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Need Ideas

Started by Fla._Deadheader, May 26, 2009, 04:22:06 PM

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Fla._Deadheader


Got a Buddy that gets a LOT of small logs. 12" dia. and under. Lots of these are tops. He wants to just stuff a log in a machine and catch the pieces as they run out the other end . Is this what a Scragg Mill does ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

beenthere

Pretty close FDH

The scragg will make parallel saw cuts to produce flitches, and then these flitches will need to pass through an edger. Only thing left then is the trim saws for getting length.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Fla._Deadheader


Actually it's a gang saw of sorts ??? Multi-head band saw ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Ron Wenrich

Gang saws are usually used with at least a 2 sided flitch.  Same goes for resaws.  A scragg can put you with a 2 sided flitch in short order. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

DR_Buck

Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on May 26, 2009, 04:22:06 PM

Got a Buddy that gets a LOT of small logs. 12" dia. and under. Lots of these are tops. He wants to just stuff a log in a machine and catch the pieces as they run out the other end . Is this what a Scragg Mill does ???

I thought that's what a chipper does.   smiley_headscratch
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Fla._Deadheader


Down here, there is a market for 1 X 2's , 5/8 X 1's, and the ever popular Tablilla, which is 2-5/8 wide + tongue. It a tongue and groove piece 7/16 thick. Lau-rell is the main wood and it grows like weeds. Looks like Black Walnut, but is feather light, nearly.

  Trees are cut into "Blocks" of whatever width X 3" thick. Think a chunk with 2 flats and 2 bark sides.

  Googled Scragg Mills, and found photos, but, not exactly sure how one is set up ???
Is it chain fed with "Hooks" to grip the end of the log and shove it in ???

  Guy is interested, if I could tell him how it works. He already has the "GangSaw" that I helped him set up a while back.

  How much power is required to run a Scragg ???  Never saw one live and in person ???  ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

amberwood

An option might be the new TVS that WM is marketing. made in Poland for the euro small log market. Twin vertical bands fed continuously by a chain/dog system. Uses the same blade length as an LT70 etc.

We have one coming to AUS at the moment, somewhere between rotterdam and singapore. A small mountain of small diameter pine awaits it.

DTR
MS460 Magnum
MS250
DAF CF85-430
ASV RC-85 track loader

Ron Wenrich

Here's a Pendu system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcIcIypCTw4&feature=related

Here's a Jackson system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHqxRRdqkqo

And a Helle system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d3jdOv-3o8

I know, its slow on dial-up.  But, you'll get the idea after only a few minutes.

Helle even makes on with vertical edgers.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Fla._Deadheader


Ahhh, OK. That's quite a setup. We are looking for something a lot simpler.

  I was thinking along the lines of a Multi head band mill. Drop the logs dfown on a V bed, and have a hook device on both ends to grip the log. Send it through the multi head band mill.

  No viable way to hold all the flitches as they come off the saw  ::) ::) Gotta study up on this. Maybe build sumpin  ::) ;D ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

karl

There's a bunch on the Sawmill Exchange now- several pics of homegrown setups that would give you a pretty good idea of what and how.
one I remember was a one man operation that fed the log through, then backed it up where it was rolled 9o degrees and fd through again for a 4 sided cant.

there are end dogging and chain fed scrags- both band and circle

Sounds like you are looking for something different though- more like the frame saws mentioned earlier,  if you already have stock that is flat on two sides...
Try googling sash framesaws- might give you other ideas.

  No viable way to hold all the flitches as they come off the saw  ::) ::) Gotta study up on this. Maybe build sumpin  ::) ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]
If'n it's set up horizontally like a multi head resaw gravity should keep flitches under control maybe? 
"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

Fla._Deadheader


 
QuoteIf'n it's set up horizontally like a multi head resaw gravity should keep flitches under control maybe?
Thought of that right after I posted last.

  I will check out SE. Thanks
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

ellmoe

Harold,
  A simple set-up is a sharp chain skragg to put two flat sides on the log and then feed direct into a gang saw. This will work on logs not so big that you will be wasting alot of wood in the slabs. If you have an 8" gang, 10-12" logs work good, with a 6", 8-10" logs. Depending on the horsepower on the skragg blades you can really fly, think several seconds for an 8' log. The woodmizer mentioned before is pretty slick, I believe it uses two 25 hp motors.

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Fla._Deadheader


We have 1-40HP electric to work with. What do you mean by "Sharp Chain " ???

  Are you also talking, say, 2- 30" blades ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Brian_Rhoad

There was a company that made a multi head saw mounted in a shipping container that cut small logs into multiple pieces of lumber at one time. I don't remember the name and I never saw one in person, just pictures. From what I remember it had a sharp chain conveyor that went in one side of the container and out the other.

Chico

Sharp chain is by far the simplest 30 " saws should be fine as long as your mateirial isn't over 13" or so they're easy to find the type with pipe rollers to position thee log is the best IMO because you can help the sharp chain if you get a really crooked log there are types that you can offset the set . Corley makes a good one you can fab one pretty easy if you can get the materials. If you're going to run one moter you may have to use a shaft  much like the shaft in edgers where the sas float using collars on a keyway. Two mtrs are better if poss at all because you can hook them direct with no belts because theres no loss in HP and you don't have to use as much space
JMO Chico
My Daughter My sailor MY HERO God Bless all the men and Women fighting for us today If you see one stop and thank them

woodbowl

Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on May 26, 2009, 07:15:16 PM

  I was thinking along the lines of a Multi head band mill. Drop the logs dfown on a V bed, and have a hook device on both ends to grip the log. Send it through the multi head band mill.

Give Cedarman a hollar. He has a band scragg.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

brdmkr

Baker sells a mini scragg that may do what you are after.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

ellmoe

Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on May 26, 2009, 09:52:26 PM

We have 1-40HP electric to work with. What do you mean by "Sharp Chain " ???

  Are you also talking, say, 2- 30" blades ???

   Think a heavy roller type chain with a reglar pattern of links with sharp projections on the top, from the side view like sharp triangles. The log rest on top of the chain, the teeth and gravity holding the log in place, while the chain pulls the log through the saws. A hold-down of some sort, say a heavy tire on a pivot, engages the log before it goes through the saws to keep the log from moving and to help hold it down. The blades should be on separate arbors so you can adjust for lead. A 40 hp motor would be a little light but if you run just the right sized logs (not oversized) your not cutting that deep into the log, just making a light slab. In this case I'm sure you can get by with the 40, production will be affected, though. Hydralic feed, with a speed conrol should be used. Thirty inch blades can work on smaller logs. If you can find a picture of a Cooper sharp chain skragg you will see a production version of what I am describing.

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Fla._Deadheader


OK. The chain is just what I had envisioned, just didn't know the name  ::) ;D

Lots of good stuff to check out. THANKS guys  8)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Chico

81X is what we always used and we welded the lugs on the outside of the conn links so you could always have spares  Just think of a scragg as a LH and aRH circle mill faced up with the sharp chaim running thru then for the carriage , another few things that I haven't seen mentioned is the splitteres we ran ours about 10 " out from the back of the saw then hinged it and put the other end in a slot with a roller so you never put a bind on anything also Theres a good bit of Hyd needed I'm supposing you 'll use sep mtrs for hyds . If you want to reall stay low dollar (I assuming labor is pretty cheap there ) is you could sort your logs and set your saws manual then run it until you need to run sixes You may get by with the 40 hp mtr easier thisway by puttig the motor on onside and using an arbor like a mentioned before with a keyway cut in for the saw collars to ride across the benefit with man is you would only need keystock under the collar because once you locked it down it would stay  The turner system is simple and it helps to hold lod in position until it gets to hold downs and saws Just remember Sweep always goes up on a scragg. I'm sure with the exp you have with fabbing you could build it easily these are just a few things I thought of
Chico
Too bad you couldn't find an old sash gang somewhere down there
My Daughter My sailor MY HERO God Bless all the men and Women fighting for us today If you see one stop and thank them

ARKANSAWYER

 








  This is my Morgan Mini Scragg.  It has a chain that has lugs about every 12 ft and it pulles the log between two 36 inch blades.  It has a 50 hp elec 480V 3ph to power it.  The max size log is about 16 inches but 12 is hard to handle.  It will make cants from 3.5 to 9 inches wide.  It works pretty good on small logs up to 8 ft long.  You can shove a 10 footer through but you have to be watching what you are doing and mess with the feed.
  Baker has one like it with a band saw behind it that cuts off the top of the two sided cant that comes out of the first two blades.  Then you have a 3 sided cant to run though a multi head bandsaw to make bords.

ARKANSAWYER

Fla._Deadheader


Thanks Arky. Just what he needs.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Chico

nice little set up arkansas
Chico
My Daughter My sailor MY HERO God Bless all the men and Women fighting for us today If you see one stop and thank them

ARKANSAWYER

  It is even better now as I have a roof over it.  We do alot of short small cedar logs making 4.25 x rw x4' cants.  It can shuck about 120 an hour if the help can keep up.
ARKANSAWYER

Bibbyman

Here is a system Wood-Mizer makets in Europe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2z4REhKvRU

Tip,  turn the sound off.  :)

Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

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