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Who will own farmland in the future?

Started by jrdwyer, August 14, 2009, 04:04:18 PM

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jrdwyer

I have much respect for farmers and their way of life. While I did not grow up on a farm, I spent my youth detasseling corn and walking beans and now I often do forestry work for farm families. I believe if my parents had been farmers, that would be my profession today.

I recently read a few articles concerning farmland being purchased or leased by investors (for higher returns, or course) and governments (in order to bypass purchasing grain on the open markets) in African countries . The governments involved call it food security. Here are the links:

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/aug2009/gb2009083_487801_page_5.htm

http://www.economist.com/world/international/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13692889

I know little about African countries other than they have a history of great economic and political instability. My gut reaction concerning the buying (or taking) of lands in such countries is that it will fail.

This also brings to mind the exporting of grains and meat from Ireland to England during the Great Famine of 1845-1852, when at the same time, a million people starved to death because the potato crops failed and there was no other food to eat. I am of Irish decent.

Reading this type of thing makes my grateful for being a citizen of the United States and having a stable government and good private property rights.


jim king

JR:
Having lived in the third world more of my life than I have lived in the States I have a few jaded opinions on this subject.  By the way when I was young I lived close to you in Tell City for a couple of years and went thru Evansville once a month on our way back to the farm in Wisconsin for a few days.

In Africa we have seen the result of the land grab by Magabe and the starvation and inflation it caused.  I lived in West Africa for 8 years and the buzz word of the time was the "Green revolution".  It was an effort to create a farming base that could feed the people, it failed miserably.  In the last few years we have seen the displaced farmers from Zimbabwe resetteling in Nigeria and other West African countries and they have in effect created a true green revoultion and are very successful.  Why do you ask?¿  They are farmers and know what they are doing.

The same can be said here in the Amazon with respect to palm oil plantations , fish farming , forestry or drilling for oil.  The successful ones come from outside and invest and WORK plus they have the knowledge from experience and not theory from a book.

In my opinion all third world countries need more imigrants as they are traditionally the hardest working people in a society.  The US of America was created by hard working imigrants from many nations who all pooled thier specialties to make a nation.  That is what is lacking in the third world.   We dont need the World Bank throwing money in the river as it rarely if ever does anything. 

I feel quite confident that the majority of the projects mentioned in the two articles will not succeed with a sure exception to the Chinese as they bring the people to work, manage and teach from experience.

Just my opinion.  The people who migrate to these places become successful if they can take it.  The local people in the third world in many cases have not yet learned to till the soil as the Europeans learned hundreds of years ago.  The mix of the two is benificial to both.

I have little little or no faith in mega projects for food production.  I believe in one family at a time.

ARKANSAWYER


  Corps will own the farm land.  It will be like the developers of now where they can throw you off your land to build a new shopping mall.  Soon they will learn that not enough people are growing food and so clear the land and farm it "ditch to ditch".  Next will be over the water to make the crops grow.   The US Gov is now working on keeping small farmers from growing and selling crops.  If you give away or sell stuff from your back yard garden you will be breaking the law.  So General Mills and Conagra and such will own the land and farm it and sell you the food you need.  It will not be as much food as you have now as the new Health Care Plan will tell you are fat so cut back your food allocation.   Every time I travel out I see where farm land has a new golf course and more condos on it.  THere is really only so much farm land.   I know that here it takes 3.5 acres of grass to feed one cow off the land.  How much land to feed just one person?  How much farm land to feed the 6 billion people of the world?   China takes lots of food and farms just about every inch they can.   Nothing like hunger to make you want to kill your neighbor.
ARKANSAWYER

Warbird

It is the classic 'over-population' question.  The more people crammed into a small area, the more 'socialist' they must be to survive.  At least, this is the conclusion I have come to after thinking about it a while.

beenthere

Becoming "socialist" is what they gravitate towards, but it doesn't work. Eastern Germany is a very good example. They ended up with the good farmland, but could not feed themselves under socialism. People who would work hard to compete, just give up under socialism and "let the other guy" work hard to the point no one works hard, unless forced.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

moonhill

The Green Revolution is based on fossil fuel.  As a hypothetical scenario, what would happen if fossil fuel ran out or became cost prohibitive?  Population control would happen.

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

DanG

Quote from: Warbird on August 14, 2009, 07:28:22 PM
It is the classic 'over-population' question.  The more people crammed into a small area, the more 'socialist' they must be to survive. 

I agree with that first sentence, but disagree with the second. Over-population is the root of most of our problems, but the closer we live, the more freedoms we need.  We haven't seen real hunger in this Country in a long time, but if we do, we need to be free to grow something to eat!  We cannot be restrained by neighborhood associations telling us how to clip our lawn, when we need to grow some turnips on it, nor can we tolerate the Govt telling us what we cannot do with our land.  I've been in a couple of third world countries myself, and those people survive by getting every crumb they can find.  Having running water is a huge status symbol in some of those places, and unheard of in others.  Those are the things that such governmental systems as Socialism, Fascism, and other forms of dictatorships bring you.  It doesn't matter which one it is, they are all the same.  Communism was supposed to be a government of and for the people, but it wasn't.  The greatest of all the Communist regimes only lasted 60 years under the iron fist of Socialism, and ended with their people near starvation!  The only system on the face of this Earth that has ever worked is the one we have here in The United States of America, and we are on the verge of pithing it away in favor of Socialism!  People, it takes guts to resist the temptations of empty promises.  We absolutely MUST keep our heads about us and refuse to allow despotism in any form to take us over!

ps:  Warbird, you probably didn't mean that statement quite the way I took it at first.  Don't let it bother you.  It was a good segue for what I wanted to say. ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Warbird

No worries.  What I typed didn't come out quite right and you guys were right to jump on it.  For the record, I agree, I simply get disgruntled by the trend toward socialism as our cities fill up with more and more people.

WildDog

A high proportion of the better cropping country in my state now faces being stuffed by mining giants chasing the underground coal, there is overseas interest in these areas such as China, chasing coal.

A strip of highly fertile red farming country that I have admired, near the town of Inverell is now being targeted for its rich Bauxite reserves.   

Our safe rainfall country is being bought up by large corporations which does including privately owned family partnerships chasing comodity of scale, this hopefully will remain for farming however it is a problem for a young person starting out without a heap of capital, it is out of their reach to buy a viable farm that makes a living, not long ago it was the norm that a farm should pay for itself in 10 years. Cattle grazing country was worth about $1500 a cow and calf unit now it is a least 4 times that, while weaner calves have probaly risen only 10% in price.

The problem I see is the valuable farming country is where the interest for mining lies whereas we have a lot of wether country (merino wool growing areas not even suitable to even sheep breeding) that holds little interest, this country is going backwards as wool prices are dropping while opperation costs are rising.

One exception to this is the Lightening Ridge area that has the only black opals in the world, it is hard mongel country and has been exhausted of opals so the miners are now targeting local grazing properties to expand there opperations, as the miners don't usually reinstate the land after mining and there is little top soil, graziers are saying they will just have to walk off. The opals are pretty but you can't eat them. My own farm has saphire claims on it but I hold the irrigation rights, a saphire miner said to me the other day saphires have come up in price and are the new "Europe Gold" :(  most of my creek has already been mined (with exception of under our house) so hopefully we'll be O.K.

I am not against progresion but lets fill our stomacks first.
If you start feeling "Blue" ...breath    JD 5510 86hp 4WD loader Lucas 827, Pair of Husky's 372xp, 261 & Stihl 029

SwampDonkey

What we have also lost since my grandfather's time in the farming business is folks willing to give a friendly hand with the knowledge that tomorrow someone in the community was going to be available to help me to.

I've seen small farms here support large families because they worked together (like a commune that has lasted for well over 100 years) not only family members but members of their faith. While a farm 10 times larger struggles or gets turned over 3 or 4 times in 10 years, snow balling in size as it's amalgamated to other farms. The big farmer competes with other big farmers who may be quite interested in how they are doing but would be just as happy if the processor bought all his potatoes and put him on the "top ten list" and let his neighbor's potatoes rot in the bins that were equally as good. No operating loan for you says the bank, because you have no contract with the processor this year. Oh, I see your farm is for auction says the processor, I guess we'll take it. ::)

Wilddog, the farmer always takes the hit in price. I look for wool products, now it's mixed mostly with synthetics made off shore. No, not always China but dirt poor nations in Central America and Middle Asia. Those garments wave old brand names and great big prices. A cashmere sweeter only has to have about 15% cashmere apparently, because that's about the most I see on labels. Then, the accompanying fibrer that is used is usually a derivative of rayon and they don't compliment one another too well because the wool fibre does not weave well to it. Take your sweeter off and your undershirt is still wearing the wool. ::)

Just next door, they have 1 green house they start in March growing lettuce and beat greens. In the summer they grow root crops, maybe a tiny acreage of corn, beans and this year seems most of the farm is buckwheat (I gotta have my pancakes ;) ) They gather produce all week in the summer and it's hand washed and loaded up for a farmer's market 100 miles away where they have a booth on Saturdays. The old man (not really old) came there with about a dozen children 3 years ago and he had one son that he got married off. Son was left to take over the farm while he and the family moved on and possibly starting another farm. But, I have seen as many as 6 young people and none would be 20 years old work there in the summer farming. They seem to be paying the bills and eating good. The neighbor that lived there before grew up and farmed as his father did, his only son wasn't much for the farm business as it turns out, but he grew up in a family of 4 siblings off that tiny farm. The old man never had more than 100 acres of potatoes and maybe 25 milk cows and little fields he rented to grow oats and some taters. A lot of the acreage on his home farm was just hay fields. He never bought brand new and never owed anyone anything. Most of the hired hands on these farms can only be provided employment on a seasonal basis and not enough to survive on because who can live off 2-3 days of work at $10 an hour and how long are they going to be loyal and stick around or care whether they even get out of bed or insure a car to get there?
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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DanG

Getting back to Warbird's post # 3, I think the term he meant to use was "socialized."  If that's the case, the statement was right on.  Socialized is just the opposite of self-sufficiency, and the more crammed in people are, the less self-sufficient they can be.  You can't raise much food in an apartment, so you pay others to raise it for you, etc.  That is a far cry from Socialism, which is a political arrangement that oppresses, and suppresses a person's opportunities and incentives.

Before people were socialized, everyone had to do everything for themselves.  Then it occurred to someone that they could do better if each did one thing.  The small farmer was just about the last group to become socialized, but they finally made it.  Almost all farms these days are specialized, and produce only a few types of products, meaning that the families that own them are socialized.  However, as long as they still own the land and their freedom, they can go back to self-sufficiency to whatever degree their capabilities allow.  They can co-exist with a socialized society, but not with a Socialist society.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Polly

around here f h a  owns a lot of it ,most farmers can barely keep up the interest payments let alone pay off the principal :( :(

Tim/South

In the "old" days we always raised a large garden for our selves and also some truck crops to sell. I remember my grandfather not planting certain crops because a neighbor always planted extra and we swapped. All of us families who had dirt digging in our DNA traded with each other and it seemed so natural back then.
Now I only grow a little hay and raised a few head of cattle. I have not plowed and planted much over an acre in years.

This past year I had people stop and ask if I rented "plots" for people to grow vegetable gardens. That concept seemed very strange to me. Had my little podunk community become so "uppity" that growing your own veggies was now the in thing to do?
It really made me stop and think about how much my local environment had gradually changed over the last 30 years.
Now and then someone will stop and make a ridiculously low offer for a piece of my "pasture land that is not being used".
Last year a real estate lady made an offer "I could not refuse".
Neither the city slicker or the real estate person seems to understand that I wear overalls because of choice and not necessity. Neither could answer the question of where my cows would graze if I sold the piece land?
Looking around I now realize there are only a few of the old farms still intact in my community.
I am glad both my son and daughter love the land and understand our name has been on some of the deeds since the mid 1800's.
There are some things money just can not buy even if you are down to eating beans and cornbread.

SwampDonkey

Nothing wrong with beans and cornbread.   :) 8)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WH_Conley

Bill

SwampDonkey

Up here in the north, the old fashioned way to cook a baked bean is in a fire pit in the ground all day. We call'm "bean-hole beans", they do in Maine as well. That's the way they did it in the lumber camps in my grandfather's time and before. Mom and dad just had a feed of'm down at the lumberman's museum in Patton, Maine. They went with folks that grow baking beans in Woodstock. They grow 3 varieties mentioned in this article.

http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-bin/page.cgi/es/me/beans_1
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tim/South

Quote from: SwampDonkey on August 20, 2009, 04:33:19 AM
Nothing wrong with beans and cornbread.   :) 8)
I agree.
But after about a week my wife says it gets old. ;)

Rather than go into the "emergency" money, but more to make a point, we went on a bean diet many years ago. It was after a hasty expenditure was made with out my consultation. "Someone" spent the grocery money.
I figured if she stayed, I had a keeper.
That was 27 years ago and we have never eaten beans out of necessity since.

Magicman

Since we individually don't grow enough food to sustain ourselves, we are dependent on mega-marts.  When a hurricane comes through, of course we loose power.  Without power the stores close.  It doesn't take many days until folks panic.  I own my tree farm, but I don't actually grow anything to eat besides our garden and that's seasonal.
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It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SwampDonkey

I know of a lot of folks that lived off beans, bread and molasses and maybe some milk and eggs.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Kodiakmac

There's absolutely no question about who will own Canadian farmland:  the governments and the Environmental NGOs. 

Despite our national superiority complex about our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, there is no "right to use, own and enjoy property" in our Constitution.  This has left the door wide open for the mtual benefit of our governments and the NGOs. 

On a regular basis, some new piece of environmental legislation imposes yet another restriction on land use, yet the majority of farmers and their farm organizations are more concerned about subsidy cheques, grants and protecting unsustainable supply-mangement marketing systems, than they are about the greater danger of collectivism that is occurring before their eyes.

The fact that I'll be able to sit back in my old age and say "I told you so" doesn't bring me much happiness.

Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
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Magicman

Not good.... >:( >:(   At least we think that we own ours..... ::)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WildDog

I have concerns with the continual cutting up of larger viable stand alone farms into smaller parcels with the end result a heap of hobby/lifestyle farms.

These smaller farms are O.K. if the owners have the knowledge and off farm income etc to care for weeds, pest animals, fences and such but one main problem is the loss of jobs for farm hands as these. I find a lot of the time city people chasing the "tree change" are taking up these blocks and don't always possess the tolerance to farming like noise from saw mills, chainsaws, tractors, pumps, the dust kicked up by vehicles on dirt roads and in my job where I issue permits to graze livestock on roads I get complaints from people driving through cow pats.


http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=7259177&f=0&p=10&t=rur&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=1423078&s=nsw&snf=rbs&tm=1250886776

This is my 1st time trying to post a link not sure if its going to work, its a farm near mine that was offered as a whole for around 4million but didn't sell and is now offered as 3 separate parcells.
If you start feeling "Blue" ...breath    JD 5510 86hp 4WD loader Lucas 827, Pair of Husky's 372xp, 261 & Stihl 029

Roxie

The farms and (failed) horse farmettes in this area are snapped up by the Amish.  Whether public auction or private sale, they are there cash in hand.  Thank God. 

Say when

SwampDonkey

A lot of farms in the last 15 years have been purchased by similar folk here. But, I know many are not "cash in hand" sales. Our government has been known to lease at $1 an acre for 5 years and then a purchase is made for so much on the dollar. Not too many sold here with out big brother's hand.  And hardly ever a purchase based on true market fairness. I've seen a lot of crooked stuff go on, believe me.  :-X
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Polly

polly just came in from the garden with extra sweet sugar corn cucumbers white half runner beans squash potatoes and she just hollered for supper i gotta go  8) 8) :D

DanG

Eat hearty, Ronnie! 8) 8)  Well, I guess you already have, and have your feet sticking up out of that Lazy-Boy. :D :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

moonhill

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6736846601041698993

A little refresher in history to go along with the land grabbing in Africa. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

Ron Wenrich

I learned a long time ago, that what you see in land ownership patterns is not what has always been.  When I would set up a timber sale, I would always run a title search to make sure the lines were what the were supposed to be.  At times, I could run these searches back to the original warrant deed.  Even original land grants were not that large.

I worked several jobs with nice size timber that had been farmland in the past.  On one sale, we followed the original rocks on a zig-zag fence, which means it was originally a pasture.  On another sale, there was an entire farm that had been left go to forest way back in the late 1800s.  Forestland had been increasing at the expensive of farmland since the early 1900s.  That has stopped in the 1990s in many areas. 

In my area, one of the larger farm owners was an equipment dealer.  He sold farm equipment right after WWII.  He sold it on credit and had the farmers use their farms as collateral.  When they couldn't make payments, he took the farm. 

Most of the guys around here that are doing farming full time will lease farm ground.  I've seen them on some pretty small plots.  With the industrialization of the food sources, there isn't as much of a need for the sprawling farms that provided grazing areas.  They feedlot the animals.  The biggest problem is what to do with all the manure.

Since 1950, the population in the world has gone up 267%.  That means that food output had to match that.  The bigger question isn't who's going to own the farmland, but will the farms be able to match output with consumption. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

SwampDonkey

I think that also comes down to farm policy and people's lifestyles to. Take this country for instance, we produce way more than we can eat by far. But, also many of our food imports are being subsidized by a cheap food policy. It's nice to have cheap food, but who is actually paying for it under the paperwork? Someday, someone is going to say it's just too expensive to ship a pineapple to NB from Costa Rica, or too expensive to ship strawberries from California to Newfoundland. Not only that, but nobody will be buying them because they won't be $2.99 a box, but 8.99 a box. Blueberries and raspberries out of season are about $8 a handful fresh. Marketing them as AntiOx will get a few health nuts to buy, but the average Joe walks bye. They usually lay in the store and rot or they make parfaits from them just before they turn to mush and sell them for about $4 each for 4 cups out of that handful mixed with yogurt and granola.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

crtreedude

I find people in small communities more dependent than those is cities. This is because you have to rely on our neighbor instead of just renting something. Small communities work together to get things done, and know who the deadbeats are. Larger communities tend to put things in the hands of the government.

Who will own the land? Those who are meek. Jesus said that many, many years ago and not surprising, it what I see all the time. Those who feel they need to show off their wealth by having cars and fancy clothes tend to lose what they have, but those who meekly go out to work day by day and continue work and making more valuable the land they have, they will hold onto their land, and increase it.

Large corporations appear to be winning, but really they just look like it. Long term, they fade and die.
So, how did I end up here anyway?

moonhill

The bulk of our wild blueberries are frozen within 24 hours, this way they will not rot on the store shelf, and are available year round.  I would not mind seeing them in California at $8.00/half pint.

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

SwampDonkey

I get them fresh during the season in the store for $13 a 5 lb box. I froze one box, but I have several of my own raspberries frozen which I eat mostly in parfaits. I'll put some frozen blueberries in my cornbread. I make cornbread instead of muffins. I don't buy muffins because they are more like cake, expensive cake at that.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ironmower

I hole-heartedly believe farmers will still "own" the farmland. You cannot "mechanize" everything for the better. The only thing I wonder, is there going to be any "true" farmers left. I mean true in the form of knowing the land, working the land. Books and schooling is great, but it don't grow the crops. My feeling is, that "most" people believe that their fruits, vegetables, and meats, come from the grocery store.

In the past 15 yrs or so, I've seen some of the best farm ground in my local quad-state area, that is nothing but giant summer homes for the wealthy. The orchards I growed up on, is just that. Sickening!

I'm not tryin to rub anybody the wrong way, but my uneducated thinkin tells me that if we, as the human race keeps trying to save "everybody" from illness, diseases, wars and mothernature we are destine for failure. Yes, I want to live a long healthy life, just like everybody else. Even if it does take medical attention. I guess the point I'm tryin' to make is, the plantet is over-populated, which throws the delicate balance outa-wack. I hope the good lord above has a plan.
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DanG

Quote from: Ironmower on August 25, 2009, 09:18:05 PM
my uneducated thinkin tells me that if we, as the human race keeps trying to save "everybody" from illness, diseases, wars and mothernature we are destine for failure. Yes, I want to live a long healthy life, just like everybody else. Even if it does take medical attention. I guess the point I'm tryin' to make is, the plantet is over-populated, which throws the delicate balance outa-wack. I hope the good lord above has a plan.

That doesn't sound like an uneducated mind to me, it sounds like a mind that has not been polluted. ;)  The Good Lord does have a plan, according to my beliefs.  That plan has already been executed when he gave us a soul, a conscience, the power of reasoning, and opposable thumbs.  He gave us dominion over the Earth, and charged us with the responsibility to manage it wisely.  If we continue to adapt to the changes that inevitably happen, we will continue to survive, just like the alligator and the cockroach.  If we fail to adapt, we will go the way of the dinosaur, and become fuel for the next stewards of this planet.

IMHO, "owning" land is simply holding control of it, or "owning" the right to control it, as far as man is concerned.  A true farmer doesn't own his land, but rather the land owns HIM!

As long as we remain free to use the gifts we have been given, there will be farmers that just keep getting better.  If we continue to disempower people to control their own destiny, the farmers will not do so well, and there will be a famine.  The people who don't know where their food comes from will either wise up, or starve....simple as that.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Ironmower on August 25, 2009, 09:18:05 PM
My feeling is, that "most" people believe that their fruits, vegetables, and meats, come from the grocery store.

Mom was in the farmer's market over a year ago in early April. This was a time that most farmers were just thinking of scratching the land. This one patron comes by and asks:

Patron: "Do you see any fresh local corn today?"

Mom: "No dear not today"

::) ::)

Now I live in Carleton county, NB and this is definitely someone who has led a different path in life than I. We probably have the choicest ground in the province for growing food or trees, but corn don't grow like Jack's beanstalk. You certainly can't say this person has the general attitude of folks around here because this is an entirely rural area and most everyone knows about what it takes to grow stuff as far as weather and climate. Makes you shake your head sometimes.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Norm

On our local radio station they had a quiz, what percentage of farm land in Iowa is still considered a family farm. The correct answer was 95%.

DanG

Norm, is most of that land still farmed by the owners, or is there a lot of renting and leasing going on?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Magicman

Quote from: DanG on August 25, 2009, 11:55:52 PM
IMHO, "owning" land is simply holding control of it, or "owning" the right to control it, as far as man is concerned.  A true farmer doesn't own his land, but rather the land owns HIM!

Very well said DanG.  I "own" a 346 acre tree farm.  Does that mean that it is mine?  Not hardly.  I'm simply it's "caretaker" for my lifetime.  It's my responsibility to pass it on in better condition than when I got it.   Plain and simple....
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

crtreedude

Quote from: Magicman on August 26, 2009, 09:01:33 AM
Quote from: DanG on August 25, 2009, 11:55:52 PM
IMHO, "owning" land is simply holding control of it, or "owning" the right to control it, as far as man is concerned.  A true farmer doesn't own his land, but rather the land owns HIM!

Very well said DanG.  I "own" a 346 acre tree farm.  Does that mean that it is mine?  Not hardly.  I'm simply it's "caretaker" for my lifetime.  It's my responsibility to pass it on in better condition than when I got it.   Plain and simple....

That is our view as well. I am a steward of everything that the good Lord gave us. I need to be a faithful one.  And I will say, even after all these years, I still think it is a miracle when a seed sprouts. I could watch that all day long, except weed seeds of course...
So, how did I end up here anyway?

Don_Papenburg

I had a couple Bu. of green beans to sell at the farmers market  aweek ago .  Alittle girl and her mom stopped by . The girl was about 3rd or 4th grade .    She asked why there was a leaf in the beans .  I told her it was a bean leaf .   ABEAN LEAF?  I didn't know beans had leaves.  I said well actualy the bean plant has the leaf .and it got in there  when i was picking  .  A BEAN PLANT ? I didn't know beans had plants.    So I said yes they grow on a plant.   
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Cedarman

CR, cedars are considered weeds in many places, especially Oklahoma.  And I love those weeds. :D :D   I look fondly at those little seedlings on the ranches we cut.  The owner has about 4 or 5 years after we remove the trees to have a controlled burn or we get to visit again in another 25 to 30 years.  Many are those that hate cedars, and few of us that love them.   Ahhh, weeds. :D :D
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

jim king

I am surprised that no one has mentioned this. 

Don`t pay your taxes for a couple of years and lets see who really owns everything.

Like it or not everyone is a renter.

SwampDonkey

I've been saying it for years Jim. We're just paying rent. And the kicker is, someone can snipe it up from under you after 3 years by paying the taxes and buying it on auction. As an example, some older folks who loose there mind and live alone have the money and often cheques hidden in tea cups and never cashed. Some one gets their 300 acre farm and woodlot for maybe $50,000.  I've seen a local saw mill get 200 acre of woods for as little as $20,000 cash. In many instances the old timer is still living in the past and doesn't have any idea of land value. :-X :-X
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Kodiakmac

Quotesome older folks who loose there mind and live alone have the money and often cheques hidden in tea cups and never cashed. Some one gets their 300,000 acre farm and woodlot for maybe $50,000.

At least these poor folks have an excuse - they've lost their mind.  It's the perfectly sane, normal folks who are sitting back and allowing their governments to continuously undermine their property rights that get my goat.  And in this part of the country, the majority of farmers are in that category.

You can't get the average farmer off his butt until the government wolves are at his door.
Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
Kioti rx7320, Wallenstein fx110 winch, Echo CS510, Stihl MS362cm, Stihl 051AV, Wallenstein wx980  Mark 8:36

ARKANSAWYER

  My family was farmers since they was kicked out of Ireland.  Then them DanG carpetbaggers run them off the plantation after the war and they farmed the swamps of eastern Arkansas till the 1950's.  My Pa did not want to farm (GrandPa was up to 200 acres and two tractors) nor did my uncle.  So after he died the land was least to next farm over.  The land was sold by kin for about half price so they could steal the money from a feable old woman. ( hope they get a good seat at the table in Hell)  Only one of the family farms now and he does 4,000 acres in eastern Arkansas.   He makes good money but works hard for it.  If it were not for his Grandparents leaving his pa in good shape he would not ever be able to do it.
  But I see less and less farmers and fewer younger ones at that.  Corps will take over as most are buying the crops a year in advance.  Cuz sells about half of his like this.  Last time we spoke he told me that General Mills wanted to buy his whole rice crop.  He told them no but offered them half.  Riceland made a better deal so he went with them.  When it came time to harvest the rice diesel was $3.50 a gallon so he lost money on half his crop but made money on the other half.
   I would find it hard to think I had to sell boards for a set price now and not even buy the logs and saw the lumber till next summer.   Be a hard row to hoe.
ARKANSAWYER

Magicman

I own 346 acres in my tree farm.  My property tax bill last year was $3,897.00.  That doesn't include liability insurance or any upkeep.  Say I make a timber sale every 10 years.   That's over 40g's skimmed right off of the top.  I'm really not complaining, that's just reality....
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

maple flats

As has been said before, buy land, that is the only thing they aren't making any more of. I own about 40 acres, more than my parents ever owned, but I am looking for more. I do farm much of it but did not grow up on a farm. I have 3 acres of scotch pine, 4.5 acres of blueberries, and about 1.5 acres of  vegetable garden, and 12 acres of tree farm (managed hard and soft wood. We sell blueberries, fresh vegies, make and sell maple syrup. But, we are still not making as much as we should to account for what we consume in a year. Like most others we are a drain on food supplies rather than a contributor.
This world needs more who add more than they consume. With deminishing farm land the food supply will slide until a balance is reached between population and food supply.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

jim king

I was just reading the Minneapolis Sunday paper and came across this link which pertains to this blog.

http://www.startribune.com/business/35242889.html

SwampDonkey

I don't buy anything with palm oil and try to avoid anything with bean gums. I just checked around my cupboard and not a single item contains palm oil. A couple items contain a bean gum and they are fig bars and granola bars. I don't buy ice cream and I don't buy yogurt with any kind of bean gum. My margarine is non hydrogenated, and although I don't buy it, I believe butter is better for you. When I was a kid in school everyone took peanut butter sandwiches some time throughout the school year. And if you had a turkey sandwich, you would rather trade for peanut butter. Now we have all these allergies to it and people actually getting very sick or die. I never heard tell of anyone dying or getting sick from it when I was a kid. There is so much poison in that boxed and bottled food, no wonder people get sick. It's starting to catch up with our health. The majority of folks can't believe some corporation would poison us and at the same time getting the stamp of approval. Then it don't help that people are getting too lazy to cook, it would actually be cheaper to eat if you prepared your own instead of eating Swanson's  casserole in wrapped in plastic in a  paper box to be microwaved in 3 minutes. Mmm mmm the taste of plastic in my dinner. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ARKANSAWYER


  I am getting where I do not eat much that has more then 5 ingredients in it.  Other then Dr Pepper I have cut out alot of stuff.  We can and put up alot of our food and catch or kill most of the rest if we do nor raise it.  Finding that sheep eat pretty good and are easier to take care of then cows and pigs. 
  I have wondered if you were to lock some people in on a piece of land how much would it take to feed them?  Here it takes about 3 to 5 acres of grass to feed one cow all year.   Back last winter when the ice storm hit and people could not get to WalMart every day you thought that they were going to starve to death.

 
ARKANSAWYER

moonhill

Depends on how many "some people" is.  Just one cow?  How about a bull for continuance, that ups the acreage.  Climate, and other factors......

What do you do with a sassy goat or sheep?

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

ARKANSAWYER


  We put them in little white packages and hold them in the freezer.
ARKANSAWYER

stonebroke

And I bet they taste good too.

Stonebroke

sjfarkas

It's getting late here so if my mind wanders, well it wanders.  I am a farmer by day and in California for that matter.  The water is going to be the fight.  Since our population has increased and the hippy enviros want more back and then the drought we're in they take it from Ag.  90% of the worlds almonds come from the San Joaquin Valley and over 75% of the nations lettuce comes from Fresno County alone.  California produces such a high percentage of our Nations food and the water is deemed better served for people to drink, flush toilets and water lawns than grow our nations food.  No one sees the writing on the wall.  The enviros in California are going to screw up our nations food supply. Then we'll have to outsource our oil, timber and food.  I hope this rambling makes sense to at least one person.
Always try it twice, the first time could've been a fluke.

DanG

SJ, it makes a pisspot full of sense to me.  But, in the inimatable words of the whore, Sean Hannity, "Let not your heart be troubled."  It is true that a lot of food is produced in your State, but we will not starve for the lack of lettuce or almonds.  There are always grits and collards! ;D 8) 8)  Seriously though, the destruction of a local agricultural economy is strictly an economic issue at this point in the game.  We are several years out from the famine stage of Obama's plan, and we should be well rid of him before that happens.  Take heart in the fact that he is a moron.

Caveat:  I don't know if anyone has noticed or even cares, but since my recent heart attack, I have found it increasingly difficult to mince my words, as has always been my practice.  I hope that you all will forgive me for simply speaking my mind. ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

SwampDonkey

That must be quite the whore Dang. Ooops  :-X
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

moonhill

This is a test, please stand by...

jrdwyer

Some great responses to this post.

World population control is definitely the big issue that will have to someday be addressed.

sjfarkas, it seems so simple to just ban watering lawns and limiting washing cars everywhere in CA and use the water for food production. Green grass in the summer when CA bakes or enough food to feed the nation, I'll take the latter.

Speaking of CA foods, I have started to supplement my diet with English walnuts for the cholesterol reducing effects. My first blood test ever to check such things occurred recently and although my LDL/HDL ratio was deemed a "less than average risk", my LDL (bad) and HDL (good) numbers were both high. I will be eating more oatmeal for breakfast and using olive oil in salads. My wife and I have also gotten very used to eating the convenient "Fresh Express" brand CA leaf spinach instead of iceberg lettuce for salads. Tomatoes come from the home garden, when in season.

gemniii

Quote from: sjfarkas on September 03, 2009, 02:15:23 AM90% of the worlds almonds come from the San Joaquin Valley and over 75% of the nations lettuce comes from Fresno County alone.
And probably 100% of the world does not REQUIRE almonds and 50% of the nation could grow their own lettuce or do with something else.
To the OP:
Who will own farmland in the future?
The smart.
Corporations and govt will try to take it over.  However corporations usually have share holders.  Often it only takes a few bad quarters and they decide to bail.
Barring a major war or depression land ownership changes hands gradually.  In our recent recession I really only was able to pick up about 20 acres from a relative for a discount.  Houses were going for firesale prices but land has held up moderately well in my area of interest.
To me the real danger is people mortgaging their future and their childrens future for present pleasure.  And then the note is sold to a foreign govt.  Now whatever real estate they have can pass to the lender.
And whatever they grow on it will make money for the lender.  And you worried about lead in Chinese toys.
So the smart will own the land.  Presently that makes it look like alot of the farmland will be owned by the lender 
In May 2009, the US owed China $772 billion.
Quote
In effect, every person in the (rich) United States has over the past 10 years or so borrowed about $4,000 from someone in the (poor) People's Republic of China.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/fallows-chinese-dollars
In my neck of the woods that's 2 to 4 acres.

So I've got nothing against the Chinese or the Amish.  But if your not among the smart you probably won't be owning land except by inheritance.

SwampDonkey

Corporations own just enough land to meet their short term needs. It's the same in forestry as in farming. If the forestry companies depended entirely on free hold lands then they would have been moth balled around here decades ago. If McCain's owned all the land then they would not be able to beat the farmers on prices, and steal their 20 % back they gave them on price increase or not honor a delivery schedule so a producer has a chance to meet it. Right now some farmers have to hold onto produce a whole year before it's moved and kept in cool storage and hope they don't loose grade by the time the powers that be ask for them to deliver at their whim. How can they loose?
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Cedarman

Until recently farmers could not take land that had been in governement programs and use an acre for truck crops.  If they did, the whole farm came out of the government program. These laws were put in place to protect the California and Florida growers.IMHO
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

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