iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

How to tell if an old motor is 6V or 12V?

Started by StorminN, May 05, 2009, 10:03:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

StorminN

Hi guys,

The old molder I'm acquiring is driven with an old straight-six Chevy... looks to be 1950's? vintage, maybe came out of a Bel Air or a truck. I'm wondering if there's a definitive way to tell if the engine is set up for 6V or 12V operation? The engine has a generator - not an alternator, but it's missing the battery and the coil. Other than hooking up a fresh 12V battery and coil and firing it up, is there any way to test it? If I got the engine running with a 12V battery and coil, am I correct in assuming the worst a 6V generator would do is not charge the 12V battery?

Thanks in advance, I don't know enough about this older stuff...

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Brian_Rhoad

The generator  should be marked 6 or 12 volt some where. Check the condensor in the distributer. It may be marked also. If you have a 6 volt battery, try to start it with that. If it is supposed to be 12 volts it will crank real slow or not at all. A 12 volt battery might burn up a 6 volt generator and condensor.

DouginUtah


If all else fails, take it to an auto parts store (Checker or AutoZone here) and have them spin it to find out if it is working. Then you will know if it is good to go and what it puts out.
-Doug
When you hang around with good people, good things happen. -Darrell Waltrip

There is no need to say 'unleaded regular gas'. It's all unleaded. Just say 'regular gas'. It's not the 70s anymore. (At least that's what my wife tells me.)

---

Gary_C

My understanding of this voltage question is there is no difference on the engine components from 6 to 12 volts. Even today all coils are made for 6 volts and can be obtained with an external resistor or internal resistor. With an external resistor, you can send 12 volts right to the coil and bypass the resistor during starting only thus boosting spark while cranking the starter. You can run a 6 volt coil on 12 volts for short times but not all the time or you will burn up the coil.

Generators are the same story. They will boost any voltage they are working with at the time. They make car starters with generators that can be used on 6, 12, and even 24 volt systems without any changes. The regulator is what is different on each system.

However I would strongly urge you to convert that generator to an alternator with internal regulator.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

iffy

What Gary C said. Put an alternator on it, buy an internal resistor coil, and don't worry about the starter. I used to put 6v starters on 12v systems on purpose, as they spin faster. Momentary use won't burn them up. Extended cranking will. I never had one fail.

Polly

gary is right you need a 12 volt coil with internal resistor and a12 volt alternator you can get a one wire delco alternator at most starter and generator rebuild shops for around 40 dollars , i think the first 12 volt chev engine came out around 1957 ,as for as i know all the old 6 cyl engines were 6 volt , the first corvet had a 6 cyl engine with 3 upddraft carbs and it was 6 volt also , by the way i think the 1957 chev 12 volt used a soleum rectifer ,this might have been a leese neville 12 volt alternator also , this is the way i rember it if anyone thinks i am rong please correct me  ;) ;) ::) ::)

Restoman

My dad was telling me just the other day that generators can not do gridlock traffic.  The generator needs to be above idle or else it's not putting out juice.  Kind of like a generator for home use, you need to have so many rpms to put out enough watts or the right hertz?  Dunno, but If you need it rebuilt PM me.  My grandfather used to have a shop and it's still around today under another's ownership.  Generators, alternators, and magnetos.  I ended up talking to an old friend when he saw me telling me about how cool it was to have someone in town that could work on magnetos, and how he remembered my grandfather.   

StorminN

Hmm... OK, I think I have a one-wire Delco alternator kicking around somewhere... got to find it...

So... alternator, internal-resistor coil (this is just a modern 12V coil?) and a 12V condenser, and should be good to go?

Thanks,
-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

dave7191

 Changed voltage regulator  and light bulbs to 12 volt on a lot of those old  Chevy and they ran for years they change to 12 volt in 54 or 55  I had several 55's and they were all 12 v I'm thinking the 54 may have been know 53 was 6 change a few of those over

Slabs

54 chevvies were 6 volt and 55's were 12.  Early chevvy 6'es had two valve-cover hold down studs in the middle of the cover.  Newer 6's had valve cover screws around the sealing flange that went directly into the head  Can't remember if the 54's had the old or new style of valve cover but the 53's had the old style.

Again, see what the data plate on the generator says.

Mine was a 55 with 265 V-8.  Hot little momma!!
Slabs  : Offloader, slab and sawdust Mexican, mill mechanic and electrician, general flunky.  Woodshop, metal woorking shop and electronics shop.

Don_Papenburg

Correction for Polly,  Early corvettes had  3 Carter sidedrafts painted black with chrome screws and plugs etc.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Sawyerfortyish

When I rewired my 47 Willys jeep I upgraded it to 12 volt all I did was get the generator rewirred at a rebuild shop. Everything else the lights,coil,points,condenser,battery was all replaced with 12 volt. The starter I left alone as I was told a 6 volt starter was built heaver than a 12 volt and would work fine.

StorminN

Well, I feel like an idiot...

Went back and looked at the motor this morning, scraped off more of the sawdust / oil grime, and found a tag on the generator that says it's 12V... so now I need a coil...

P.S. This one does have two valve-cover hold down studs, so I guess it's an older one...

Thanks guys,
-N.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Slabs

Ah!!!!

I must have misrepresented GM there somewhere.  The "newer" 6's had the valve cover bolted down around the base with screws while the older ones had the studs placed in the middle of the valve cover.
Slabs  : Offloader, slab and sawdust Mexican, mill mechanic and electrician, general flunky.  Woodshop, metal woorking shop and electronics shop.

beenthere

That's what you said...both times.   :) :)

... as I read it.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

timberfaller390

I echo the statement about going to an alternator. My '58 internationial "cyrus" has a 12 volt gen. and it was a pain to get going again (Had to pour a whole quart of GIN in the thing)  :D  :D  :) You have to be turning at least 1500 rpm to get the generator gening otherwise the carb wont becarbing and the pistons... well... they won't be working either.
L.M. Reese Co. Land Management Contractors
Stihl MS390
John Deere 50G excavator
John Deere 5103
John Deere 440 ICD dozer

iffy

Quote from: timberfaller390 on May 08, 2009, 08:01:45 AM
I echo the statement about going to an alternator. My '58 internationial "cyrus" has a 12 volt gen. and it was a pain to get going again (Had to pour a whole quart of GIN in the thing)  :D  :D  :) You have to be turning at least 1500 rpm to get the generator gening otherwise the carb wont becarbing and the pistons... well... they won't be working either.
Did you post this after you poured the gin in?  :D

John Woodworth

The Chevy 216 had a large cover over the lifter gallery on the right side of motor (dist.side) while the 235 has a narrower cover approx 6" tall and the length of lifter gallery.

Both with 2 stud hold downs aswell as the 270 GMC but the later as I rember was stamped GMC in cover.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Polly

my mistake about the 1954 corvet ,a man i knew at the time had it and i was 16 years old at the time all i rember is raising the hood and saw 3 pretty carbs on the side of that 6 cyl chev engine boy i sure would like to have it today the shape it was in then i wonder how meny of them are still around  ::) ::) ::) :)

StorminN

OK folks,

Here's a couple of pics...













Thanks,
-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Fla._Deadheader


Shute faar, Norm. I's figgerin you got that up and runnin by now  ??? ::) ::) ::) ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

WH_Conley

Bill

StorminN

Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on May 19, 2009, 08:11:01 PMShute faar, Norm. I's figgerin you got that up and runnin by now  ??? ::) ::) ::) ;D

Nope, not yet... I've been trying to find some knife bolts for square heads on this molder, and I don't even want to be tempted to start it up until I've got some good bolts... but they're hard to find! (But I did find one company that still makes the old-style bolts, they only want $26 each for the bolts and $15 each for the nuts!!!  :o :o :o :o :o).

That, and it's either been good weather, when I've been milling or building, or rainy cold weather... so, I haven't scrounged a coil yet, but soon...

-N.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

John Woodworth

That is a Chevy 235 used from 1951 to 1961 or so, the insterment pannel looks early 50's.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Thank You Sponsors!