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stihl chains vs other brands

Started by Ga. bow-man, June 27, 2009, 04:34:53 PM

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Ga. bow-man

I've been running Stihl chain loops since I switch to Stihl around 1980.
Just ordered 2 arbormax 20" bar and loops from Bailey's for
my 028wb & ms 2900. I didn't know want a high price I had been
paying for Stihl's. What your opinion on these chains an bars and whats
the best for the dollar?

Rocky_J

I started out with Stihl chain, then spent several years using less expensive chains and trying to find brands that worked as well as Stihl, ended up going back to Stihl chains on everything about 3 years ago. I picked up the breaker/ spinner bench tools and buy 100' rolls now.

I'm running 3 different sizes on my various saws. 3/8 lo-pro on my 200T climbing saws, .325 on my Husky 346's and 3/8 on everything bigger. My local dealers are all quite high on their roll prices but I have some friends in Washington State that can get me chain for a good price. Even with UPS shipping it's much cheaper than buying local. And a roll lasts me about a year for 3/8 and closer to two years on the smaller stuff, so I'm not buying it very often.

Al_Smith

Stihl most likely is the best chain on the market.It is costly if purchased from a Stihl dealer but about anything that is bonefide Stihl costs like the dickens . .Just the way the almighty Stihl corp. runs things .

The stuff will definately take more abuse and hold up longer than any other but it  should at twice the price .That said,you kind of have to make up your mind on if it's worth the money .

The best advice I can give is pony up the money,buy a loop  and decide for yourself .

rebocardo

The Stihl is better, but, not 2x-3x better. I do urban tree work and I need to change chains often. Once an hour sometimes. Stihl or Bailey's, once you hit a nail, embedded chain link from 20 years ago, lags, bullets, concrete, etc. your chain is either dull or worse destroyed.

I can speak from personal experience what a sinking feeling you get when you just put on a new $30+ Stihl chain and hit a rock or something that broke almost all the cutters off all on one side of the chain. Plus, you still have to put on another chain to have a second good at a new notch up higher. Much less painful at $11-$16 a loop.



Ianab

I do like the Stihl chain. I think the steel is harder and the chrome is thicker. Means it stays sharp longer.

But when you do hit a rock or nail  it takes more work to re-sharpen it.

The other main brands are OK, they are cheaper and easier to sharpen. I have Oregon on my Dolmar and it cuts fine.

Does that make up for needing to sharpen the chain more often? Your call.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Cut4fun

Rocky, how much does the 100' of Stihl RSLK cost you from out west?

I order the Oregon CL from Washington and it is $209 + $30 UPS.

Rocky_J

It's been a while but I seem to recall the last one was about $245 plus shipping and some gas money for my buddy who bought it for me.

Franksplanks

Ya, the Stihl chain is good, but very hard to break and spin. The 13/64 file is better for the cutter as it is filed back. I prefer Oregon or Carlton. All my bars and chains are 050 thou., so I don't have to use more than one gauge chain.
John

Rocky_J

I have not found the Stihl chain hard to break or spin. And I've never used a 13/64" file, either. The 7/32" file works perfect on the Stihl chain just like all the other brands. I think the 13/64" file recommendation is just another Stihl trick to try and force users into buying Stihl branded accessories since so many of their recommendations are slightly different from the rest of the industry.

And as far as Stihl chain being harder to file, that depends on the brand of file you use. Stihl uses much harder steel than other brands so their files are also harder. If you try filing Stihl chain with an Oregon file then you will quickly come to the conclusion that something ain't working. But Stihl chain will last 2-3 times as long between filings as the softer Oregon chain so the price difference isn't what you may think. Oregon is cheaper but you will wear (or file) it out in half the time.

Good to see you, John. Been a long time.  :)

Franksplanks

 Hi Brian, yes it's been awhile since the good ole days! lol. The hardness of the Stihl chain sure shows up when you grind it. It seems to take a much lighter touch than the other brands. I guess that's why some dealers burn the cutters. It all comes down to finesse I guess.
The property I'm working on now is so rockless, you could plunge your saw into the ground to the dawgs and never rock out. A woodcutters dream. As result my stumps are so low a Corvette could drive thru the bush.
John

Ga. bow-man

Thanks for all the info. I really was ready for everybody to tell me
how dumb I've been buying the Stihl chains all the years. They have worked
great, but some of the replays  encounter things i don't deal with often,
nails, bricks, rocks, horseshoes, and ect. I use a cheap elec. sharpner, Harbor Freight,
works great for our crew. I will try these new chains and hope to hear more opinions
from other loggers. What a great site i was turned on to.

tdi-rick

It's funny, I keep reading on the internet that Stihl chain is harder than all the others, etc. etc.

BobL over on AS hardness tested Stihl, Oregon and Carlton.
The results were bloody interesting. Remember that GB chain is currently Carlton re-boxed.

QuoteAfter a lot of mucking about I finally got around to testing the hardness of standard Stihl, Oregon and GB chain.

All are 3/8, regular comp semichisel.

I measured a range of cutters, ties and drive links, at least 3, but typically 6 readings for each link ~ 100 measurements in all. The hardness of the ties, cutters and drive links for the same make of chain are reasonably consistent.

Stihl is the softest, Oregon was on average 3% harder, while GB was on average 4% harder. My measurement tolerance is +/- 2% so there is technically NO difference between the Stihl and Oregon chains, and the difference between Stihl and GB is borderline and would require more testing to confirm this as a real difference. I would like to be more definitive but this would take far longer than I have time to devote to this activity.

Remember this scientific hardness data and does not necessarily translate into how easy chains are to file or how long they take to wear - this depends on many other properties of materials. For example a material can be softer than a another material but more abrasive resistant - so the overall wear is less.......

.......For completeness the chains I tested were

Oregon Chain numbers 72 (tie), 75 (cutter and driver) and 91 (driver)
It was all pretty much the same.

The Stihl was a chain number 3991 (driver, tie and cutter)

The GB was and A3EP (Carlton) driver, tie and cutter

This is interesting

QuoteI have 3 Stihl and 6 Carlton chains that I use on my mill and cannot differentiate between the initial cutting speeds obtained with freshly sharpened stihl or carlton chain. I mill slabs in biggish (30"+) aussie (ie very) hardwood and if I get an 8"/minute initial cutting speed with my 076, I figure that I'm doing well. The limiting step in initial cutting speed is not the brand of chain but how carefully and consistently I can sharpen. This is as good as one can probably measure a)

b) can be assessed by comparing the initial cutting speed with the final cutting speed, ie speed towards the end of cutting +8' long slab, since it will indirectly tell you how much of the edge has worn off during the cutting. If I start with an initial 8"/min and get 6"/min as a final speed I consider that very good going, but sometimes I get final speeds as low as 4" or even 3"/min. On softer hardwoods I cannot tell the difference between the initial and final speeds for the two brands of chains since I reckon the final cutting speed is influenced more by how careful and consistently I can sharpen and set rakers to begin with. However, on really hard wood the final cutting speeds are generally higher when using the Carlton chains. I now rarely let my cutting speeds drop below 4"/min even on the widest slabs. On wider and longer slabs ( eg 45" wide 12' long) sometimes the wood is so hard, I pull the saw out and touch up half way through a slab. Somewhere I read where someone was cutting 5ft wide x 16 ft long Aussie hardwood slabs and they were sharpening up 3 times during one slab.

MCW there also made up a loop with half Stihl and the other half Carlton. FWIW the Stihl chain we buy here is the 'Made in Switzerland' stuff, too.

QuoteLike I mentioned in a past thread I made a half/half loop of both Carlton 3/8" semi chisel and Stihl 3/8" semi chisel (not sure of exact model of chain). I then ran them through some pretty filthy, dirty, Australian hardwood until it went off the cut.
Both leading edges were visibly damaged but the Stihl chain was completely stuffed - way worse than the Carlton and I had would have had to grind the cutter back considerably further than the Carlton chain to fix it.

Some food for thought ?
The older I get the faster I was.......

ladylake

Quote from: tdi-rick on June 29, 2009, 05:14:12 AM
It's funny, I keep reading on the internet that Stihl chain is harder than all the others, etc. etc.

BobL over on AS hardness tested Stihl, Oregon and Carlton.
The results were bloody interesting. Remember that GB chain is currently Carlton re-boxed.

QuoteAfter a lot of mucking about I finally got around to testing the hardness of standard Stihl, Oregon and GB chain.

All are 3/8, regular comp semichisel.

I measured a range of cutters, ties and drive links, at least 3, but typically 6 readings for each link ~ 100 measurements in all. The hardness of the ties, cutters and drive links for the same make of chain are reasonably consistent.

Stihl is the softest, Oregon was on average 3% harder, while GB was on average 4% harder. My measurement tolerance is +/- 2% so there is technically NO difference between the Stihl and Oregon chains, and the difference between Stihl and GB is borderline and would require more testing to confirm this as a real difference. I would like to be more definitive but this would take far longer than I have time to devote to this activity.

Remember this scientific hardness data and does not necessarily translate into how easy chains are to file or how long they take to wear - this depends on many other properties of materials. For example a material can be softer than a another material but more abrasive resistant - so the overall wear is less.......

.......For completeness the chains I tested were

Oregon Chain numbers 72 (tie), 75 (cutter and driver) and 91 (driver)
It was all pretty much the same.

The Stihl was a chain number 3991 (driver, tie and cutter)

The GB was and A3EP (Carlton) driver, tie and cutter

This is interesting

QuoteI have 3 Stihl and 6 Carlton chains that I use on my mill and cannot differentiate between the initial cutting speeds obtained with freshly sharpened stihl or carlton chain. I mill slabs in biggish (30"+) aussie (ie very) hardwood and if I get an 8"/minute initial cutting speed with my 076, I figure that I'm doing well. The limiting step in initial cutting speed is not the brand of chain but how carefully and consistently I can sharpen. This is as good as one can probably measure a)

b) can be assessed by comparing the initial cutting speed with the final cutting speed, ie speed towards the end of cutting +8' long slab, since it will indirectly tell you how much of the edge has worn off during the cutting. If I start with an initial 8"/min and get 6"/min as a final speed I consider that very good going, but sometimes I get final speeds as low as 4" or even 3"/min. On softer hardwoods I cannot tell the difference between the initial and final speeds for the two brands of chains since I reckon the final cutting speed is influenced more by how careful and consistently I can sharpen and set rakers to begin with. However, on really hard wood the final cutting speeds are generally higher when using the Carlton chains. I now rarely let my cutting speeds drop below 4"/min even on the widest slabs. On wider and longer slabs ( eg 45" wide 12' long) sometimes the wood is so hard, I pull the saw out and touch up half way through a slab. Somewhere I read where someone was cutting 5ft wide x 16 ft long Aussie hardwood slabs and they were sharpening up 3 times during one slab.

MCW there also made up a loop with half Stihl and the other half Carlton. FWIW the Stihl chain we buy here is the 'Made in Switzerland' stuff, too.

QuoteLike I mentioned in a past thread I made a half/half loop of both Carlton 3/8" semi chisel and Stihl 3/8" semi chisel (not sure of exact model of chain). I then ran them through some pretty filthy, dirty, Australian hardwood until it went off the cut.
Both leading edges were visibly damaged but the Stihl chain was completely stuffed - way worse than the Carlton and I had would have had to grind the cutter back considerably further than the Carlton chain to fix it.

Some food for thought ?

  Nice post,  could be a liitle Stihl hype going on again.  I've been running Carlton which works fine for me, never ran Stihl so don't know.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

nhlogga

I run Oregon LGX chains. Maybe it's all in my head, but I think they are tougher than the older Oregon LG chains. Never cared for GB/Carlton chains. I didn't mind the Stihl chains. 
Jonsered 2260
Husky 562xp

Al_Smith

Well I don't know what type test this guy supposedly took .A Rockwell-C nick test ,what? He's most likely correct about certain alloys of steel which most lilkely contain a higher amount of chrome ,perhaps manganese to impart some toughness for abrassion  .Might have some vanadium thrown in the mix for all I know .Whatever it is,they are mum about it .

However,all that said Stihl chain is hard as compaired to about every other brand. A known fact to everyone who ever took a file to it .

I am trying some arbor pro or what that stuff Baileys peddles for files .There is one that is less aggresive that Pferd and seems to do better on Stihl chain .By not being as aggresive the files seem to hold up longer or so it appears to me .

rebocardo

I know from hand filing the Stihl requires a high quality file, which I bought from my Stihl dealer. It basically laughed at the files I bought from Home Depot that worked so well on the Poulan chains. I thought the reason the Stihl chain smoothed the file over from the Home Depot was because it was harder then the file, maybe I was wrong ...


tdi-rick

Hi Al,
all I know is that Stihl chain doesn't engender the following here it gets in the US, or at least on the US centric boards.

There may well be differences in the depth or type of hard chroming they use which obviously can affect the ease of filing, but in terms of wear and life, most over here seem to prefer Carlton or Windsor. Cost might have something to do with it too, but all chain is exxy here compared to the US, and there isn't a huge difference between the retail prices of the four different brands. (disregarding the Chinese stuff that seems to be flooding the lower end of the market ATM)
Bear in mind that the stuff we generally cut here is tougher/harder than Black Locust and often pretty dirty, so at a guess semi chisel and chipper chain would outsell chisel chain 10:1. A lot of chain suppliers that service the fencing/firewood/farming sectors don't even bother to stock full chisel chain.

Not sure if you can still view posts over there, but I can dig up the links for you. Bob is a stand up fella and a scientist to boot, hence the testing of the chain.
The older I get the faster I was.......

John Mc

I wonder if the difference (if there is any significant difference) is in the chrome plating (alloy, thickness, etc), and not the hardness of the underlying steel?

I'm curious what hardness scale that guy used on the chain tests as well. Some harness scales are more suited to testing surface hardness, while others test a bit deeper. On the Rockwell scales, "C" tests will go relatively deep, while the "N" scales (particularly 15N) are shallower. There's another scale used for "superficial" hardness testing, but I can't remember that one. (I'm also not very familiar with the various Vickers hardness tests, but I believe they also vary in the depth to which they test).

I also wonder about the metallurgical structure of the underlying metal. Most fo the heat treating I've seen in my work has been to get Martensite (for springs and other applications). I wonder if Banite might be superior for the cutters in chainsaw chain?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

Quote from: tdi-rick on June 30, 2009, 02:39:51 AM
  .

Not sure if you can still view posts over there, but I can dig up the links for you. Bob is a stand up fella and a scientist to boot, hence the testing of the chain.

I'm not really doubting that guy .I just question his testing methods .

Yes I can lurk on that site if I choose. I choose not to for personal reasons .

As far as files I doubt seriously of the files sold by Stihl are any better than Pfeds' but it's a sure fire bet they cost more . .

Of course to hear Stihl dealer admit that would be a rare event . :D


As I said though I'm going to give those Arbor pro files or whatever name it is a go and see if they do better .I've only got about 8 or so loops of Stihl chain .If it makes any of you feel better I also have Carlton and Oregon as well .

sbhooper

I think that Stihl chains are definitely harder due to chrome content.  It seems to me like the new chains go farther before they need sharpening, but after they are sharpened a time or two, they are like every other chain.  I don't think it is worth the disparity in price for my use.  I don't mind touching up a cheaper chain a little more often.  When you can get two loops on sale from Bailey's for what one Stihl chain costs, to me it is a no-brainer.
My woods crew:

MS 361
MS 260
Husky 257
Husky 359

656 International w/grapple
Kawasaki Mule
Huskee 22 ton splitter

Brucer

I've been using 70 cc. Jonsereds saws for 28 years, running .058 gauge, 3/8 pitch Oregon LG chain. I make up my own loops from a 100'  roll.

Last month I bought a back-up saw for the business, a Stihl 441 (70 cc.). You can't get a .058 gauge bar for Stihl saws from any of the major manufacturers, so I wasn't able to use my Oregon chain. Instead I bought a couple of Stihl loops from the dealer.

He told me that he had two customers, both professional logger, who would only run Stihl chain because it didn't dull as quickly and it didn't stretch as much. But he had another couple of professionals who would only buy Oregon chain because the Stihl chain tended to break after heavy use.

I've been using both saws in my log yard, more-or-less side by side. I'll buck logs with one until it starts to dull, then switch to the other. When the second one dulls, I'll go sharpen 'em both. There's no question the Stihl chain on a Stihl saw cuts longer than an Oregon chain on a Jonsereds saw. I can make about 50% more cuts with the Stihl chain before it gets noticeably dull. Both chains take about the same time to sharpen, using a Pferd file.

This isn't the most scientific of tests -- it kinda relies on my perception of when a chain is "dull". But the difference is large enough so's you notice.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Al_Smith

That's probably about as good a test as could be given,scientific or not .

Maineloggerkid

I geuss I'm the odd man out- I have found Stigl to be softer and require more filing both times I have tried it. I pent alot more time filing than when I use Oregon. MAny other woodcuttters around have  told the dealer they are getting the same results. Dunno, different strokes for different folks, I guess.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

Al_Smith

Well I suppose you might get a bad batch of Stihl chain .It happens .Stihl as much as they say not is not always perfect .

On the other hand no matter what chain you use you have to keep them out of the dirt . You rock a Stihl chain I'll gaurentee you'll spend some time with a file before you get it straightened out .

Brucer

As I said, my test wasn't all that scientific.

1) I was using new loops of Stihl chain. Depending on how they're hardened and sharpened, the hardness may deteriorate as they're used.

2) My test was specific to my application -- bucking green Douglas-Fir logs that have been rolled around in the dirt in the sorting yard and then in my log yard. When there's visible dirt on a log, I'll saw "outward" to make a kerf through the bark, pulling the dirty bark toward me. Then I'll go around to the other side and buck the log following the first kerf. That way I'm not dragging dirt into the cut.

3) I've only hand-filed the Stihl chains so far. Sooner or later I'm going to have to true them up in my chain grinder. That may change things as well.


Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

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