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Is this a Massey Ferguson clutch?

Started by Paul_H, March 26, 2009, 03:47:45 PM

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Paul_H

This pto clutch is in my Cushman mower but it has MF bolts holding it together and I wondered if it is a Massey Ferguson clutch.Does this look familiar to anybody?








I took it apart on the bench.My concern is the wear on the 6 tabs on each clutch plate.They are realitively soft like cast iron so I don't think I can build up the tabs with weld.







I could swap position of the 4 plates to extend the life of them a little while longer.There is  heavier wear on the mower side of the clutch (the farthest from my palm)






This shows the MF bolts on the cup inside the clutch






A whole new clutch is $2500.
A rebuild kit which is the 4 plates and 3 wear surface plates is $750  ???

Do you think it's a MF item or a Cushman? A single set of piston rings for the Mitsubishi C-75 engine was $104 per cylinder so I think the mark up by Cushman is extreme.


There is a number stamped in the clutch which isn't a Cushman #.  C449-0159





Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

These plates are really close.

link

I phoned them down in Kentucky a few minutes ago and they are from a MF 35 and are 5" dia and the ones I need are 4".
Less than $11 a piece,I would have scooped them quick as a cat.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Fla._Deadheader


Couldn't you layer on some weld, with a Mig ???  It won't get all that hot, and, I have welded a little cast with a mig and plain old mild steel wire ???  Just have to stand on yer ear, and hold yer tongue JIST right.  ::) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Sprucegum

Like FD said. For that kinda monet I'd sure do a little fill'n'grind with a mig. Even a fill with brass would give you some more run time.

isawlogs


Paul ,you made a truck run with wood , and did a fine job of it .. Now you going to tell me you can't rebuild these little peices , Go get some 5/32 rod and lower the amps and start tacking on some metal and grind , take the 1000$ and come out east this summer , I know a place that you can stay at real cheap ,  ;) The girls can stay in the house   ;D :D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Paul_H

My only concern is the cast iron,if that's what it is.I was thinking about building the cast "cup" with brass or even some stainless rod but should I preheat for the SS?
The 4 clutch plates with the tabs seem to be cast too.What is a good way to test?Grinding and check the sparks?
Maybe the mig like you guys mentioned. :)
It would be worth the $750 even if I had a melt down because the little machine is solid and well built.We weighed the worst case scenario of replacing the hydrostatic pump,this clutch and even a engine against a new Craftsman and figure we'll stick with this old girl for awhile longer.So far I've put around $500 into the engine and it's ready to drop back into the machine once the clutch is dressed up.

I appreciate the kicks in the butt  :D
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Sprucegum

For a piece that size I would go ahead and preheat, just enough to sweat it out, even for the brass. A little post heat and a wrap to slow cooling is just as important.Slow and easy wins with cast. Cast steel is a little more forgiving than cast iron, not as brittle. And yes you can tell by the sparks. The smaller the sparks the harder it is.

Corley5

Was it working alright before the teardown  ???  What about dressing the pieces with a Dremel and putting it back together ???
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Paul_H

Yes,it was working ok.The tabs are really getting banged up from the chatter so I want to address this before dropping the engine back in because it can't be in there to work on the clutch properly.
I grinded a cast iron frying pan handle I had leftover from the woodgas truck and the sparks were a dull dark orange and the clutch cup was a lot brighter so I'm going to do a little welding today if the rain hold off.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

isawlogs


  So .....   How are you coming along  ???   eh eh
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Paul_H

Tres bien!
On the cup so far anyhow.I have one surface of the 6 done already and it seems to weld up ok.Was screwing up a bit at first so I tries something bold and new.I went and got my reading glasses and now am able to see what is going on.
They fall off though,when leaning over with the grinder.I came in for an elastic band  ;D

I welded this tab with a copper plate as a backing to cool and to place the weld against but it's thin copper so maybe a chunk of aluminum.
The wear surface of the clutch plate seems to be bronze or copper(?)





The cup welds up nicely and a 7/8" stick is a good grinding guide.






Back to work.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

Well,the welding is all done and most of the grinding,just the inside of the cup needs cleaning up.A lathe would be the ticket but John the machinist has closed shop for awhile so I'll look for the worn out grinding wheels that are small enough diameter to fit inside the cup.
The aluminum worked well as a backing for the clutch plates and they cleaned up nicely with the grinder for the rough work and dressed up with a raker file.





Each clutch plate was flipped over so the unworn side became the new wear surface to make it easier to match up on this little jig.The back side that I built up with weld isn't so critical and one day it might be prudent to swap the wear surfaces as they wear.






I had my reading glasses held to my head with a heavy duty elastic band that hold bunches of asparagus together but after awhile the glasses were digging pretty hard on the nose so off came the elastic.I was bent over grinding and the glasses fell off and landed on the spinning grinder and went flying off into the mud.The glass is scratched a bit but it's off to the side a bit. :)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Fla._Deadheader


Ain'tcha got no Duct Tape ??? ::) ::) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Paul_H

For my tear ducts? They were just a cheap drugstore pair,nothing to cry about  :D
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

beav39

looks good paul nice work should work great
sawdust in the blood

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Gary_C

Looks good Paul. A little yankee ingenuity and paitence can trump MF's high prices every time. Oh dear, Jeff's at it again.  :D :D That is not what I typed.

Some of that wear is probably caused by vibration of the load or engine. Make sure your blades are balanced to minimize that vibration. You've already minimized the amount it can vibrate by closing up the gaps, and if the engine runs better that will help too.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Paul_H

Gary,

I was wondering about that because it seems the tabs went downhill fast.The engine always had a chug-chug sound at an idle,nothing smooth about it.The #1 cyl was filled with rusty water that poured in from the air filter and there was some minor pitting on the cyl wall.I suspect this happened over a couple of winters because the engine would come up hard when turning it over so I got in the habit of slowly turning the engine over by hand the past couple of springs to make sure it was free.
When the engine was idling and the pto was disengaged the sound of the clutches jingling could be heard from across the yard.I'll check for blade balance too.

Thanks
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

isawlogs


  I knew you would be good to get this done , nice job there Paul ... reserving a room yet . ???
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Paul_H

I was hoping to be able to stay with my family,not out in the barn  :D
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

isawlogs


Barn !!!!  Who said anything about a barn ???    ::)   I had the hammock tighted up between the maples in the yard in mind .  Paul , the barn , thats for our pets  ::)  :D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

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