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Author Topic: Underwater log market???  (Read 14521 times)

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Offline Maineloggerkid

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Underwater log market???
« on: March 30, 2009, 08:23:20 pm »
I was wondering if anyone could help me figure something out. Where would one go about finding the buyers for these submerged logs? Obviously people buy them, and it seems to be a very high paying product, but who buys  them, and how do you contact them??

Any advice would be nice, or if anyone actaully knows of a company/mill/group that buys them would be great.
                                                                     Thanks.
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Offline Tom

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2009, 08:53:37 pm »
It's actually pretty easy.  A transaction would go something like this.

Buyer:  "My!  That's some pretty lumber.  How much is it?"
Seller:   "Thankyou.  I want $100 a board foot."
Buyer:   "That's too much.  I think I'll shop around".
Seller:    "OK. 
Buyer:    "Who else is sawing it?"
Seller:    "Nobody.  I'm the only one that has any."
Buyer:   "Maybe I should wait until the price goes down."
Seller:    "OK, but the price is going up tomorrow."
Buyer:   "How much did you say you wanted for it?"

When you are the only game in town, you don't look for wholesalers and don't sell to retailers.  They are all customers.
extinct

Offline Ironwood

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 08:59:15 pm »
I have no constructive input, other than to say in these economic times it will be tough to find a home for such a high end product.

 Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 10:14:10 pm »
You might want to contact the fella from Axeman II.  He might have some insight.
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Offline Chico

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 10:35:10 pm »
There's a co in either Mass., Maine or one of those other aggressor states ;D up there that specializes in that kind of work . I saw it somewhere I'll see if I can find it again and give you the site
Chico
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Offline shinnlinger

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2009, 10:38:03 pm »
Fishfarm might be onto something, because that guy comes across as a complete idiot, but seems to have alot of equipment.

He really must get $10,000 a log because at the rate of 1 log a week and the toll he puts on his equipment he needs to be pulling in the dough.

I think Tom is is also onto something though, that guy from axman uses an Alaskan mill to process his own stuff and sells directly to the customer.  HIgh end fireplace mantels

WHat I would do before I got too far along is check on the laws in your area.  I heard of a guy in MIchigan pulling logs from Lake superior who went to jail because he didn't have the right permits.

I have a buddy with a crane who owns frontage on a deep pond that was supposedly used as a log dump after the Hurricane of 38 and he has a brother in law who scuba dives, but I cant get them to look into it.
Shinnlinger
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Offline Maineloggerkid

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 10:42:21 pm »
I am already looking into the permits. I have some friends in the state house that can help me get started on the permit process.
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Offline Chico

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2009, 11:18:36 pm »
I was wrong it was an old story I was reading a couple of months ago It was a guy from MInn and they got the logs out of lake Michigan They had a law passed to allow it apparently about the time they were doing it
Chico
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Offline 4genlgr

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2009, 11:34:16 pm »
There is a guy here in maine who does this. it was recently i saw somthing about him(last 4 months)
not sure if it was "Bill Greene's Maine" on channel 6 or in the portland paper
poke around the archives of the papers around the state you should come up with some info

Offline ScottAR

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2009, 11:35:49 pm »
Wouldn't talk to the guy from Axemen II...  The Washington dept. of
natural resources has got him by the short hairs as apparently he
didn't have any permits or permission. 
Scott
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Offline Dan_Marino

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2009, 08:41:24 am »
I was wondering if anyone could help me figure something out. Where would one go about finding the buyers for these submerged logs? Obviously people buy them, and it seems to be a very high paying product, but who buys  them, and how do you contact them??

Any advice would be nice, or if anyone actaully knows of a company/mill/group that buys them would be great.
                                                                     Thanks.

Check out this site: http://www.underwater.com/archives/arch/uw-fa97.03.htm

Interesting quote:  "The sudden interest in this "new" business isn't sudden at all and the business isn't new. Underwater Logging, written by John E. Cayford and Ronald E. Scott and published in 1964, details the preparations, equipment, and research needed for embarking upon the reclamation of the billions of board feet of lumber lying underwater. The book, now out of print, even mentions that International Undersea Services began logging in Maine's Penobscot River in 1955. In those early efforts, divers recovered a 72-foot Norfolk pine marked with "the King's broad arrow" and destined for use by the Royal Navy. Obviously felled before the Revolutionary War, the tree was still in excellent shape."


Offline Jeff

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2009, 08:49:53 am »
The Ronald Scott identified in that quote is our very own Ron Scott, Forestry Forum Administrator.  :)
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Offline Ironman

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2009, 09:19:33 am »
Hey guys,

I thought I would just add real quickly, hoping someone has not already offered this.  The folks I have worked with who do this are usually hunting the virgin longleaf pine that was harvested in the southern Us and gulf states around the turn of the century and even afterward, up until maybe the 40's and 50's when most of that species was logged to near extinction.  The logs were so laden with pine tar resin that they would not float.  When they were felled and dumped into the river at least half of them would sink.  We are talking about 2-300 year old timber that was fully mature, say 40"+ BHD.

The fellows I dealt with that were harvesting this timber were working pretty hard for the money, but I will say that the clients you are looking for are high end interior decorators and historical societies that buy this timber to renovate southern plantation homes and high end homes that have the 'heart pine' flooring and moldings.  This is a very dense, red, very hard wood that is actually difficult to work and mill.  I know a gentleman here in SC that works exclusively with this material that he reclaims from old cotton mills.

The price is dificult to establish but it is easily the most desirable, custom flooring product available.  So that should give you an indication as to where to price your logs once you find them.  Also I have a good friend who restores naval vessels.  I am refering to very nice private yachts in New England.  He buys longleaf exclusively and it is in fact preferred for ships masts and decking on wooden sailing vesels of the colonial period.  If you were restoring or maintaining one of these vessels you would be shot for treason if you considered using any wood species other than longleaf southern pine.  This was the preferred timber of the British Royal Navy for ships masts and decking because it was so rosinous that it was virtually indestructable in terms of salt water penetrating the timber itself.  An extremely durable and long lasting wood species for naval vessels.

I don't need to tell you that he pays top dollar for these logs, when he can find them.  They are something he literally hunts for on private properties all over the South.  He is a very interesting character, but fair and honest.  He may be a good client for you.


I hope this helps.  If you want to speak with some of these folks just drop me a line and I will put you in touch.


Jesse Sewell
www.ironmart.com


Jesse Sewell
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Offline Bill_G

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2009, 04:19:02 pm »
Good luck in NH, tried years ago,better chance of seeing God.

Offline Clark

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2009, 06:24:43 pm »
I've yet to hear of any company that is really making good (or even decent) money doing the underwater logging thing.  I think it is a good way to make a small fortune, but only by investing a large fortune first!  :D

Clark

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2009, 11:23:31 am »
A specialty market that can be good if you can get log removal permits from your state DNR. Don't try the log salvage without the proper permits, however. This is usually the barrier to the salvage project. I'm told that the state of Michigan won't  issue any permits at present. Mostly due to a lack of knowedgeable personnel to issue and administer the program.

Check with nearby mills and log buyers for a potential market source. Also, to determine any log ownerships that might be claimed after recovery. Title to the logs may have to be cleared. Again, check with your state laws concerning salvage rights.
~Ron

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2009, 12:19:18 pm »

 
Quote
Also, to determine any log ownerships that might be claimed after recovery.

  Let me tell you how Florida will treat you, in this situation.  ::) ::)

  YOU find a log with a brand.
  YOU salvage it to the landing.
  YOU have to call the Sheriff in the county you are pulling that log from.
  THEY will arrest that log.
  YOU haul it to THEIR designated site.

  THEY will supposedly do a search for the "Rightful" owners.
  IF they find the "Rightful" owners, THEY work out arrangements with the owners.
  YOU get nothing but all the expense of being the "Good Guy".
  If they do NOT find the "Rightful Owners", YOU get to pay their expenses, and THEN,  You   get the log.

  Wanna be the "Good Guy", and work for the Politicos ???  I'm NOT suggesting to be unlawful in your dealings, just beware of what "THEY" will pull on you, because of the $10,000.00 "value" of the sunken logs, that most can't find a market for ???  ::) ::) ::) ;D
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Offline cheyenne

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2009, 06:41:06 pm »
Once again your thought process amazes me. Talk about a nitch market. But as people have posted the politicians & tree huggers will make your life hell. All they want is to tax & permit everybody to death rather than harvest a resource & work themselves. A man wants to create an economy & provide jobs & they make it impossable. If it's feasable go for it there's no telling what you may find. I wish you all the best in your endevers.. 8) 8) 8)...Cheyenne
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Offline Maineloggerkid

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2009, 08:28:58 pm »
THanks for all the positive replies, and yes, I am well aware that the politicians will give me trouble. My family has been part of a group battling state crap for the last 10 years. Here in Unorganized territories,( a place that isn't an actual town) They even try to tell us what color to paint outhouses at our camps. I don't listen to them, but it is ridiculous.

I am pretty sure It can be done, 4 genlgr mentioned someone was doing it, and I think I remeber something about this. I'll just keep working on it, and in the meantime, I have a job that is paying the bills, so there is no urgency.
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Underwater log market???
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2009, 12:01:10 am »
I don't know if this will help you any or not, but here is a shot. -- Tonypassbanjorims.com  .  They make "Lost Timbre "  rims for high end Stelling banjos mainly out of sunken old growth wood from the great lakes.  I don't know what he charges for the rims, but those banjos are EXPensive but nice.. ;D  Tim
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