What To Expect From Resharpened Blades

[james04]

About two months ago I had 8 Cooks Super Sharps resharpened by one of the big blade manufactures. The blades do not seem to cut as smooth or last as long as when they were new. Getting frustrated a took a closer look at the blades and it seems the wheel used to sharpen them was fairly coarse and there is quite a noticeable bur on the inside edge of the blades. Is this normal and to be expected from resharpened blades?

James

[WH_Conley]

I would expect some burr. Would also expect to be sharpened with a fine stone.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  I use WM blades and they cut smoother when they come back from Re-Sharp and as long.  I used Cooks Super Sharps and if I remember right they have a heat treated tip.  So it would take a good grind to get them back to shape.  A small burr is not umcommon.  But it should cut as good as a new one.

[james04]

Hi Guys,

Thank you for the replies. I would have liked to use WM for sharpening but when I called they told me they no longer sharpen other brands.

I was just looking at the rest of the blades. There is just way too much of a burr on there. In fact after use you can see that the burr is flattened over. Therefore dragging in the cut. It is causing head shake and bogging of the motor. They do cut when fresh but just do not last as long and some give allot more of a wash board finish then I got before the re sharp.

The guy that did the sharpening did not have the correct cam. But since he uses the sharpening equipment from Cooks. He got the cam so that he could do my blades and any future Super Sharps that came his way. The profile matched perfectly so I know he indeed did get the proper cam. But I was wondering if there are more than one grit stone. One for hogging material and then one for finishing.

He seemed like a nice enough gentleman on the phone. So I am hopping he will take are of me. But it just seems that if you set the teeth you would have to notice that the blades came out poorley. What do you think am I off base?

James

[LeeB]

I suspect he took a realy heavy grind rather than two or three light grinds. I usualy set then sharpen so the burr doesn't affect the set. Ask him about it and let him know you aren't happy. Unhappy customers don't keep coming back.

[beenthere]

Sounds like he is being too aggressive, and needs to make 2 or maybe 3 passes to get the band to fit his cam. Are there any burned tips showing up?

Not off base.
It is your money, so the end result should be what you want (or find someone who will do it right).    IMO

Like LeeB says (faster than I)

[woodmills1]

I always get a burr and that is sometimes how I can tell a sharp from a non.  My self sharpened blades, that didn't hit metal before resharp, cut as well or better than new

[Handy Andy]

  I've been sending my blades back to Cook's, as there is no one around here that sharpens, and they cut better than new.  Takes them a while to get back.  Must sharpen a lot of blades. 

[Banjo picker]

Hi Guys,
They do cut when fresh but just do not last as long and some give allot more of a wash board finish then I got before the re sharp.

James

If I understand by "wash board"  .....probably a few teeth on the band, (possibly only one) got over set.....Or are you talking about wavey lumber  ???  Tim

[mike_van]

  I've been sending my blades back to Cook's, as there is no one around here that sharpens, and they cut better than new.  Takes them a while to get back.  Must sharpen a lot of blades. 

I sent mine back to Cooks for years [before buying the Cat Claw]  They always came back in fine shape. When you can't hear the blade go into the log, that baby's sharp.  Jim, Tim Cook told me once how many blades they do in a day, but right off hand I can't remember. They had several sharpeners running all day long, someone just feeding bands to them.

[robnrob2]

What was not done by your sharpening service after the grind, is to drag a piece of steel cutting bar-stock, on the inside of the band, drag in the direction the teeth are pointing and that cuts the grind bur off, I sharpen my own and this is the last process done before tagging and folding the blade.

[james04]

Thank you all for your replies. Just to answer some of the questions that have been posted.

Wash board= yes the pattern left by the teeth. I had assumed that it was a miss set tooth until another blade was doing the same and I discovered the burrs. One was so bad I decided best not to use it. I am starting to think I have the results of a rush job on my hands.

Would it be advisable to mount the offending blade in the mill and use a dial indicator to find the high tooth and then set that tooth with a pair of pliers?

I would have used Cook's if it was not for the $38 shipping cost each way. I can't believe they do not have any special rates set up if they are sharpening the kind of volume that was implied.

Finally I have been contacted by WM off list. I have been informed that what I was told was not correct and that they do indeed sharpen other brands of blades. So I will be using them in the future.

James

[mike_van]

James, Cooks used to pay the return ups if you sent 10 blades or more - Like everything else these days, I guess the cost got to be too much to absorb.

[ladylake]

 Keep in mind that most lumber gets planed from 1" tp 13/16 or so, even if it's a little rough it won't matter.    Steve

[james04]

Hi Steve,

I was not concerned about the finish on the wood. Rather I was using it to judge the performance of the blades. Since I know what I properly performing blade produced.

I actually cut my 4/4 closer to 1 1/8" for the oak and ash I have been doing since I am drying my own lumber in a DIY kiln using a house dehumidifier and am still learning the art. So far I have been able to yield an average of about 7/8" finished. But am still being cautious. Since by the time the lumber is ready for use. I already have allot invested as far as time an labor.

James

[LeeB]

James, is the washboarding you describe cut marks like from a bent tooth or is it actually closely spaced waviness? Too much set can do that by letting the blade flutter in the kerf.

[Handy Andy]

  My neighbor bought a used 1600, he sends his bands back to Timberking, and told me the other day that it is considerably cheaper shipping to take the box to the post office.  He just sends 6 blades at a time.

[mike_van]

What Jim Said X2  - I too found ups to be the most $$$ now. Fed Ex ground has the best rate out there.

[ladylake]

 I find that when I sharpen my new blades without setting them they're  just as smooth as new, after setting most times they're a little rougher.   Steve

[james04]

James, is the washboarding you describe cut marks like from a bent tooth or is it actually closely spaced waviness? Too much set can do that by letting the blade flutter in the kerf.

Like a bent tooth. I have not put a long strait edge on a freshly cut log but I do not see any waves and the thickness of the boards looks consistent. I am starting to wonder if my problem isn't the burr. But rather too much or inconsistent set. Again head shake and bogging of the engine. I only have a 13hp Honda. This could cause me to believe that the blade is dull when it is still sharp enough for a higher hp machine.

James

[Chuck White]

James; 
I do my own setting and sharpening.  My blades are 1 1/4" .045 10° from Wood-Mizer.
I set my blades first and then sharpen, not to heavy on the sharpening and if necessary, I make a second pass!
I don't deburr my blades and haven't had any trouble with "snaggle-tooth" marks or waviness!
The burr will be virtually gone by the time you get to the other end of the first cut!
I asked around and got lots of help/suggestions and settled on the Cooks Cat Claw sharpener.

Chuck

[logwalker]

If the hook angle is too much it can cause the grabbing and head shaking. Too much set also is a possibility. This is why I sharpen my own. Much easier in the long run. Joe

[boardum]

On these little bands there should be no burr on the back of the tip. From sharpening my own saws, if there is much a burr it's from grinding the face of the tooth to hard. This will be the same as a dull saw.

When you grind bigger bands that require tention, you drag the backs, then cut the face. The smaller bands are opposite, you cut the face of the tooth and the gullet first, and then drag the back of the tooth. On the last pass around just tickle the backs to really polish them up and they will cut like butter.

Yes the grind stones come in different grits. Too course of a stone will, as you described, leave a rough tooth and a course cut on your lumber.

Cyril

[james04]

I have been in contact with the gent who did these blades. It was a positive conversation. He wants his customers to be happy and  is willing to do what it takes to satisfy that. We have agreed upon me using the rest of these blades and then ship them to him for a free sharpening. I am satisfied with that and I would never ask for more than that.

I hope this thread did not come across like I was trying to slam anyone. Because I was not trying to do that. I was just looking for information from a group that knows what can be expected from resharpened blades and I have learned allot. Like I said at the start he seemed like a gentleman on the phone and now has proved to be nothing but.

James

[Chuck White]

Glad you two got things worked out.
He is a gent if he agreed to resharp for free after you explained that you weren't happy with the current resharp.

We all learn when we read posts similar to this one.

Forestry Forum..... What a great place.

Chuck

[barbender]

I sent out a box of 10 blades to be sharpened. This is the first time I've sent blades out. My question is, isn't the whole gullet supposed to be ground? Mine were only ground on the face with a real light grind on the back of the tooth, just on the tip.

[ladylake]

When I sharpen a blade for the first time it most times doesn't hit the whole gullet, on the second sharpening it does. I could adjust my sharpener or go around twice on the first sharpening but don't think it's necessary as the shouldn't have any cracks yet.   Steve

[woodmills1]

Yes, now it is out..............the blade is the secret to this stuff.  I am always amazed when a band I sharpened will not cut some knotty pine well, but will zip right through oak.  I sharpen my own and hate to set.


So, lets hear from some of the more informed

I, personnaly would like a general purpose blade for my LT70 that will do pine both clear and knotty as well as oak.  Those are the 2 I cut the most.  I would not mind needing something different for say spruce(%$#%^  f     DanG spruce  or hickory)

I do not think the burr bothers my cut, but a resharpened blade that already hit metal is always IFFY

BTW, did I mention how often I have a resharpened blade that already hit something..... :D

[backwoods sawyer]

I had one saw in this last batch that I sharpened that had "ALL" the teeth laid over 40-70 to the out side of the  saw. The first time around on the setter I just got the teeth pointed in the correct direction. Then went around two more times to fine tune the set on each tooth including the rakers. It a few teeth that were badly damaged and required about a dozen trips around the grinder. I will watch this saw real closely the first time I run it as it may need more work to get it back where it should be. I just finished sharpening my hardwood saws, and still have the softwood saws to go. I let the saw go around until all of the tooth is sharpened evenly. I had to redress the wheel and realign the sharpener to get that to happen. I keep a magnifying glass handy so that I can take close look at the teeth and if I find one tooth that still needs another pass then it goes around again. 4-6 pass are about average as I take a light grind so as to not over heat the tips.

[LeeB]

I run a minimum of two light passes and  sometimes more. Once I get the band cut to the profile of the cam it's just a matter of keeping the profile on the rock right. Light passes help a lot with this too. A heavy grind tends to eat up the rock and you end up with uneven teeth. Light passes = better sharpening = less wear on the blade and rock. I find that slower is better for me too up to a ppoint. Too slow and I get burnt tips. On the cat claw I try to run at about a 4 on the dial. Gives me time to do other stuff while the band runs round.

[backwoods sawyer]

I have an older woodmizer sharpener, and it seems to do better if I turn it all the way up after I get it to following the tooth. The longer the stone is in contact with the tooth the more the motor bogs down even on a light pass. I like to keep the wheel speed up as much as I can. The cat claw has a bigger motor that will hold the wheel speed thru out the profile.
When you say get things done do you mean clean the shop, wire the trailer plug on the truck, turn a bowl, clean the shop, plane some walnut, clean the shop, build a saddle rack, grease the truck, clean the shop, and take care of other odd jobs around the shop?

[LeeB]

When you say get things done do you mean clean the shop, wire the trailer plug on the truck, turn a bowl, clean the shop, plane some walnut, clean the shop, build a saddle rack, grease the truck, clean the shop, and take care of other odd jobs around the shop?

Mayhaps some of them things but sure not all of them. My shop is a disaster( got a butt chewing over the phone last night from it  >:( ), I don't ride my old horse anymore, and go down to the shop more for alone time and to relax than anthing else.

[boardum]

Woodmills1,
    The band for the Pine and other softwoods, like the spruce, needs a little more set to cut clean. The longer fiber and the pitch all cause more friction than the Oak.

[ladylake]

I had one saw in this last batch that I sharpened that had "ALL" the teeth laid over 40-70 to the out side of the  saw. The first time around on the setter I just got the teeth pointed in the correct direction. Then went around two more times to fine tune the set on each tooth including the rakers. It a few teeth that were badly damaged and required about a dozen trips around the grinder. I will watch this saw real closely the first time I run it as it may need more work to get it back where it should be. I just finished sharpening my hardwood saws, and still have the softwood saws to go. I let the saw go around until all of the tooth is sharpened evenly. I had to redress the wheel and realign the sharpener to get that to happen. I keep a magnifying glass handy so that I can take close look at the teeth and if I find one tooth that still needs another pass then it goes around again. 4-6 pass are about average as I take a light grind so as to not over heat the tips.

It's kind of funny how much time we'll waste on $15 blade. I've done the same thing. must just be to see if we can make it cut again.   Steve

[ladylake]

Woodmills1,
    The band for the Pine and other softwoods, like the spruce, needs a little more set to cut clean. The longer fiber and the pitch all cause more friction than the Oak.

  Yes, lots of set and I like less hook also in dry pine.   Steve

[Chuck White]

I would figure that if a blade is resharpened "correctly", one should be able to expect the same results as with a new blade!

Chuck

[ARKANSAWYER]

  I saw alot of pine and oak and have found that the WM 10 degree works well for both.  I have also noted that the  new 1 1/8 spaced teeth blades cut better in larger logs.  Seems to have more gullet to pull the sawdust out of the cut.  On the LT 70 we are running 1 1/8, 10 degree 0.055's and cut as much oak(300mbdft) as pine(350mbdft).  Each feed just about as fast and cut well with the blades.  Keeping fewer types of blades makes our life easier.  We also saw hickory and cedar with the same blade. 

[NHHillbilly]

I send mine out to be sharpened.  Tell the gentlemen the set And degree i want and he sends them back to me.  He Cleans them before he does anything with them.  Seems to be working great for me.  Very knowledgeable as well.  Been trying to get him to join the forum for a while.  I cant stomach buying a sharpener yet....Still trying to learn to saw too,  no metal yet but my father sure seems to find it. 

[LeeB]

Challanging yet is a lot like challanging worse. Your guaranteed to hit some now and soon.

[Will_Johnson]

This is all great stuff. A couple of thoughts on peripheral matters:

1) Postal shipping is cheaper but generally slower. We've had folks get MAD at us only to find it took almost two weeks for the blades to get here!

2) As is demonstrated by the great results of this email, folks if you have a problem with a vendor give them a call and an opportunity to make it right. As was so amply shown here, most times they will do what they can.

Will

[LeeB]

Glad to see you're still around Will. Some of the guys were wondering about you jsut a short while back.