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towing a fifth wheel

Started by maple flats, July 25, 2009, 05:57:34 PM

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maple flats

My wife and I just bought a 5th wheel camper. Initially it will be set up in our wood lot not far from the spot where we will be building our home.
I have some questions and thoughts. Comments welcome.  I will be looking to get a different truck for occasional towing. The unit weighs 8600# and will likely go a few hundred over that during travel with water, food, clothes and other things that I always seem to view as necessary even though my wife views many as junk. I feel it should be capable of 10,000# to be safe. A local dealer says 3/4 ton is good, thoughts please. I was also thinking of converting to gooseneck until I learned that many manufacturers void a warranty if a gooseneck adapter is used because of the extra stresses associated with having the mount setting up on a 12-14-or 16" extension. The claim is that the stress can cause problems with the integrity of the window, door and slideouts. Any thoughts please. My plan was to go gooseneck to have more room in the truck bed, I may need to get a easily removable 5th wheel hitch instead.
For anyone familiar with 5th wheels, we got a Keystone Sprinter 282 (28.2'?) with 2 slideouts and what we think is a fantastic floor layout and high ceilings so it doesn't feel crowded (even though we are average height or slightly less).
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Dave Shepard

10k behind a 3/4 is fine. Most are rated for much more than that for fifth-wheel and gooseneck applications. That's a bummer on the warranty, I much prefer gooseneck over fifth-wheel. Why waste your entire bed for that big hitch? >:(
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

sawman

 Might check out the B & W turnover ball with the Companion fifth wheel. I don't have the fifth wheel, but do have the gooseneck hitch. Should be easy enough to remove and re install when u need it, without a lot of hassle.
'14 LT40 Hydraulic 26 HP koehler ,massey ferguson 2200 forklift, Case IH D40
Wallenstein FX85

Roxie

We pull a stock trailer (gooseneck 10,000#'s) with a 3/4 Ton Chevy Silverado, loaded with cows and bulls, with no problem.  

Say when

fishpharmer

You can get a set of rails in the floor of the bed that allows an easy switch from fifth wheel to a plate with gooseneck ball.  Just four pins.  The brand has worn off mine, works good though.  You can have one or another or nothing.  The rails haven't interfered with anything except are a pain when rinsing out the bed.

Congrats on the camper.  We have enjoyed our Keystone.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

woodsteach

3/4 ton should be fine but I'd strongly suggest that you get the air bag suspension kit for the truck.

I reguarly pull my 31' flat bed (20,000lbs rated) loaded w/ 15 -17,000lbs and have done so for 4 yrs w/no problems.  Using my '02 2500hd gmc w/6.0L engine.

woodsteach
Brand X Swing Mill, JD 317 Skidloader, MS460 & 290, the best family a guy could ever dream of...all provided by God up above.  (with help from our banker ; ) )

Gary_C

First thing to be concerned about is braking ability. The brakes on the truck must be good, you must have a good electric brake controller, and the brakes on the trailer need to all be working. The best braking ability in a pickup towing big trailers is a vacuum over hydraulic system, but that requires a trailer with that type of setup and a vacuum pump on the truck.

Next thing is the pulling ability of the pickup. The truck must be set up for towing with extra cooling on the transmission if it is an automatic. The hard part in pulling a 5th wheel camper is the wind resistance rather than the weight. That high profile can be very hard pulling and cause overheating and engine valve damage. I've seen pickups that regularly pulled 5th wheel campers that had exhaust gas temperature and transmission temperature sensors.

Overall braking ability is the weakness in pickups pulling large trailers. Braking on a downhill ramp when exiting an interstate highway can be very difficult and those electric brake controllers do not do well in downhill braking. If you have any long hills to deal with, they can overheat your brakes ad they will fade if you ride them too much. You really have to learn how to allow more distance and anticipate the need for braking.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

maple flats

The part about planning ahead is no problem for me. I have hauled heavy equipment in the past and always follow that advise. I will still need to look out for the "idiots" who cut in and out of traffic and pull out in front of a heavier rig with no concern for stopping distance. As for the goose neck working with no problems, I have hauled rigs in the past up to almost 18,000#, with a trailer designed as a goose neck. The problem is when a 5th wheel designed trailer is converted to goose neck as I understand it. This trailer has electric brakes. I personally have never had problems with electric brakes except if a trailer has set idle for a long time. I think some rust builds up on the rotor and the electro magnet doesn't work properly. I always test the brakes as I start out, if needed I hold the brake actuating lever on some for a mile or 2 and test again. This has always worked in the past. Any truck I get will have a tranny cooler and maybe an oversized radiator if I see a rise in temp that concerns me.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Reddog

Congrats on the new 5th wheel.

Gooseneck conversations are a no no. Travel trailers have very little in over design for the frames, so that added stress of a goose neck is not good.
As said before B&W are good hitches that can be taken out easily.
Also the company seems to try and do things right on many levels. http://www.turnoverball.com/news_details.asp?id=247#

For those on dial up, B&W is paying employees to do work around town instead of laying them off. Goes a long way in todays world for a corporation to think about options from layoffs. Plus they are a MADE IN THE USA hitch.

stonebroke

I just bought my second B and W. I highly recommend it. I just bought a ford  f350 with dual wheels. I recommend duals. It just makes it more stable. Also one tons are better at braking and pulling in hilly NY terrain.

Stonebroke

Maineloggerkid

Like Gary said- its not what you can pull, its what you can stop. Obviously you know that, but it is very important.

A 3/4 ton should do you fine. I haul an 11,000# rated trailer with my dodge dakota, with my Tractor on it. Highly illegal, but you gotta make do with what you have, I guess. :-\
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

Ironwood

I always err to the heavier side for pulling, BUT given that many states are requiring, or should I say, have begun to enforce the DOT numbers and all the "stuff" that goes with them (IFTA stickers, stopping at weigh stations for anything over 10,000 gvw) and etc... I would stick w/ a truck that is "door jamb" rated under 10,000. Your titling and plating do not matter under DOT, only the manufacturers rating on the door jamb. I have begun to look furhter into all this stuff. In some states even a personally owned and used F-350 would require DOT #'s and stopping at weigh stations. It even goes as far as to say ANY vehical pulling a trailer (RV exempt) where the combo (cumulative) GVW exceeds 10,000 must display DOT#'s and stop at scales.  ::) So my half ton F-150 (5000# gvw) pulling my little trailer (5800# gvw)and tractor must display DOT and stop at scales.

Oh, and by the way "technically" a surge brake does not constitute "a single brake system from front to rear on a truck/ trailer combo" I read where one company was retro fitting their surge brake trailers to less effective electric systems to conform :-[ :-X ::) ??? to the letter of the law.

Learning something new everyday, most days I dont like what I learn :P :D

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Dave Shepard

I'm surprised it has taken this long for the DOT issue to come up here. It's really big around here, to the point of driving people either out of business, or into doing things illegally.  ::) Don't forget the DOT physical required for all DOT trucks. ;)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Ironwood

I just renewed my DOT physical card (good for two years here in Pa.). I will likely get some DOT #'s sometime this year. Real pain w/ all the details go w/ it (paper work, etc..) >:( I am thinking of going to a 3/4 ton truck just to avoid some issues, actually will look for an older Ford w/ gvw as close to 10,000 as possible ::)

       Iornwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Larry

Another B & W hitch owner.  I originally bought the turnover gooseneck with no plan to add a fifth wheel.  Bought the Companion fifth wheel later when a couple of RV owners asked if I would tow there trailers to the lake for them.  I can move there trailers couple of times a year for less than insurance/tax on a truck would be.  I think I would feel more comfortable with dual rear wheels.  Maybe a heavy cross wind wouldn't blow me around as bad.

Ironwood I have a 97 F350 PSD single wheel with 9,000 GVW on the door jam...and no intentions on getting rid of it.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Qweaver

Whao Nelly,  I must have missed this change!  I thought that 26000 was the point at where a CDL and DOT numbers were required.
I have a 3/4 ton chevy pickup (9200 gvw) and a 14000 gvw gooseneck trailer and thought I was legal.  I regularly travel between WV and Texas passing many inspection stations in the process and have never been challenged.  This is rediculas if true.
Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Ironwood

Whoa Nelly,
 

It is true. Many states have NOT been enforcing these Federal DOT regs. on smallish trucks As budgets tighten things are changing. Here in Pa. they pendulum has begun to swing. DOT#'s,  fire extingusers, safety triangles, medical cards, and other stuff (fuel sticker not so much). Google search DOT trailer regs, there is some mighty GOOD reading.

I have had numerous friends pulled over in f-250 and f-350 trucks both w/ and without trailers. Sometimes getting tickets for crap like "unsecure load" for firewood (in a half ton truck) and for a loose chainsaw in the back of a one ton (they did check him for fire extingiser and triangles).

The fun never ends.  >:( part of the problem IS lack of knowlege (public) and random enforcement (police/ State's DOT). IF the real situation were known by the public there would be a major outcry.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

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