Interesting Forum

[Fla._Deadheader]

Now that I have plenty of time to read this forum, it gets more interesting as I go.
 So far, I haven't seen a price comparison versus a typical wood frame house. Not needing $$$$ figures, I am wondering if it is more economical, less economical, or, is the finished building the main object, regardless of cost ???
  Also, If the building codes won't allow "homemade" lumber for structural support, how do you get past the planning board and building inspectors, so one can use their own sawn beams and supports ???

[Kevin]

Thinking of building a house boat?  :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

There's no code for "homemade" house boats.
  Might could build a Timber frame, IF I can get away from town.

[Captain]

In our New England community, the local building inspector is willing to accept plans with an engineering stamp.  When building our barn (which is stick built not timber framed) we needed engineering work on posts and beams necessary to support the hay loft.  We worked with an engineer that was busy building Drew Bledsoe's (then NFL Quarterback) house at the time.  Anyhow, he took our building plans, and everywhere I wanted to substitute our own lumber for structural members, he noted the plans. We did end up sheathing the outside walls and roof with plywood, and I purchased rafters as they were too long for the sawmill capacity.  All else was done with our own materials. When the engineer was done with the plans, the building inspector did not even question it.

Now, this was for a horse barn.  I'm not sure what challenges I will have with a residence....... :

Captain

[Fla._Deadheader]

Thanks, Cap'n. I've noticed a LOT of Hunting Lodges built with open Timbers. May not be Timber Framed, but, snow load and guest housing would be high concerns. With the debate of using home sawn 2X's for framing, I just don't understand the DanG codes. A 2X with no defects, sure beats the crap in the big box stores  : In Arkansas, I built my own house, with my own Red Oak lumber, sawn by me and my kids. No inspectors involved, because, we didn't live close to town.
  Used 8 X 8's for main beams, with 1 support in 30' and a lap joint above the support beam. Added angle supports, mostly for looks, out of solid 8 X 8's. Built our own trusses out of Red Oak, with plywood gussets. Bet a Whirly wind won't take it down. ;) :D :D :D

[Norwiscutter]

I am running into the same problems. I need to build a comercial building and would like to have an open timber ceiling. I called an engineer and the cost of certified plans for a 40x70 building without any costum design work like the timber frame roof... was 6 grand and change. this was basically for a glorified garage, all convensional framing. For six grand I could go to menards and almost pay for a polebuilding that size ,with plans. I would rather not have a steel building but with the costs of engineering, how can a guy do anything different. I am willing to pay for engineering costs ,but $6000 just isnt within my budget. I have since decided to build a little bit smaler... 30x 60 would be just about perfect. Want to go with 8x8 log walls with a timber frame roof. If anyone has any plans or ideas about how to go about WIS commercial building certification, I am all ears.

[Jim_Rogers]

Norwiscutter:
I went to the Timber Framers Guild web site and using their "resource guide" I entered "engineers" in the box and left the "all fields" display box alone. The search provided me with 17 names of people and companies that specialize in timber framing design and timber framing engineering.
One of these companies from MI says they do work in WI also.
If this isn't the company that quoted you $6000 for your drawing(s) and/or review of your drawing(s) then you could contact them and see what they can do it for.
Here is a link to the search engine page of the resource guide:
http://www.tfguild.org/resourceguide/search.html

I hope this is helpful, let me know if I can help you more.
Jim

[logman]

I used my own plans to build my 24x36 timber frame home
and didn't have any trouble getting a permit.  I am building
in Salisbury, Md.  I don't know what it would have cost to
stick build my home but so far I have a little over 30k in it
not counting land costs.  I used sips to close it in and I'm
working on the HVAC, plumbing and electrical now. I would
post pictures but I don't know how.  I can send pictures using
email though.

[Jim_Rogers]

If you go to the top of the page and pull down a box called "Forum Tools"  there is instructions there how to "Upload Photos".
If you can figure it out, I'll help you post some. Jim ;)

[Norwiscutter]

Jim, couldnt access information on the company via the search engine at the TFG. Maybe not searching for the right thing. Would appreciate contact information if you can get it. Thanks

[Norwiscutter]

Jim, never mind... figured it out. will give them a call and see what they can do for me. thanks for the link.

[Jim_Rogers]

NORWISCUTTER:
I hope you get a good deal. He's not the only one out there; we can continue to look around.
Fla_Deadheader:
The cost for a timber frame home, first mentioned in your first post, of this thread, can be more than the cost of a stick built home.
Some people want it because of the look, and feel of a timber framed home/house.
Others do it because they want to build their own home and want to learn a different method of building.
Some do it because they can harvest their own trees and mill them up themselves and then cut the joints and erect it.
There are as many reasons to do it as there are people out there doing it.
The costs can vary a lot from having a turn key house done for you out of s4s oak, to the DIY builder, making it out of his own standing timber stock.
So it's hard to say what the actual costs would be but I heard once on average it's about $175 per sqft. For a finished turn key type house/home. That was a while ago, and in my area. Different areas of the country may have different prices.
Hope this post keeps it interesting.
Jim

[Fla._Deadheader]

Thanks Jim. I had to sit back in my chair, upon reading the price ??? ???
  I could probably search enough to get the details, but, If the corners and headers are beams, how are the walls filled in between door frames and corners???  2 X's and insulation, or ???
   I must be out of touch with the rest of the country, but, down here, a stick built or masonry house of 2000 sq/ft would run $130,000 or so.
   Hard to believe that in Arky's area, someone would spend that much. He mentions having worked on several, but, maybe not the magnitude of what you described.  Thanks again.

[logman]

Fla Deadheader, My timber frame should only be about
$50 sq ft or less depending on how much I continue to do
myself.  I used sips (structural insulated panels) for walls
which is the insulation and outside sheathing plus osb on
the inside which I'll be covering with wood.  I could of cut
the cost even more if I had cut my timbers and other boards
that I've had to buy because I didn't have the time to do it
plus a way to dry and t&g the roofing boards.  I haven't
scrimped on materials either, I've bought everything at
Home Depot or Lowe's at normal cost.  I tried to get a
discount at several places but that didn't work out.  I want
to hurry up and get it done so I can play more with my
sawmill and maybe try and start a timber frame/log home
business.  To change the subject, I am very interested in
what you do.  How do you know what rivers to search for
sunken logs, is that something you research first or do you
just dive and search?  I'm assuming these are old logs that
were lost while being floated down the river to the mill.
Is there ever any questions as far as ownership?

[logman]

Jim, thanks for the offer to help me post pictures.  I looked
at forum tools and I'll try and figure it out but I don't know
the ins and outs of computers yet.  I don't have a digital
camera but I do have a digital camcorder that takes stills
and whatever.  I haven't even really messed with that too
much either.  Are you going to the eastern conference?  I
wanted to go to last years because it was so close in WV
but I was just too busy.  I will be at next years because I
see it's going to be in Pa.

[Fla._Deadheader]

LOGMAN ole buddy !!!!  That's MUCH better than Jim's guesstimate. I know he said "turnkey" but, WHEW   ;D
  There was a house built right near me, last year, that I THINK might have been Timber Frame. I believe they used foam panels for filler. I may know the guy that built it. I got him on my list of things to take care of, as soon as I get back to prowling around.
  If ya got the right software, postin pics is pretty easy. Sure would like to see what ya did. Thanks

[Fla._Deadheader]

   Logman, I'm back. Hadda rest my leg.
   Appreciate yer input.
  About submerged logging, I would bet that nearly every decent sized river east of the Mississippi has a great quantity of submerged pre-cut logs. A lot of the tributaries into these rivers would have logs also. If you go to the Internet search engines, there are LOTS of photos of log rafts.
   If I lived farther north, say Carolinas and such, I would definitely dive some rivers and poke around with a good 5' probe.
  As far as research, try your local library and do a reference search for watermills and sawmills. That would give you a very good starting point to look. The easiest way to get logs to a mill 100 years ago, was float them. That was also the best way to get rid of the slabs, other than burning for fuel.
  Ya gotta remember, the Spanish and British were here LONG before the rest of the Europeans. There are records of land grants for logging and sawmill sites.
   IDing logs can be tricky. Some of the actual cutters would "brand" their logs, to get credit for their work. If we find one, it is actually easier to leave it than to do all the stupid research to find "heirs" to the cutters, and give them first right of refusal.  (Dontcha just LOVE our fairminded govt.??)
  If there are no brands, they are fair game, AS LONG as you have the correct permits. : :
  

[Jim_Rogers]

Logman:
I am going to the eastern Conference.
Maybe FF users/timber framers could met at the Conference. On Friday late afternoon there is a Trade Show Reception (4:30 to 6 pm) where we could meet and shake hands. I'll make it a point to be at this reception and look for FF users.
Jim

[Jim_Rogers]

Special message to NORWISCUTTER:
I sent you a pm (private message) about a month ago. I saw you online today, and you didn't get the message.
Please if you can, check your message box.
Someone is trying to contact you.
Jim

[Jeff]

I sent an email to him Jim.

[UNCLEBUCK]

My reason for going post and beam was that I have oak and ash trees on the farm and was tired of the scribed way with pine and this is my last time building, what once was a woods full of no good hardwood trees is ending up to be the preferred tree for timber framing, I got lucky but wow for the reading I have done on my own before starting , sometimes I still get second thoughts of what I am doing but those are the days I go do something else, seeing someone elses progress pics really gives me hope !  ;) my fiance is from michigan and boy is she fussy about me building her a country cottage , she wont move here till I get it done, why this house might take 30-40 years !  :D