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Need Some More Assistance

Started by Fla._Deadheader, August 25, 2003, 04:31:50 PM

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Fla._Deadheader

  OK guys, here we go again. Finally ordered a gearbox for the swinger today. My foot is so swelled from being on it all day, that I have it up on the desk as I type this. ::) :o
   I just bought a 24 volt hydraulic power pak and am buying 24 volt motors for the new mill. I need a 24 volt alternator to keep the batteries up. Stopped at a Battery-Alternator shop today, to price a conversion alternator, from 12 V to 24 V.  :o :o
  Over $150.00. :o :o
  NOW, how do I convert a standard GM 50 amp Alternator to 24 Volts??? Change the Diodes to 24 Volt units or run the leads from the 3 phase Alternator to a 24Volt square wave rectifier or ???
  This can't POSSIBLY cost 150 Simoleans???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Fla._,
About your alternator, if the armature had enough turns in it, they only would need to replace the voltage regulator ( need to increase the field strength in rotor) and like you said use high voltage diodes. They may need to increase the turns in the armature coils to increase voltage generated by the rotating field.

Hey- take care of that leg, you could end up with deep vane trombosis. Have they got you on blood thinner?

Captain

Yep,  any alternator has the capability of 24 volts, with the right regulator and diodes.  Hate to say it, but an internally regulated alternator like most GMs since the 70's may not be the easy way....I have 2 words for you MILITARY SURPLUS

Percy

Heya Dedheader

First off, what happened to your foot? Musta missed the incident..sorry....

anyhow, alot of the older graders,excavators,draglines had 24 volt systems so you may find one in a junkyard somwhere.. Good luck.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

DanG

Hey Harold!  Can you spell H-O-O-T-I-E?  There's bound to be some 24v stuff up there. 'Course you may have to drain the water out of it first, the way its been around here. :-/
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Jason_WI

Fl,

Aren't most semi tractors 24V?? There has to be a junkyard around with a 24V alternator.

How many amps do you need??

Why 24V?

The only advantage would be smaller motors and smaller wire gauge to supply the load. Unless 24V stuff was all that was available for cheap......

To convert a GM alternator you would need a different regulator and higher voltage diode pack, possible. I don't have a spec on the diode pack that are in alternators.

What if ya hooked two 12 volt alternators in series?????

Hmmmm.....probably just lots of expensive smoke ;D :D :D ;D

Jason
Norwood LM2000, 20HP Honda, 3 bed extentions. Norwood Edgemate edger. Gehl 4835SXT

Fla._Deadheader

   Hi guys,
  Percy, broke the small outer lower leg bone. Real stoopid incident. Been 6 weeks ago, nearly. No pins or screws, just screwED. Can't get anything done.
   Jason, You are correct. I just figgered an Alternator that was larger in size, than my Engine, would look kinda weird, not to mention the weight. 24V is lower amp draw and much more available than 12V, especially in Gearmotors. Easier on Solenoids, also. I'm disappointed. I figgered you could whip up an easy fix for me to convert. ::) ::) ;D ;D
    Percy, see above; to Jason.
    NOW for DanG. I was gonna ask ya if ya had time to check with ole Hootie. I know yer pretty busy and I can't ride up there just to wade around in his 24 acre pond. Woodja, coodja, huh, ??? :D :D
  I'm gonna run around the Internet today and see what's out there.
   Captain, I din't ferget ya. I been foolin with Military stuff since the mid 70's. Mostly with 28v GENERATORS, since ALTERNATORS ain't been around when I was messin with the stuff. Gotta check out Surplus outfits.
     Thanks, Guys
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Fla._,
What did you order for a gearbox, is the output shaft the correct length for an arbor or are you going to have a belt to a separate arbor?

Fla._Deadheader

   "D", I will have to turn a shaft extension with a hub for the blade.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Buzz-sawyer

Hey fla!
Best to use no internal regulation...rather a $20 dollar regulator that limits the output to 24v....I will send both a link for alternator configuration techniques and a source for regulator...all alternators can put out 24 v ...just need the amps!
Don
here is regulator site
http://theepicenter.com/power_sources_generators_and_batteries.html

here is everything you need to know about altering/using alternators!
http://members.1stconnect.com/anozira/SiteTops/energy/Alternator/alternator.htm
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

smwwoody

Hey fla
If you are allready set up for a gm alt. get one off of a military chevy truck or blazer ther are lots around now that had the 24 volt system on them.

woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

D._Frederick

Fla._,
On your shaft extension, are you going to have an outboard bearing to take the stain off the gear box. What ever you do, make sure your extension does not come loose, a 30 inch diameter saw turning at 3000rpm could be scary.

Fla._Deadheader

   Got that covered "D". Gonna have 2 bearings and maybe 2 snap rings for safety.  Blade is 21". ::)

   Guys, I am not set up for any particular brand, just favor GM.
  Found one online. Waiting for info back on it. 70 Amps@ 24Volts.
  I am putting that Alternator links stuff in my Notepad files,  Thanks
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Buzz-sawyer

What kinda blade did you decide on?
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Fla._Deadheader

  Lucas, only because they are easy to get. I COULD always change. ::) ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

KiwiJake

You'll have to figure out which blade you want before you machine that gearbox shaft, cause Peterson blades are different than Lucas ones. ::)

Fla._Deadheader

 Yer correct, Jake, but, I DO own the lathe ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

solidwoods

Bravo for fighting back Gremlins! :D
Your not going to like this Fl DH but it's said with the best intent.
I wouldn't change the mill to 24v until you have identified the reason 12v doesn't work.  
A fix is a change to a problem, change is just change, it's not a fix.
You have an electrical usage problem.  I'm going long on this one but I'll guess you have motors that are too large and  geared too low or are being pulled down in RPM.  These are amp suckers.  Motors of proper size (pwr) and run within their normal range or rpm operation will operate with a predictable consumption of amp/ hrs .  Also does your hyd system run on demand or constant run?  Gott'a be on demand, or Juice Eater.
Call me and we'll trouble-shoot the heack out of it.
JIM

Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

woodhaven

What ever happened to the Sander project?
Richard

Fla._Deadheader

   Thanks for the input Jim, but, I'm not changing the mill over to 24V. I'm building another mill, using 24V. I used a couple 12-24V motors on the first mill. Worked fine. The only problem with the hydraulics is, I'm currently using a Ford Starter motor. It was used when I got it. I am going to get a better 12V motor to replace the Ford motor. (Never did like Ford) ::) The Hydraulic pump is wired on demand.
   Most things I used on the first mill, I used to keep costs down, until I knew the mill would saw decently.
  The new mill will take much smaller wires and less battery drain.

   Woodhaven, The Warden won't let me into the shop to get it put together.  ::) I have most of the parts and the drum just needs to be welded up and we can begin. I need to rip some 2 X's and cut up a couple sheets of plywood. Ain't allowed to do that either.  ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

solidwoods

Man I'm behind the power curve!
You need to name your monsters32 :D
I would keep up my reading here but I think I'm waiting for the movie ;)
JIM
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

woodhaven

Well hurry up
 I am waiting for you to finish yours before I start mine. I need to find out all your mistakes so I can do mine right the first time. Building it out of wood Huh. Lets see mistake #1.
Richard

mitch

For years I charged the 24 volt system on my 730 John Deere diesel with an eighteen dollar 12 volt GM alternator by disconnecting the internal regulator from the output terminal. The input for the regulator was taken from the first 12 volt battery (really two six volt batteries). When the engine is running at high idle  the alternator outputs about 27-28 volts and up to about 20-25 amps. At full charge a 12 volt battery should have about 14 volts across the terminals or 28 volts across all four six volt batteries.
This unit will not charge at low idle!

A couple of years ago I replaced this unit with a one wire 24 volt alternator from the local NAPA dealer through a rebuilder. It cost $90.00 and will charge at low idle.

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