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Something strange???

Started by biziedizie, August 24, 2003, 09:24:49 PM

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biziedizie

  Hey I get a call from a guy and he tells me that he has some logs that he needs cut up and real fast. I told him that I could maybe swing by to pick them up Tues evening if I was to hook up the trailer and take it to the job site.
  Well he asks if I can pick them up any sooner so I said hey buddy I could drop the trailer off Sun morning if he wants to load them and I would pick up the trailer Sun evening.
  When I got to this guys farm I didn't see any logs and he said they were in the back and to drop the trailer where I was parked. Fine by me, so I lock it up and I thinking that he has a tractor to skid and load these.
  Anyways I pick the trailer up and there's three very nice 14' logs loaded so I strap them down and away I go.
  Now for the problem. ::) I get back to the mill and un-hook and I noticed that there's a tag nailed into the log that I'm looking at. I check around the other logs and I see that they also have tags. :o What are these tags??? They had #'s stamped on them and I have noooo idea what this means???
  The logs had dry mud on them which I thought was strange as we haven't had rain around here for a long time.
  Could these be stolen logs??? He sure seems in a rush to get these cut up. ::) If I saw these logs and thewy are stolen I would assume that I'm guilty of log theft aswell???
  Any input???

     Steve

DanG

Yeppers, I'd say that's strange, all right.  I don't think I'd sink a tooth into them until I checked it out.  I don't know what your local constabulary is like up there, but I would probably be getting in touch with them.

Maybe Paul_H will have some ideas. ???
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

biziedizie

  DanG I'm thinking that it's a bit odd now that I sit here and think about the whole deal. Hope Paul comes on soon to see what he thinks.
  What is bugging me is that there were tags, like the tags were small and red and made of plastic. The #'s were D034, D035 and D036.
  Percy gave me a # to a log broker down here and I remember him telling me that logs and ownership can be seen by the #'s spray painted on the ends.
 These tags look like the little metal ones that the telephone poles have on them.


      Steve

Percy

Hey B.D.
Around here,we export alot of logs to Japan and the U.S. When these logs are scaled(measured for volume) a tag like what you described is affixed to one end of the log. This numbered tag corresponds with all the info about the log in some sort of inventory control. Ill bet you could find out everything about those logs from that tag number with a little investigative work. Call  Mr Deglan for some help. Chances are the guy who hired you bought them. If they are hot, however, he's gonna get his peepee slapped ya?
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

biziedizie

  Percy me thinks I will call Al in the morning and see if he can run these #s. :P Or maybe I will call the guy that I picked the logs up from and ask him to fax me the ownership papers. I would assume that he has these.
  If these logs are hot this will be the second time since April that this has happened to me. :o
  I guess that some guys can make more buxs stealing logs then selling them. ::)


   Steve

Jeff

Those tags are Log tags. The veneer buyers here use them to mark the logs they buy. If the guy stole the logs, is he a bleeping idiot? Not only for Hijacking the logs but not removing the tags? Bizie you gotta find out one way or another.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

ARKANSAWYER

  We have white tags with bar codes on them here for logs.  The white oak stave buyers and the walnut buyers come in and scale the lot and attach a white tag to the small end and pay for the logs.  Then in a few days the truck shows up to pick up the logs.  Two years ago I bought a load of walnut tops and in the mess was a log with a white tag.  I called the walnut company and asked about the log.  Yes they were missing it and several others and in a day or so a buyer shows up to collect the log and any information I had.  It seems the logger had pulled a few out and was going to sell them again and he did not expect me to pick up the tops that soon.  
     DO NOT SAW THESE LOGS TILL YOU KNOW OR HAVE THE GUY sign a paper of ownership and get paid as soon as done.
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

Paul_H

I agree with Percy,they sound like export tags.From the time the logs are loaded from the bush,they should have a timber mark on them.If you look on the ends,there should be a # stamped in it.

     eg,    EB3
              1O5

Once they are scaled for export,they are tagged.The tag's could be the logging co's,or the exporters.If the guy bought them from a drysort,the logs would have been scaled out of the boom,and there will be paperwork to back it up.If they are hot,he might not have any proof. ::)

Our mill is at our drysort,and when somebody brings us logs to mill from their own property,the must have a timber mark that they get through the BC Forest Service.If the logs are milled up on their own land,no mark is required.

And I agree with everyone else that say don't mill them till you know.If he can't prove ownership,let them rot.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

biziedizie

  Hey Paul is there a place that I can call and see if the ID on these logs can be matched with an owner???
  Don't plan on sawing these logs till I know for sure. :P Hope this doesn't happen everyday as I really don't like this trend....


    Steve

Tom

bizie,
What you are experiencing is the reason that logs have tags.  Going through a broker and tagging logs is to keep theft down.  You are doing the right thing by inquiring.

Just because the logs have tags doesn't mean that they are stolen though.  He may have purchased them.  I don't work with contracts too much because I know the people I work for and the money is too little to go to court usually.  But, I do get a waiver signed if an individual has me saw tagged logs.  It sure doesn't hurt to get folks to sign off on log ownership.

DanG

I may be facing a sorta similar situation before long. This guy that I know to be a crook keeps talking about having me saw some logs. I know cottonpickin' well that the logs will be stolen, if he does, and I ain't got no plans for sawing them. The guy's son is a friend of mine, and I really don't want to get into a squabble over it, so I'm just dragging my feet and talking the deal down for now.  Fortunately, the old guy is so lazy I don't think he'll ever come through, anyway. :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Jeff

Generally those tags would come off at the point they left ownership of those that put them on. Many are barcoded. When they are removed from the inventory the tags are removed. I say if the tags are still on the logs thier hot.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Paul_H

Steve,
I tried Al Hoyrup at the Squamish Forest district office.He is the scaling supevisor for our district.He is away on one of the many fires around BC.The other guy is on holidays,but is a freind,so I'll bug him at home ;D

I talked to our broker and he said that they could be ends off of a poles or pilings.Is there a piling outfit nearby?

Did you find any numbers stamped on the ends,or were they fresh cut?
I'll try phoning Dale in a little while and see what he can figure out.
Our export tags are small plasticised paper,similar in appearance to the month tag on a license plate.Other types I've seen are aluminum,but they all have a company logo or name on them.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

biziedizie

  Paul as far as the logs being fresh cut I would say no to that, I think that they've been down a few weeks by the way the bark peels off.
  I wouldn't assume that there pilings as one of the logs looks like it had a crotch on the end.
  Gonna look for #'s on the ends in the am, gotta scrub some dirt off first.
  Thanks for the call this morning. 8)

  Thanks for all the other replies from you guys here as it keeps me in-tune of what can go on.


    Steve

AtLast

I am doing a project now that before I told the client which logs were good or bad they had done a survay. They went through and placed metal tags on each tree that had a number. The used Longitude and latitude to determine which number was persicely where and than made up a blue print with the tag numbers to the corrasponding tree. Id be a tad skeptical BUT at the same time perhaps these trees were survayed as well prior to falling them.

biziedizie

   Good point AtLast, maybe this guy bought the logs off a survey guy. What do you think Paul??? Any word from your guys about the tags???

    Steve

Ron Wenrich

The bigger mills and veneer buyers use those tags in our area.  They know the size, grade, volume, and logger just by that tag.  

The ones with barcodes are used to have a continuous inventory of their logyards and what is run through the mills.  They can even take so far as to what the yield was for a particular log.  It helps them keep tabs on their buyers and their logs.

It could have been logs that were scaled, marked, but not bought.  Most guys don't remove the tags.  If they were stolen, then the tags would most likely be removed (but not all thieves are that smart  :D).
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Paul_H

I haven't been able to get a hold of Dale from BCFS yet,but I think it might be a remote chance that he could trace it.I tried going by the "D" on the tag yesterday,and phoned a powerline supplier in Langley.(I think it was D&K Powerline supplies) The woman I talked to said that they weren't the type of tags that they use,and she was scratching her head like the rest of us.

Have you asked your customer point blank where they came from? Maybe if he knows you don't play around with hot logs,he can produce some paper.

I am on the rock truck again tomorrow so I am limited to who I can talk too,but it's been on my mind and would like to get to the bottom of it.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Frank_Pender

Hey, Biz, I would simply tell the fella that you hve a policy of needing to see a bill of sale for the logs before you begin sawing.  If he hims and haws, you can just about bet dollars to donut holes that they are "hot logs".  

Then once you have the sale information you can crosscheck the source issue.  Best of luck in your search for the truth.

Out here many of outfits are taging each log. We also have a brand that must be stasmped on each log as it comes into the mill.   They can check as far as 2 to 3 feet from the first point of impact of the brand on the inside of the log.  The impact affect to cell structure of the log that much.  We have had guys trim off the brands and put their own on loads at times.  But you cand still determine if a brand has been overlaid over another.
Frank Pender

beenthere

Frank
You stated ""They can check as far as 2 to 3 feet from the first point of impact of the brand on the inside of the log.  The impact affect to cell structure of the log that much.  We have had guys trim off the brands and put their own on loads at times.""

I have heard about this, but wonder if you know more about how this is done, or have also just heard it told as well?  

Seems to me that wood cells couldn't have that kind of a "chain reaction", to push one another "out of place". I also don't think the technology is available to detect cells being "out of place". I don't mean to cast dispersions on your thinking, but sure would like to find out more about why or how it could possibly work.  I would be curious to find a source for such information. Anyone?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

biziedizie

  Tried calling the guy yesterday but as I was on my cell I couldn't get through as he doesn't accept cell calls. Gonna try in a few mins from the home fone.
  Been thinking about the tag and if this tree was standing right now the tag would be about 10 to 14 feet up the tree. Does anyone put a tag that high???
  Working on the other side of town but might try to drive by his place if I get a min tonight.
  Was gonna call the competion down the road to see what he thinks but he's a bit odd and just might stir up s@$% for me.

    Steve

Frank_Pender

Beenthere, I will do some additional checking with the people at the "Cow College" and see what they they have to say.  I have only heard about this happening and not actually seen it take place.  I sure hope I have not been passing on misinformation.   :P
Frank Pender

biziedizie

   K as I need the trailer in the morning to pick up a lift of den-shield I had to unload the logs. Man oh man were these suckers heavy. ::) Is fir spose to be sooooo heavy??? The last bunch of fir that I got I could move with the cant hook but this stuff I had to fire up the Kabota.
  Anyways I dropped by the guys place that owns the logs but he ain't home. ::) I wanted to drive back behind his barns to see what's going on back there but thought twice about it.
  I left a message on his machine a few mins ago so I hope he calls.
  I'm still trying to figure out why a tag would be sooo high in a tree??? Any ideas???


      Steve

Tom

I don't understand why you say the tag was high in the tree.  Couldn't or wouldn't it have been put on the log when the log was bucked?

Paul_H

Unless it was Tillaway. ;)

Steve,I thought that the tags were on the ends.That is where the export tags would have been placed.But if they were a semi rough log,they probably wouldn't make it anyway.

It could be as mentioned before,that they are some sort of survey marker.

I hope you get a hold of the guy,I'm curious. ???
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

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