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Bunched Tree Felling techniques

Started by sprintfan11, March 25, 2009, 10:41:52 AM

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sprintfan11

Hello all, I'm new to the board and new to tree cutting. I bought and installed an outdoor wood furnace (A Central Boiler 5036, love it!) and began cutting my own firewood late last fall. I did my homework and researched the proper cutting techniques and have followed them. However, when it comes to big trees that have grown just inches apart, I'm kind of unsure how to knock them down. The bunch or cluster of trees come out of a large stump and then split off into two, three or four separate trees. Now some may have enough space for me to notch and cut down one of them, but in other instances there isn't enough space. Thanks in advance.
Use up, wear out, make do or do without.

Husqvarna 455 Rancher 20"
1994 GMC 1500 4X4
Central Boiler 5036 OWB
Troy-Built 27 ton splitter
Generac 6500 generator
More stuff to come....

wi woodcutter

sprintfan11 I am looking at a 5036 myself. Have you had any problems with it or anything to look out for? How much are you heating with it and how much wood does it use?
2-066's ms660 034av 076av huskee 27ton splitter CB5036
A guard dog needs food, water, shelter, walking and training.
My Smith & Wesson only needs a little oil!

beenthere

Welcome to the forum, sprintfan11

Clusters can be problematic. Work on your techniques with easier trees, and use those experiences when calculating what you can do and cannot do with the clustered ones.

Sometimes, moving higher up the tree helps. But safety is the key in whatever you do.

I had a large elm, with three "trees" coming out of the stump. Trying to cut the three down together left a dilema as to which way it would want to fall, and a bar a bit too short. So I did some vertical cutting (3-4 ft) to create the "back" of one stem, then an under cut (Swedish), and then a plunge cut to create the hinge.  All turned out well, and felt I was in control of what was taking place at all stages. (some of that elm ended up in the recent woodburning Jeff just finished  ;D )
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

sprintfan11

Quote from: wi woodcutter on March 25, 2009, 11:01:47 AM
sprintfan11 I am looking at a 5036 myself. Have you had any problems with it or anything to look out for? How much are you heating with it and how much wood does it use?
I am heating a two-story house and hot water, I started the stove on 11/18/08 and have used 3 almost 4 cords so far. No real problems so far, it has been a champ. Just follow the maintenace guide and you should be fine.
Use up, wear out, make do or do without.

Husqvarna 455 Rancher 20"
1994 GMC 1500 4X4
Central Boiler 5036 OWB
Troy-Built 27 ton splitter
Generac 6500 generator
More stuff to come....

sprintfan11

Quote from: beenthere on March 25, 2009, 11:15:36 AM

I had a large elm, with three "trees" coming out of the stump. Trying to cut the three down together left a dilema as to which way it would want to fall, and a bar a bit too short. So I did some vertical cutting (3-4 ft) to create the "back" of one stem, then an under cut (Swedish), and then a plunge cut to create the hinge.  All turned out well, and felt I was in control of what was taking place at all stages. (some of that elm ended up in the recent woodburning Jeff just finished  ;D )
Is there any pics, guides or tutorials I can look at for those cuts? I'm a newb, so my logger vocabulary is just notch and back cut. ???
Use up, wear out, make do or do without.

Husqvarna 455 Rancher 20"
1994 GMC 1500 4X4
Central Boiler 5036 OWB
Troy-Built 27 ton splitter
Generac 6500 generator
More stuff to come....

twobears


i,ve cut down truck loads of trees growing like that and i still don,t like doing it.you have to really look things over before you start cutting.first off try to figure out what way each stem wants to go..most of the time they wanta fall in diffrent directions.next look at the stems and see how there growing around eachother.
most of the time one is growing kinda normal with the other ones crowded in and always remember they might be holding eachother together or growing on there own and be free from eachother.
you also need to be sure they don,t have any limbs holding them together.sometimes a limb from one stem with be grown into another stem or a limb will be hooked over another stems limb..it,s no fun to have a tree start to go then hang there by one limb or startto go and you find out the base has grown together inside the seam.
so,with all that being said..stand back look things out really close and make up a plan on how your going to cut them.
take the stem thats growing over the other stems first..notch it then most likely you,l have to plunge cut thur itto start the backcut.as it starts to move watch and see if it,s base is really free from the other tree..you may have to make a cut down thur the seam to free it.
remember thatthe stem may be flat and thin compared to the size of the tree so there may not be much wood in the notch area.
once you get one stem in the bunch down just repeat until there all down.i have let two or more stems go at one time but,if your new don,t try that..it can get really intresting really fast.i only do it if i feel i have no choice..like limbs locked together,ect.
oooo,one thing about trees like that..alot of times they have the nastiest water you,ll ever see hiding between the stems..you start making a cut and the next thing you know your wet and smell like a sewer..lol just so you know!
be careful and if you can get more exp cutting before you try one of those kinda trees.

delbert

tonto

Welcome to the forum Sprintfan11. I too am fairly new to tree cutting. I hooked up with a friend that has cut trees for about 30 years. I have learned a lot from him. Try to find someone with a lot experience and use their knowledge and techniques. Safety is the most valuable tool you can have. I also have a Central Boiler 5036 and love it. I have used about 5 or 6 cords to heat a 1200 sq ft house and hot water in upstate NY since 11-5-08. I am going to try to use it all year, we will see what happens. P.S. You wouldn't happen to be a Denny Hamlin fan, would you. Tonto.
Stihl MS441 & Husqvarna 562XP. CB5036 Polaris Sportsman 700 X2. Don't spend nearly enough time in the woods.

sprintfan11

Quote from: tonto on March 25, 2009, 02:04:50 PM
Welcome to the forum Sprintfan11. I too am fairly new to tree cutting. I hooked up with a friend that has cut trees for about 30 years. I have learned a lot from him. Try to find someone with a lot experience and use their knowledge and techniques. Safety is the most valuable tool you can have. I also have a Central Boiler 5036 and love it. I have used about 5 or 6 cords to heat a 1200 sq ft house and hot water in upstate NY since 11-5-08. I am going to try to use it all year, we will see what happens. P.S. You wouldn't happen to be a Denny Hamlin fan, would you. Tonto.
Thanks Tonto, it cool to know someone in pretty much the same situation. My father-in-law use to cut years ago but hasn't in the past 20-30 years, he did show me how to sharpen my chain. The name is not for Hamlin or nascar, it is for Steve Kinser, one of the greatest sprint car drivers, I'm a dirt tracker, grew up working on my dad's late models.
Use up, wear out, make do or do without.

Husqvarna 455 Rancher 20"
1994 GMC 1500 4X4
Central Boiler 5036 OWB
Troy-Built 27 ton splitter
Generac 6500 generator
More stuff to come....

beenthere

Sprintfan11
There are several here that can give good pics and advice for the GOL methods of felling using the plunge cut for more control of felling. Not that the method you use doesn't work on a large percentage of the trees you/we cut.

Member Kevin (and others) have good graphic pics of the plunge cut.

Will try to scrounge up some of his good graphics.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

tonto

Hey sprintfan11, how did I miss that - Steve Kinser - definitely the best sprint car driver of all time. Not much of Hamlin fan myself. I gave up trying to sharpen my chains, ruined to many, I just take them to be sharpened. My friend lets me cut when he knows it's safe and I can see how the tree reacts. It's like anything else - practice makes perfect. Tonto
Stihl MS441 & Husqvarna 562XP. CB5036 Polaris Sportsman 700 X2. Don't spend nearly enough time in the woods.

rebocardo

Excluding using a climber, sometimes the best way is to get a cable or rope up near the top  and pull it down with a winch or 4x4. Most of the branches grow on the outside of the cluster so it falls easily if it has a lean.

Kevin

You may very well need to pull them apart if the limbs are locked in the top.
Start with the outside of the cluster and put a face in the tree you are falling.
Rip the two apart where they join, bore in setting up the hinge and then cut back to where you ripped the two apart.
Sometimes they fall on their own and sometimes you need to prompt it with a wedge or pull it over with a rope.
Be sure to leave a hinge and don't ever turn your back on these because you never know if or when they'll fall.


singlejacker

sprintfan, I dont know about gol, swedish cuts,and rarely ever use a plunge cut.the lean of the tree,being able to cut strait,understanding the mechanics of the cuts you are using are all a factor.lean is paramount.I would undercut the locked up ones and then find a good drive tree then get them with that.you gotta make sure your drive tree is heavy enough,done committed,and hits right.stay safe,dan.

a old timberjack

sprintfan11.......sounds to me like he is a fan of the king!!....steve kinser that is!!! welcome to the forum my man.
H.T. LOGGING and Trucking, llc, GREENE, Rhode Island

sprintfan11

Quote from: Kevin on March 25, 2009, 05:36:56 PM
You may very well need to pull them apart if the limbs are locked in the top.
Start with the outside of the cluster and put a face in the tree you are falling.
Rip the two apart where they join, bore in setting up the hinge and then cut back to where you ripped the two apart.
Sometimes they fall on their own and sometimes you need to prompt it with a wedge or pull it over with a rope.
Be sure to leave a hinge and don't ever turn your back on these because you never know if or when they'll fall.


Kevin,
    Am I supposed to cut towards the rip through the notch? Just yank the saw back as soon as it starts falling?
Use up, wear out, make do or do without.

Husqvarna 455 Rancher 20"
1994 GMC 1500 4X4
Central Boiler 5036 OWB
Troy-Built 27 ton splitter
Generac 6500 generator
More stuff to come....

beenthere

Umm.., don't do that. :) It will pinch your saw and it will stay there while either the tree falls, or you get another saw to remove it.

Quotebore in setting up the hinge and then cut back to where you ripped the two apart.
Kevin stated in this quote to use the bore-cut procedure to make the hinge right and then finish the cut back to the "rip" vertical cut.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

sprintfan11

Quote from: beenthere on March 26, 2009, 10:53:46 AM
Umm.., don't do that. :) It will pinch your saw and it will stay there while either the tree falls, or you get another saw to remove it.

Quotebore in setting up the hinge and then cut back to where you ripped the two apart.
Kevin stated in this quote to use the bore-cut procedure to make the hinge right and then finish the cut back to the "rip" vertical cut.

Ok, I thought that there would be a problem with getting the saw pinched, I wasn't sure what he meant. I guess I need to look up bore-cut procedure.
Use up, wear out, make do or do without.

Husqvarna 455 Rancher 20"
1994 GMC 1500 4X4
Central Boiler 5036 OWB
Troy-Built 27 ton splitter
Generac 6500 generator
More stuff to come....

ErikC

  Kevin wasn't necessarily talking about the bore cutting technique you'll find looking it up. That involves boring out part of the holding wood through the face before the final cut is started. What he was referring to is there are other stems in the way, and to make the final cut, after facing the trunk, you may have to use the nose of the bar and bore in, then cut back to the verticle cut you made to seperate the stems. Make sure not to remove to much holding wood on accident when boring in, and watch that kickback.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

beenthere

And I wasn't referring to boring into the face (notch) cut either.

Boring into (and behind) the face notch to establish the hinge wood left in place. Then cutting back to the rip cut Kevin referrenced in his drawing.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

sprintfan11

Thanks guys, I think I understand what he meant and how I'm going to cut these down. This forum and it's members is going to be a great place for "good" information. ;D
Use up, wear out, make do or do without.

Husqvarna 455 Rancher 20"
1994 GMC 1500 4X4
Central Boiler 5036 OWB
Troy-Built 27 ton splitter
Generac 6500 generator
More stuff to come....

SamB

A good book for teaching or using as a reference _The Fundamentals of General Tree Work_ by G.F. Beranek, he does a good job of explaining felling methods and hazards to watch for. Also you may find this link helpful;
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/special_techniques/unacceptablepractices.html

Not that you haven't received some good advice already....... :)

thecfarm

Keep your file handy to sharpen your saw.Seems like all the dirt falls in between the trees.I'm claiming back a grown up pasture,I have a lot of these.I have up to 8 in a clump.Most of the trees are not much bigger than 8 inches.But the stumps are 3 feet across.I just cut down one at a time.Like was mentioned,watch the limbs.A Lot of time it's almost like pick up sticks.Than when all the trees are cut off,I attack the stump.I'm lucky if I don't get about half done and have to stop and sharpen the saw.Since I want this back as a field,I cut the stumps down low.This does not help with keeping the chain sharp.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

John Mc

SprintFan -

If you are new to felling, you should check out the "Game of Logging" series of courses. You can find out more at this website: http://www.gameofloggingusa.com  It's the best time and money you'll ever spend if you are looking for an education in safe and efficient felling.

One of their pages has contact info for various training organizations in the US. I see there is one in Pleasantville PA, and one in Endicott, NY that might not be too bad a drive from you.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

sprintfan11

I used the rip, notch and bore cut technique and it worked great! (The new chain helped out as well). Thanks again everyone. ;D
Use up, wear out, make do or do without.

Husqvarna 455 Rancher 20"
1994 GMC 1500 4X4
Central Boiler 5036 OWB
Troy-Built 27 ton splitter
Generac 6500 generator
More stuff to come....

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