009, 01:01:25 PM

Dowel spacing depends on the size and type of wood. On narrow, dry boards you should be able to use alternating dowels spaced forom 12 to 16 inches with good results. Try a small cabinet top first to see if you like it. Ship lap can also be made with a table saw or router etc..

sgschwend · September 05, 2009, 03:34:35 PM

For glue I contact a floor products distributor in my area and purchase 5 gallon buckets of the best floor adhesive. If I remember correctly it was about $20/gallon, I think you would need about 5 gallons.

You would certainly need a sub-floor, the last one I worked on was 5/8 plywood, really thin, you could feel it move as you walked over it. Now with 3/4" DF flooring over it it is nice and firm. Any subfloor is OK (as far and I know), I have worked on concrete, plywood, and OSB. If you have skip sheeting then you will need to run the floor in the opposite direction.

As to overage, I would make at least 20%. Here is order I would do it: saw boards 1/4 oversize in thickness and 1" in width, air dry inside heated space, thickness plane, cut to length and square ends, table saw parallel sides using extended fence, run T&G.

You can check out my web page there is a story about country style flooring and some pictures. What ever you do don't try to make flooring to bridge wall to wall, go with short sizes that you can mix and match to make an appealing look.