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how much to charge

Started by kenneth, March 28, 2009, 06:46:43 PM

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kenneth

Hello, I have a job in southern VT clearing a house lot. I burn 8+ cord a year so I was happy to take the 6 acre lot for Just the wood. (Yes I made him sigh a contract.)He now says he wants to burn wood and would like to know what I will charge him to take the trees down and pile up the wood. I do all of this by hand ( or by shoulder ) or my beautiful wife helps me lug it. What is fair to charge? Any one have any ideas. Neighors are also asking what I would charge to cut.I was thinking $25 per hour if they want the wood. Less if I keep it. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.( I do not lug brush.)                                                                                                                                                                       Thanks ,Ken

QwikDraw

You want to clear 6 acres with no machines for the firewood? 
Good thing I didn't price the job...it's hard to beat free....

I had a post all typed out but it was so negative I deleted it.

Good luck.



gunman63

I think if your cutting it , using your saw and they keep the wood, that should be fair

Kevin

In my opinion if you want to do it and need the money then you will bid on the low side.
Even though it may look good now, once you get into it you may have different feelings later once the sweat starts to bead.
You should charge for yourself, your saw and fuel, truck and anyone helping.
Firewood isn't worth much standing, the value comes in once it's cut, delivered, split and stacked.
There are always options to save the customer money and that would be to drop the trees and buck it into firewood length and leave it for them to split and deliver.

DR_Buck

If the guy changed his mind after he signed a contract I wouldn't trust him at all and walk away from the job.   Unless you're insured for that type of work you may be setting yourself up for big trouble with this guy.   He could end up owning you truck, chainsaw and everything else.

I say .....WALK AWAY NOW.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Ironwood

WOW, you couldnt get me to touch that. My muscles hurt just thinking about it.


                       Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Bill_G

We usually charge by the acre and take any salvage, the salvage value sometimes affects the per acre charge, If the landowner wants to keep any of the salvage you will have to add the value to your price. When you charge by the acre or the job no one cares what or how much equipment you have as long as the job is done how and when you agreed upon. One reason for a contract is people like to change their minds and everyone needs to be protected. Clearing six acres for the firewood is alot of work for very little money.

John Mc

In my area of Vermont, standing firewood goes for $20/cord on the high end, and down to free, or even pay someone to remove them on the low end. A lot of it depends on how convenient the access is. Typical a couple of years ago was $5 or 6 per cord. It climbed a bit last fall to $10+.

Almost all of the value in the firewood is in the labor (that $20/cord stumpage rate goes up to around $200/cord green cut, split, and maybe delivered. We topped $300/cord for seasoned firewood last fall.) A couple of woodlot owners got a rude awakening when they decided  

A couple of landowners in my area got a bit of an education in firewood economics last year when they tried to interest some friends in "you can cut firewood on my land: you cut and split, and give me half, and you get to keep the other half". Not many takers for that deal... at least not many who knew what they were getting in to.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ironwood

Wish I could get $20 standing. Come on over.

    Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Gary_C

It's not worth a penney less than what it would cost you to have someone cut and deliver an equivalent amount of wood to your house. After all you are going to have to either do the same thing again for your own use or hire someone to do it.

If you do not think highly of your own efforts and price them accordingly, no one else will either.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

arojay

What about the contract?  Whatever you decide to charge, if you have a contract will you rewrite it and if so will it be binding?
440B skidder, JD350 dozer, Husqvarnas from 335 to 394. All spruced up

Sawyerfortyish

Around here clearing for a house the wood is valued at 0. Time,labor and equipment is either by the acre or day usally about 1800-2000$ per day. Thats cutting removing trees and chipping the tops and brush and sometimes stumpping. Who's going to be working the tops? You or someone else. I 've seen guys clear just for the wood. They don't last long only a couple days and most if they haven't hurt themselves yet realize what a mess they've gotten into. Any way usally someone gets hurt or the job gets left to someone with the right equipment to do. Good luck and be safe I know this sounds very negative (I had to delete a lot to)but I've seen it happen so many times.

gunman63

since theres only a chainsaw involved and one guy  $25 a hr i still feel is good, if u do it by the hour then stay that way and charge for the hours your wife works also, it didnt sound like he was  clearing the whole  lot just cutting the wood. if you hauing  brush to, hire some  kids for 10-12 a hr  your still getting $25 a for them too,

rebocardo

I charge a min. $25 per hour no matter what I am doing. If they are not keeping the wood, I charge them to buck it and pile it, but, do the final splitting on my own time. I would never clear a lot just for the firewood unless I was in bad straights for wood.

SuperDuty335

Quote from: Sawyerfortyish on March 29, 2009, 12:33:05 PM
Around here clearing for a house the wood is valued at 0. Time,labor and equipment is either by the acre or day usally about 1800-2000$ per day. Thats cutting removing trees and chipping the tops and brush and sometimes stumpping. Who's going to be working the tops? You or someone else. I 've seen guys clear just for the wood. They don't last long only a couple days and most if they haven't hurt themselves yet realize what a mess they've gotten into. Any way usally someone gets hurt or the job gets left to someone with the right equipment to do. Good luck and be safe I know this sounds very negative (I had to delete a lot to)but I've seen it happen so many times.

100% Accurate. I bid a job clearing trees for a guy and gave him a decent price. He declined and said he found someone to do it for the wood. A few weeks later he tells me they quit on him because of "personal reasons". Everyone wants something, in this case a lot, for nothing. He requested another quote so I quoted the job again but haven't heard back.

kenneth

Thank you for all thoughts. I wrote an agreement that I got to keep the wood. Now he sees how many cord I have piled up and is surprised. :o Now he is going to burn wood. When he tries safley falling, Bucking,carring,and stacking that much wood,I think he will quit. (I have 20 acres of my own I cut from so I am not in desperate need of the wood.)The site is flat easy to get to and exactly 5 miles from my house. I am willing to change the agreement on paper if he wants to give me money.I was not sure what to charge.
      I too am worried that he changed his mind, but if I have it in writing I am some what safe right?  :-\
     He does not want all 6 acres cleared. He has marked about 4. I have already cleared 2. I save limb wood and all. He cleares the brush.

                                Thanks again,
                                            Ken

thecfarm

Ain't nothing safe with lawyers.They can find a loop hole in just about anything if you have the money.I would have no idea what to charge.Depends on a lot of things.I know of one guy that charges $20 an hour just for himself.I do feel $25 is low after you figure in chain wear,gas, and oil and the work you have to do.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

beenthere

kenneth
So you are going to take/remove the wood you have worked up so far (per agreement), and then charge for felling, bucking, stacking the remaining 2 acres marked (per new agreement)?

If so, I'd make sure to remove the wood you think is yours before doing any more labor on the property. So's he can't keep you from getting at your wood.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Gary_C

This situation is just like getting free or very low priced trees from developers or tree service people. The rule for you should be to never saw free logs on site nor cut up and stack firewood on site.  Reason is because if the previous owners see what can be made from those logs, they get to thinking they did not get enough for what you got from them and they want a share of your efforts.

So beenthere is right, get your wood out of there first before you negotiate on the rest of the trees. Otherwise you might give back some of your work. And if you do that again, don't let wood accumulate on the site.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

kenneth

Thank you . This has been on my mind all day. I will get my wood out of there before doing anything else. Also it is a very valuable lesson in not letting the wood sit around too long. Next time I will take it away imediatly.
                        Thanks,
                               Ken

metalspinner

Gary,
Your advice holds true for sawing lumber on sight, as well. I made the mistake of milling a large log on sight because of convienence.  When lots of clear boards started coming off the log, the homeowner started asking questions on value, etc.  The atmosphere was kinda strange after that.  Now, I bring all logs back to my place for milling.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

John Mc

Kenneth -

If it's only good or firewood, the standing wood is worth very little per cord. In my part of Vermont, $15/cord is on the high side (I did hear of some going for $20). Some of it is going for $6/cord or even free for the "right to cut firewood" (usually the the free stuff is because the wood is hard to get to, and the landowner wants to accomplish some other objective, like thinning or clearing). My bet is that even $10/cord might be high these days, now that natural gas/propae/fuel oil prices have gone back down a bit.

Last fall, green firewood around here (Champlain Valley / west slopes of the Green Mtns) was going for $200-$220 per cord. It's dropped a bit now to $185-$200 for green wood. This may or may not include local delivery. It almost never includes stacking (a dump truck dumps it where you want in your yard).

So one way would be to take the average green cut/split/delivered price and subtract the stumpage. Say $190 - $10 = $180 per cord. Another way to look at it would be time and materials: What is it worth per hour of your time and fuel/equipment times how many hours you think it takes you per cord.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

chucker

clearing lots for new home construction 35.00 an hour and i keep the wood! if they want the wood its 25.00 an hour blocked and piled. burn the brush on site then its 50.00 an hour with me keeping the wood! all the wood that i cut in a day is removed at the end of the day as it is loaded as i move forward .. contracts are usually worth as much as a cord of wood or less!! pretty much do all the work by myself or a few day laberors from the local hireing firm( manpower). equipment is small and easy to operate with low overhead, a small skidder and self loader trailer thats hauled behind a 3/4 ton ford.
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sjfarkas

I have developed an excel sheet to use for bidding jobs.  Start with categories for labor, equipment, transportation, fuel, misc, etc.  Then estimate time and amounts.  Multiply accross and then total the column.  Take this total and add a small percentage for some wiggle room and it should give you an amount to charge.  I always use my excel sheet so I don't screw customers or myself.
Always try it twice, the first time could've been a fluke.

logger444

It depends on your age. if you are young, dumb, and full of rum; then charge 25 an hour. If you are 40 charge 50 an hour because when you blow out your back you will need the extra dough for your deductible. Hang up your pulp hook and invest in something hydraulic. Chronic pain is something you don't want in your life.

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