Mountain lions in Missouri

[Bibbyman]

These pictures of a mountain lion were circulated around the office today.  The e-mail had originated from the Missouri Department of Conservation and was said to be of a road kill yesterday south of Fulton, Mo.  

Someone else heard a report on the radio at noon.  I've not got any "independent" reports on the incident but will update as info comes my way.   We've seen and heard mountain lions for years around here but the Conservation Department always dismissed the sightings.  

[Larry]

Just looks like a Bobcat on steroids.




Couple of neighbors swear they have seen them but I have not been conviced.

[Den Socling]

Same thing here in northcentral PA. I saw a mountain lion walk across the road in front of me on a sunny morning near Cherry Springs. People who work for DCNR say that they have seen them. The state says they don't exist. One thing is for sure. I don't want one coming up behind me in the woods. I welcome the return of everything from Fishers to Elk but I don't want mountain lions. The Whitetail herds need thinned but my friends and I don't.

[Larry]

I think it is pretty neat.  We got bear coming up from Arkansas, elk coming in from Kansas and up north, mountain lions coming in from who knows where.  Also hear tails of black pumas running around and I don't even know what they are.

MDC won't confirm anything until they get a road kill or somebody kills an elk during deer season and than we hear it was an escapee from a game farm.

[Bibbyman]

Here is info from one of the local TV stations on the road kill mountain lion.

Mountain Lion Story on KMIZ TV Columbia, MO.

Local people have seen, heard, and found tracks of mountain lions for many, many years. I don't think they have migrated here from anywhere - they were always here.

A few years back,  an old geezer trapped a bobcat in our county.  It was a big deal and every hunter that could get their hands on a trap set traps for them and found there were quite a number of them – yet, I've never seen one in the wild in our county and most people won't.

[Tom]

They're kinda rare.  They get dropped, sporadically, form flying saucers. :D

[OneWithWood]

Cats do like high places so a saucer would probably intrigue them  :D

If you want to see a cat in the forest you need to look up.  They sleep up in the trees.  You will very rarely see one when it is on the ground.

[Haytrader]

Oh Tom,
You are so full of it.
Put that jug back behind the seat.   ;)

[Bibbyman]

Tom brought to my attention some earlier discusion on big cats in this thread.

Hunting Sportsmanship

[DanG]

That old thread was an interesting read. It mentioned another rare beast...Timberbeast.  What ever happened to him?

[smwwoody]

Hi Den

we have seen a few of the cats up here in benezett too.  Ill make you a deal we will trade you some Elk for all your big cats and I bet you will be wanting the cats back real Quick

Woody

[Bibbyman]

At least MOST of the big cats here remain hidden and off the roads.  ;)

Hitting dear is bad enough,  I don't want an elk in my lap. >:(

[Den Socling]

Woody,

We have a bunch of vac kilns near Emporium. I've seen lots of elk. I usually see them in woods or fields but also on a golf course and in an orchard. I bet they can be a pain. But deer can be a pain as well. Even rabbits can wipe out a garden.

Bibbyman,

I've always worried about hitting elk. Even in my truck, they would end up in my face.   One evening, I'm driving past a field where I expected them to be but they weren't there. I was paying too much attention to the field and DanG near rear-ended an elk. They were walking in single file down the road to another field. They were on the right side of the road, though.  ;D

Den

[Bibbyman]

Here is the news account from the KC Star with a few more details. The location where it was hit is on my morning run to the office and about 5 miles from our farm - as the crow flies.

Cougar killed Monday in Missouri is more proof big cats roam state, experts say - KC Star

It looked like in the picture and now it's told that the cat was missing one front paw. I wonder if that had something to do with it getting hit on the highway?  There is almost always a dead deer in that stretch of the highway - probably a lot more crippled.  Would be easy pickin's for a handicapped cat.

[smwwoody]

Den

The elk are great most of the time yes they can do some damage but that is not the problem.  The problem is the people that come to see them.

Are your kilns at Emporium Hard Woods  "rossi"  I have cut lots of timber off of that mountian in front of thier mill.  I live about 20 minuts from that mill

Woody

[ARKANSAWYER]

  For years Arkansas Game and Fish said that there were not any Big Cats in Arkansas.  I teach Hunters ED and told them that I have many times heard the call of the cat down on the Buffalo and Lower White rivers while frog gigging.  It will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.  I tell myself that cats do not like water.   They tried to tell me that it was a Bobcat but I knew better.  NOW they say that we have them since one or two have been killed and laid out on the tailgate of a truck.  We's got lots of elk and bears and coyotes are getting out of control again.
ARKANSAWYER

[Den Socling]

Woody,

The "people" who come to see the elk shouldn't be a problem but, with people, you'll always find morons. There are signs that say "don't stop on the road to view elk". You wouldn't think that such a sign would be necessary. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop the morons from parking on the road.

Our kilns are across town at Lewis & Hockenberry. I pass Emporium Hardwoods often but haven't sold anything to them, yet.
That's a rugged area. Must be tough to cut some of those mountainsides. But then, 150 years ago, they were cutting the same mountainsides and skidding in snow or with splashdams.

Den

[Bibbyman]

More info from the Fulton Sun.

Road kill proves to be Callaway cougar - Fulton Sun

I've heard a mountain lion scream two times in my life.  Once when I was small and playing about 100 yards behind our house.  Like ARKANSAWYER says,  it'll make the hair stand on the back of your neck.  I had no idea what it was but ran and told Mom that I heard a woman screaming across the valley.  She didn't believe me and didn't go investigate.  

When I was 15,  I was deer hunting about 1/4 mile behind our house and was setting above a spring.  It was an hour or so before sundown and the woods were starting to get dark.  I heard the cat scream on the ridge across from me.  I thought, "I'm going to get a shot at that panther.".    I set there with white knuckles wrapped around the Savage 310 30/30 bolt-action with thumb on safety and finger on the trigger.  About 10 minutes went by and my eyes were about dried out from not blinking.  Then it screamed again - this time closer.  After I quit shaking,  I thought, "Boy! Any minute now I'm going to see it."  I set there frozen about another 10 minutes - all the time the light was fading.  It screamed again closer yet.  I thought,  "This SOB is going to eat me!  I'm getting to hell out of here!".  I don't think there would have been a cross county runner that could have kept up with me getting back to the house.  

We've seen tracks and had other evidence that big cats were around.  Sometimes you can get the idea one is around by the way the dogs in the area act up.

The only time I've seen a big cat was in the mid-70's.  Mary and I were returning from a small town west of us and was about one mile out of town on a gravel road.  There was a crust of snow covering the rolling prairie and open clear fields.  I looked out to my right and saw what looked to be a Black Labrador running across the field.  I pointed it out to Mary and we stopped to watch it run across a large, open field.  It was not any type of dog.  You could tell by the body shape and proportions, but also because of how it moved,  it's tail was as long as it main body and whipped and twisted as it ran.  

A neighbor that lives between us and the small town on that same gravel road is getting gravel out of the stream on our farm.  He stopped on his last load out the other evening and visited a minute.  I asked if he'd heard about the road kill mountain lion and he hadn't yet.  We got to talking and he said he'd seen a black panther back in 1976 or 77.  I said we had too - up by this small town.  He said, Yea, that's were I saw it too - between this guy's farm and another's.  That's exactly where we had seen it. He said it setting in the road and he tried to run over it.  It had run down the road for some time but then jumped the ditch and crossed a filed.  I said when we saw it, there was a crust of snow still on the fields. He says, yea, there was snow on when I saw it too.  Well could have been he was 100 yards ahead of us and saw the same cat at the same time.

He reported it to the game warden but it was dismissed like all the other sightings, as black mountain lions are very rare even where there are plentiful.

[smwwoody]

Den

I know Dave Lewis.  I real good friend of mine Dick Sorg, cuts for him.  You'll have to let me know the next time you are in the area and we can get together for a cup of Coffee.


Bibby

It is about the same here on the big cats.  I have heard them three times and saw one jump onto a road and back off just as fast as it got there.  the Game commision says that there are none here.  The first one that I heard was when I was about 14 alone in the woods about dusk on a horse.  Once I got the horse calmed downe enough to get dack on him we could have wone the tripple crown all in one day as fast and as far as I ran him to get home.  my dad was in the barn when I got home and didn't realy care about the cat he was to interested in telling me that If I ever brought a horse in looking like that agian I would have been better off letting the cat get me

Woody

[Jeff]

That old thread was an interesting read. It mentioned another rare beast...Timberbeast.  What ever happened to him?

I heard from him last month. He was going to send a letter to Mark M's future son-in-law.

I think has job and other interests have takin him away for a while. He still has an MD up in the woods and a lot of property, so no fear, I reckon someday the timberbeast will return.

[David_c]

i saw a mountian loin cross the road on the way home from the fireworks on july 4th girls saw it to. deer and elk are bad to hit but what i truly dont want to hit is a moose which we have plenty of. there in my back yard all the time they dont come to close though because i have 5 dogs out there 3 hounds a lab and an akita. but you sure know when there about though.

[Larry]

Mr. Dave Hamilton, a wildlife research biologist with the Missouri Department of Conservation, gave a talk about large cats in the state as a guest of the Midland Empire Audubon Society a couple of weeks ago at Missouri Western State College.

"A whole lot is happening right now, and it's just not in Missouri," Mr. Hamilton said."A lot of sightings have been reported along the Missouri and Platte River (in Nebraska) valleys.  Perhaps they are providing highways for the lions to roam from South Dakota to Texas."

We live in the bluffs close to the Missouri River and have an over abundance of deer.  Wouldn't surprise me if a lion settled in here.  Wonder if a little kitty food would help to attract them?  I would rather meet a lion in the woods than a mugger in the city.  Neighbor swears he has seen one.

Mr. Hamilton also stated that a lion was videotaped in Arkansas earlier this month.  Can't believe Arky hasn't kept us informed of this recent development.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Now, this is my Daughters story, not mine. :
  A few years ago, she lived about 3 miles, as the crow flies, from Arkansawyer.  
  About 10 PM, one night, we get this excited  phone call. She was blathering something about a cat???
  Had to get her calmed down. Thought she might have been "Tasting the Nectar", as it were.
  Well, seems that there was a lite snow on the ground, and a full moon.
  There was SOMETHING walking on the roof of their Mobile Home. It WAS possible for coons to do that, occasionally.
  Finally, they could see a shadow on the snow, of a cat, a BIG cat, going back and forth on the image of the mobile home roof, in the snow.
  Another time, they swear they saw a "Black Panther" crossing a field, not more than 200 yards from their place???
  There were black bears there also.
  She moved down here in 1996.

[Don P]

Our plumber dropped by the job last week with a pic of the bear cub he hit a couple of weeks ago. There was a mother with 2 cubs. He hit the 125 pound cub in the head with the hook under the bumper and it died instantly. He said the other cub came back to look it over, mama stayed back in the woods. This was on the edge of town by the new park. DNR sent it to VA Tech.
The last one I remember getting hit, the EMS guys put it in the back of the amalance to play a trick on the girls at the hospital...boy did they get in deep  :D.

[Bibbyman]

I got this picture in an e-mail.  The note with it said that it had been shot near Stover, MO. last fall – I assume by the man who is holding it.  Said he is over 6' tall.  Said he was deer hunting when he heard the cows throwing a fit.  Went to investigate and saw the cat trying to get a calf.

Anyone else hear anything about this?

[Buzz-sawyer]

Bibby this cat was called to a tree stand ...out west....I know this guy from a predator calling forum...he said everone and his brother has been using him and his pick for B.S on the net....but I did see your pics of the cat yall had!

[Bibbyman]

Thanks B.S...  

Stover, Mo. is not that far away and if it'd happened,  it would have been big news.  I've got contacts in the MO. Dept of Conservaton that I'll also get the story from.

T'is a one big cat!  

[Ron Scott]

That's the biggest "cat" I've ever seen. Yesterday's local newspaper had an article about cougar sightings in our local area again.

I'm regularly in the woods areas mentioned, but have never seen any nor signs of one. May be surprised one of these days.

[Buzz-sawyer]

When he skinned it it was streching to the 4th largest on record (green) but after it dried it fellout of contention...but man that is a beaty...he said , that he didnt hear it comming in the dark as he sat there all night at the carcase of a goat that it had killed and dragged of...he said the hair was standing on his neck when he realized how close it had gotten to him.....

[9shooter]

I read an artical in Countryside and Small Stock Jjournal this past month where a guy who lives in the Osark's says a 40 year old female relative of his was killed by a mountain lion while staying with he and his wife. Interesting to me was the denials they have run into with the authorities. I know there have been mountian lions in the Western U.P. Michigan for years. I have not seen them myself, but my father-in-law and brother-in-law have seen them several times. The D.N.R. denied their existance for a long time until this past year or so. 3 years ago I talked to a neighbor up there who saw one cross his back field. He called the D.N.R and reported it and they denied it was a lmountain lion, claiming it was probably a large ferral cat. He told them "good, I'll shoot that vermin next time I see it". He said "you should have heard the back peddleing on the phone. They didn't know how to get out of that lie".  They also offered to a local guy who raises sheep to "replace the value of any sheep predated by coyotes". Funny they should be suddenly concerned about his sheep. His reply,  "No thanks, I'll just shoot them and plant them along with that mountain lion thats been hanging around here". They got real excited about that and talked about "fines and going to jail". Gee, It's not like it's any big secret, why don't they just admit what they know. I supose if they had a hand in planting these cats, there might be room for lawsuits or at least public outcry should people become cat food. Personally, I like seeing wildlife, but should a bear or coon or coyote come half steppin around my place and posing a threat.... well I guess he might get lead posioning. ;)

[Buzz-sawyer]

"I supose if they had a hand in planting these cats, there might be room for lawsuits or at least public outcry should people become cat food"
It is the same all over(entire country) they covertly introduce and deny existence....
also the animals have always traveled extensive routes through the U.S along natural barriers ..which still give uninterupted cover (along Missisipi river bluffs)

Lions have been hit by cars and sighted to the tune of 600 individual sightings and still they deny thier existence....but are swift to punish for killings...
It really blows my MIND ...same with wolves and elk....very untruthful behavior!!!!!!

[Norm]

They do the same here, usually it's the line that it is one that got loose from someone raising them illegally.

Seems someone hit a cougar with a car in SE Iowa this fall. That got the news going and suddenly people were seeing them everywhere.

We get the occasional moose from up north too. Boy would one of those fill the freezer. ;D

[Bibbyman]

 

 

I picked up my trail cam pictures today.   I got a lot of coons, deer and coyotes.   This blurry picture makes me think it may be a mountain lion.  From the distance,  it's not nearly as big as an adult doe but bigger than a fawn this time of year.  The neck looks too short.  And the inside of the forleg is not white as would be if it was a deer.   It was right on the deer trail from the woods to the milo field they have been working on?   

What do you think?

[beenthere]

I think it is a large fawn.  Legs don't seem right for lion.  But suppose it could be.

[Dave Shepard]

I agree. Not compact enough for a cat.

[Ron Scott]

I agree on the large fawn.

[SwampDonkey]

Deer

[Bibbyman]

 

 

Here's a good fawn picture.   I think you can even make out its eye lashes.

[drobertson]

Looks like a deer to me as well,  but we all know the cats are nearby!

[Delawhere Jack]

Not so sure about it being a deer. Look at the front leg closest to the camera....
DanG. Look at it and think deer, and you see a deer, think cat and you see a cat....
Find any prints?

[Jeff]

Definitely a fawn

[Daver]

Something didn't look right about that big mtn lion pic.. looked too big..  the fawn pic is just that a fawn.. legs look way too skinny for a cat..

[terry f]

    I say this each time, but, how are they not there? There are a lot in Eastern Oregon, and there is no where near the cover or food (deer) you have. I'm not saying you want them, I just don't see how they aren't everywhere out there.

[Daver]

I have heard of reports even in NJ.. But no one seems to get a photo.. I think these cats are smart they stay hidden..

[beenthere]

terry f
They just aren't.  Around, but not many IMO

Can't be just the food source.

[OneWithWood]

Big cats have been documented in Southern Indiana at NWSC Crane in Green county.

[mesquite buckeye]

The face is too long, the legs too long and skinny for a long tailed cat. ;D

BTW- Good to see you around Bibbyman. I hadn't seen any of your posts lately. 8) 8) 8)

[Bibbyman]

The face is too long, the legs too long and skinny for a long tailed cat. ;D

BTW- Good to see you around Bibbyman. I hadn't seen any of your posts lately. 8) 8) 8)

I don't post as much as I use to.  Not nearly the need with so many others available to answer the questions just as well if not better.   But I'm around.   I check in on the Forum most every day and sometimes a couple of times a day if there's something going on that I'm tracking.

BTW,  neighbor about a mile south of us lost two large calves to something that killed and eat on them.  I suspect most likely a pack of stray dowgs . . . but maybe not.

[Bibbyman]

I walked up to the mail box a couple of weeks back.  It's a half mile from our house and sets in front of my parrent's house that is empty at this time.  Something in the tall fescue behind their house caught my eye.  At first I thought it was a really big Redbone hound. But it whirled around and bounded of out of sight in a blink of an eye.  I sware it had a long large tail.  Way too long and full to be that of a hound.  I'm not sure what I saw. Maybe a mountain lion.  Does tend to have and hide out their fawns in that patch of fescue.

Two things have changed. We are seeing far fewer deer and I've not seen any coyotes or heard them.    I normally get pictures of up to 7 coons at one time on my trail cams along with foxes and possums.   I'm getting only one coon at a time the last few times I've changed out memory cared.  There is one doe with a singe fawn that has been on camera and a young buck in velvet.

I'm not sure if it's just some trend or there is really a mountain lion working the area.

[WV Sawmiller]

Bibbyman,

   Thx for gracing us with your presence. Good to hear from you once in a while.

   As to the Mountain lion wiping out coyotes and such I believe I'd rather have the cat than the coyotes. I'm surprised he hasn't shown up on you trail cam. Maybe he will soon and you can post an update with his smiling face. Maybe he will be gnawing on the hind leg of a coyote.

[Carson-saws]

WOW....quite the cat!...I suppose you could draw them out with some treats or call um...."Here kitty kitty kitty"  :

[coxy]

WOW....quite the cat!...I suppose you could draw them out with some treats or call um...."Here kitty kitty kitty"  :

??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

[Bibbyman]

 

 

I did get this kitty cat on my trail cam a couple of months back.  It was right at sunup.

[DelawhereJoe]

If you can trap those fuzz balls you can drop them off in my neck of the woods, a change of animals would be nice, perhaps a black bear or 2. I'd greatly appreciate it.