Anyone Familiar With Alternate Heating Systems Co.

Mark M · August 23, 2003, 08:12:34 PM

Anyone ever heard of Alternate Heating Systems Co. in Harrisonville PA? I've been looking at one of their wood gasification boilers and it looks like a pretty good unit. Only problem is I can't find any information from anyone other then them. I checked the Better Business Bureau and there is no info on them so that's probably a good sign.

http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/wg_fs.htm

Any help would be appreciated.

Mark

Den Socling · August 23, 2003, 08:56:59 PM

I don't know anything about this company but we have worked with a company that bought a wood gasification boiler. It's running but it hasn't been easy. We were rebuilding the control soon after the installers went home. Do you have any experience with wood gasification?

Mark M · August 23, 2003, 09:49:04 PM

Den

Which boiler was it? (send an instant message if you don't want to make public).

I don't have any experience with them. In theory they look very attractive, but the one I am looking at is about $7000 so I want to make sure it will work well.

Mark

Den Socling · August 24, 2003, 05:35:30 AM

Mark,

If I remember correctly (only one cup of coffee so far this AM), the company is ChipTech.

Den

Frank_Pender · August 24, 2003, 08:38:11 AM

Mark I have been haveing great success with my Taylor Hotwater Furnaces. I do know that they can have additionional options added for such as natural gas or heating oil systems for supplemental or full time use. I also believe tht they have an attatchment for propane. I use wood full time in the two units I have; one for my 3,000 sq. ft. house and one for the kiln. Both are the same in size, the intermedite unit. I quite sure you can purchae them at a lesser price than 7 grand.

DanG · August 24, 2003, 09:20:51 AM

Mark and Den, y'all seem to be ahead of some of us on this subject. How about a brief primer on the wood gasification process? :P
Do they just heat the wood to force out the gas, then use it for fuel, or what? Is it practical for a small operation? What sort of residue does it leave? Inquiring minds want to know.

Fla._Deadheader · August 24, 2003, 09:34:15 AM

It may be that they are talking about creating smoke, like a charcoal plant, and then actually burning the smoke. I know there are vehicles that run on this concoction.

DanG · August 24, 2003, 10:01:56 AM

Did a little search on Google and came up with this from our Gubmint.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/tmu/wood_gasification.htm

Mark M · August 24, 2003, 10:27:37 AM

DanG - that's it in a nutshell. Supposed to burn really clean with little or no smoke. There is a cyclonic separator that catches the ash at the base of the chimney instead of an ash pan. It is really slick setup. The downside is they are expensive, the one I am looking at is $7000

. The good thing is they only but half as much wood and you can burn wood chips, sawdust, corn cobs, just about anything.

Mark

Den Socling · August 24, 2003, 02:17:30 PM

The company that has the gasification unit that I worked with used to have a wood waste boiler. In fact, they still do but with gasification added. They feed dust and chips with augers. The speed of the augers is controlled by the steam pressure controller. The wood goes into the gasification chamber. The gasification chamber is a "black box" that cooks the wood waste without enough oxygen to burn it. The mix of hot, partially burned wood and released gas is blown into the old boiler where it goes up in a flash. Smoke is rare. Ash is greatly reduced but there's still some.

Den Socling · August 24, 2003, 02:20:37 PM

Forgot to mention the tax benefit. From what I heard, PA had a big tax incentive for any company that invested in this relatively new technology.

burlman · August 24, 2003, 06:40:07 PM

Good evening gang, I was in the market for a wood gasification boiler to install in my new home that is under construction. I looked at the wood gun from alternate energy as well as along talk on the phone. However I purchased a Tarm wood gasification boiler. They are made in Denmark and have a 70 year history behind them. I chose this unit because I liked the idea of burning an intense fire then storing the energy in a large hot water tank. I don't have the E-mail address for them on hand but I can forward it later if need be. I hope to have mine installed soon and I will keep you all informed on the procedure, as well as the pros and cons of my decision to go with this unit. burlman

Ron Wenrich · August 24, 2003, 06:52:27 PM

Burlman

Don't forget the pictures!

Den

Pendu was working on a gasification unit back in the late 70s or early 80s. Some were working but I don't know if they ever made it to market. Oil prices dropped and alternate fuels went by the wayside.

Personally, I'm holding out for hydrogen. :D

Fla._Deadheader · August 24, 2003, 07:20:06 PM

Ron, interesting statement. I had a Mazda pickup, in Arkansas, that I converted to electric drive. Had 3 electronic techs try to build me a speed controller circuit. Never got one to work, so, I put in a 4 cyl. Wisconsin. Started to design a Hydrogen electrolysis system that would make hydrogen while driving. Low pressure, 45# system. Didn't have money to put into it and finally sold the pickup and moved to Fl. I still have all the research info.

Den Socling · August 25, 2003, 05:54:49 AM

Sounds like gasification is a much older technology than I ever would have guessed. The unit I've been talking about is run by a PLC with sensors all over the place. The steam pressure/fuel feed control is separate. The system looks like it belongs at NASA instead of in a boiler room.

Ron Wenrich · August 25, 2003, 03:02:28 PM

Den

First successful commercial gasifier was produced by Siemens in 186, although they were built in France as early as 1840. Quite a few cars and trucks were used in Europe prior to and during WWII. I remember my Dad telling me he saw these units on a lot of German trucks. They also used potatoes for methanol production.

Fla

I've been reading up on the hydrogen angle. Its been around as a fuel for the past 100 years. One guy claims to have converted a car over to running on hydrogen back in the '80s. He even produced on the fly, but needed a minimum of 5 electrodes due to deposit buildup.

I've seen where some guys are introducing hydrogen through the air intake. Hydrogen made on the fly. Really increase gas milage and power.

Hydrogen scares the government to death. If everyone could make their own fuel, big business would be at a disadvantage, and the government wouldn't have anything to tax. GM has a hydrogen car in development and should be on the highway in a few years. They're just waiting until the oil companies can catch up with supply.

Fla._Deadheader · August 25, 2003, 04:09:08 PM

  Ron, Ford has been marketing a car in England, for years, that runs on Hydrogen.
  The big thing in this country, is that the govt., along with the VERY misinformed, have successfully labeled Hydrogen as, "The Bomb".
   I lived less than 2 miles from where the Hindenburg went down. My Dad's cousin was one of the swabbies that was trying to hold the down lines, that led the Hindenburg to the mooring mast, when it went "Whoosh". NOT KA-BOOM ??? ???
   I have an article in a magazine, that some old timer, in Iowa, I believe, had converted a chevy pick-up to run on full time, on the run Hydrogen. He claimed 50 miles per gallon of water. Hydrogen is 3 times as powerful as gasoline, so, it makes sense. He used a Propane conversion carb attachment and built his own "generator" out of Stainless.
  I also have lab tests and running test reports from UCLA, I believe it is. They used bottles, which COULD be dangerous. :

Also, when in Arkansas, I helped build a couple of Methane digesters. Most people that condemn Methane, don't realize that it is

"Natural" gas, nearly the same as what the gas wells produce. All ya gotta do, is, run it through a "scrubber" to clean out the corrosive compounds. Then compress it and run yer car.??? I have some pics of that somewhere around here.

biziedizie · August 26, 2003, 02:10:01 PM

  Harold years back when I had a tv I watched a program about this guy in England that ran his truck on water. The truck ran great and this guy really had it in for the Goverment as they wouldn't let him pattern his idea. I wonder what would happen if we had no use for gas???

  What do you think it would cost to convert my truck to water??? Is this an easy thing to do??? My fuel bill for the truck is about 10 grand a year so I would think that the parts to convert would be cheaper.

   Steve

Fla._Deadheader · August 26, 2003, 03:40:22 PM

   Diz, if I had the answers to yer questions, I would be rich AND retired. It is NOT a new technology. Hitler nearly won the war with Alternative Fuels.
   The first thing ya need is a compact stainless container that can be sealed. It HAS to have airtight compartments to keep seperate H2 and O. ??? (I ain't no kemist) You need a very efficient bunch of SS Plates, that are wired in bunches of + and -. Think Battery.
   The configuration would be the key to best production. Best production means easier on all components in the system.
   You hook the leads from an alternator to this Electrolysis cell. The actual supply lines of Hydrogen are sealed. That way, there is always a small amount of Hydrogen gas under pressure (45 lbs).
  It gets a little more detailed, but, that is the most important part of the process.
  The gas tank in your vehicle is filled with water and pumped into the carb. It will emit a spray of water mist, the same as the gasoline was sprayed. That will keep the Hydrogen from burning the top end of the engine up. Hydrogen burns 3 times hotter than gasoline, and it needs to be "cooled" by the water vapor.
  An Impco or similar Propane conversion adapter, fitted to the top of your carb., will somewhat complete the installation.
   There will be tweaking and adjustments to be done, but, it really isn't all that difficult.
   NOW, if one of our resident CAD programmer users would generously donate the best overall design for the main Electrolysis cell, and most efficient plates, I COULD be talked into cutting the plates and see what goes KA-BLOOEY.

biziedizie · August 26, 2003, 04:12:01 PM

  OK if it's that simple to make one of these things what's stopping all of the knowlege here from making our own water powered vehicles??? Do ya think it could be done??? I'd sure like to try how bout everyone else???
  I look at some of my kids toys and I always think why do these toys run so good off of air and what not??? Why can't we make our cars run the same way???
  We got a rocket yesterday that is powered by air and it goes 400' in the air. 8) Couldn't an idea like that be addapted into a subway system??? Ever seen the way that mail is sent in the big towers through them air tubes???
  Me thinks that there's people that know how to do these things but the goverment has paid them off to keep their mouths shut. :

Steve

Fla._Deadheader · August 26, 2003, 04:21:26 PM

Diz, the old man I mentioned in an earlier post, told the writer of the article I have, that a woman in Montana contacted him. Seems that her son had developed the same type system, and was approached by Big Business (OIL ) ???, about selling them the whole idea. He refused, and one day, while going to work, he disappeared, car and all. She swears he had NO reason to disappear on his own. Ya STILL wanna proceed ??? ???

biziedizie · August 26, 2003, 04:35:22 PM

Harold I didn't want to mention it but now that you have I read the same thing when I was researching solar power and anternative fuels.

Seems that a few people have fallen off the face of the earth when they make something that will keep the masses from spending money on oil. :-[
My uncle that builds planes was a chemist all his life and he was let go early with a huge amount of money and to this day he won't tell anyone why he was let go. I know it wasn't his health as we sail and walk everywhere when I see him. Me thinks he stumbled across something and got paid off to not tell anyone.

Anyways I think it would be cool to proceed with this and see how many miles we can get to the bucket of water. 8)

Steve