Spalted Wood Question

[SwingOak]

When considering milling spalted wood, when is it too late to bother? What I mean is, while wood that is punky and soft is obviously too far gone, what is the point at which it's too soft?

The reason I ask is I've got a Norway Maple log that probably should have been sawn up at least two years ago. I slabbed off one side this afternoon, and while there are a few punky soft spots, there might be more stable wood deeper in. Most of the parts that are marginally bad are slightly more soft than white pine.

So how soft is too soft, and what is a good way to measure it?

[Ironwood]

Waste your time and cut it all, that is the name of the game when cutting for spault. I have about three days of BIG spaulted log milling ahead of me. This is why no commercial mills will touch that market, and why good spault is worth more when found (you have to cover the loses on the 75% of the logs you wasted your time on).  : just my .02.

       Ironwood

[Robert Long]

Ironwood:

Nice chair!  I'd like to see the whole chair if possible, would like to attempt some of that creative wood wooking.

Robert

[Ironwood]

 Photos are not high quality and don't do the piece justice. I did all the iron work as well. This is true wrought iron (very misused term), this is the same iron Colonial Williamsburg and Mount Veron use (we're their offical supplier). All tradtional jointery exposed, collared, riveted, tenoned. 72" tall and 54" wide out of all 1" sq.bar.

[ljmathias]

Is it "spalted" or "spaulted" or both?  Anyway, here's what Wikipedia had to say but what's interesting are the misconceptions often spread about retention of wood strength and toughness (not the same thing):

Types

Spalting is divided into three main types: pigmentation, white rot and zone lines. Spalted wood may exhibit one or all of these types in varying degrees.

Pigmentation

Also known as sapstain, or in its most common form, bluestain, this type of spalting occurs when the darkly-pigmented fungal hyphae grow in the sapwood parenchyma of a tree [1][2]. A visible color change can be seen if enough hyphae are concentrated in an area [3]. These pigmentation fungi often colonize wood via the rays, but are not considered decay fungi due to their non-destructive use of easily available wood carbohydrates [4][5]. The most common groups of pigmentation fungi are the imperfect fungi and the Ascomycetes [5]. Mold fungi, such as Trichoderma spp., are not considered to be spalting fungi, as their hyphae do not colonize the wood internally.

While pigmentation fungi do not degrade the wood cell wall, this type of decay can lead to a reduction in toughness (amount of energy absorbed before breaking), and increased permeability [6]. Pigmentation can occur on both hardwood and softwood, unlike other types of spalting which are more host specific.

[edit] White Rot

The mottled white pockets and bleaching effect seen in spalted wood is due to white rot fungi. Primarily found on hardwoods, these fungi 'bleach' by consuming lignin, which is the slightly pigmented area of a wood cell wall [7]. Some white rotting can also be caused by an effect similar to pigmentation, in which the white hyphae of a fungus, such as Trametes versicolor (Fr.) Pil., is so concentrated in an area that a visual effect is created [8].

Both strength and weight loss occur with white rot decay, causing the 'punky' area often referred to by woodworkers. Brown rots, the 'unpleasing' type of spalting, affect these same properties, but at a much faster rate [3]. Both types of rot, if left uncontrolled, will turn wood useless.

[edit] Zone Lines

Dark dotting, winding lines and thin streaks of red, brown and black are known as zone lines. This type of spalting does not occur due to any specific type of fungus, but is instead an interaction zone in which different fungi have erected barriers to protect their resources [5]. The lines are often clumps of hard, dark mycelium, referred to as pseudosclerotial plate formation [9].

Zone lines themselves do not damage the wood. However, the fungi responsible for creating them often do.

[edit] Conditions

Conditions required for spalting are the same as the conditions required for fungal growth: fixed nitrogen, micronutrients, water, warm temperatures and oxygen [10][3].

Water:

Wood must be saturated to a 20% moisture content or higher for fungal colonization to occur. However wood placed underwater lacks sufficient oxygen, and colonization cannot occur [6].

Temperature:

The majority of fungi prefer warm temperatures between 10 and 40°C [6], with rapid growth occurring between 20 and 32°C. [11]

Oxygen:

Fungi do not require much oxygen, but conditions such as waterlogging will inhibit growth [12] [13].

Time:

Different fungi require different amounts of time to colonize wood. Research conducted on some common spalting fungi found that Trametes versicolor, when paired with Bjerkandera adusta, took 8 weeks to spalt 1.5" cubes of Acer saccharum.[14] Colonization continued to progress after this time period, but the structural integrity of the wood was compromised. The same study also found that Polyporus brumalis, when paired with Trametes versicolor, required 10 weeks to spalt the same size cubes

Lj

[SwingOak]

Very nice Ironwood! As someone who dabbles in blacksmithing, I can say that the one time I had the opportunity to work with true wrought iron, it was a pleasure.

Anyway, so I was poking around the log this morning, and there's less there that is way too soft than I first thought. So I'm gonna saw it up today & see what I get. If I get anything good I'll post some pictures later.

[SwampDonkey]

Spalted yellow birch feet.

[tyb525]

Yes we like pictures Lurch

[nas]

SD
Ya posted that pic upsidedown ;D

[Ironwood]

Lurchman,

Thanks, true wrought in #2-4 refinements are they "workable stuff. Muck bar and #1 are very primitive, common and what most farm implements are made of way back.

On the Spalt. The window from just OK to WOOOOOW is a very narrow one. It is hard to predict where that is.

Ironwood

[JV]

Beautiful work.  I had a customer that had some spalted maple but was going to throw it away when we started sawing.  I explained what it was and he changed his mind.  He thought the markings we done commercially with a dye or ink in spalted wood he had saw advertised.  I'd saw all I could and then sort.

I have a small supply of wrought iron, probably enough to last me no more that I get to blacksmith anymore.  Sure feels different under the hammer but forge welds nice.  My wife thinks I'm overly critical of some of the junk advertised commercially as wrought iron pieces.

[SwingOak]

OK, here's some pics, I managed to get the log squared off into a cant about 13 1/2" wide x 7' long:

Squaring off the log with the mini-mill:





Close up view:





I cut mostly 5/4 boards, here's a "bookmatching" view:





This is the last board, which I left at 10/4 and the ran through the planer. This might just end up as the new mantle for the fireplace I'm restoring in our living room:







So, I ended up with about six good 5/4  boards, and the 10/4 slab. There's some bad spots, but everything is wide enough I should be able to get usable wood out of the rips.

[SwingOak]

Oh, and Lurcher puppies LOVE fresh sawdust! It's so warm and soft and fluffy...

Here's a few of our youngsters laying around in the black walnut leftovers from yesterday's efforts:

[tyb525]

What kind of mill do ya got there? That's nice looking wood.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Clear Epoxy finish should soak in and harden those softer spots. I know there is an epoxy treatment used on wooden boat wheel houses, to harden up rotted wood, instead of replacing the wood.

[Robert Long]

Wow!
Nice work, and I thought it was a chair :-\

Robert

[fishpharmer]

Dang lurcher you even got spalted puppies. :D ;D

[SwingOak]

What kind of mill do ya got there? That's nice looking wood.

I have a Granberg 24" Alaskan mill, and a Granberg Mini-Mill. I've been using my Husky 262 XP with a 24" bar and a full comp Stihl RSC chain cut at 5 degrees. I have a loaner Stihl 084 but it's really just too big for an Alaskan mill this small.

[SwingOak]

Clear Epoxy finish should soak in and harden those softer spots. I know there is an epoxy treatment used on wooden boat wheel houses, to harden up rotted wood, instead of replacing the wood.

Somebody told me about the Abatron stuff the other day, which sounds like what you are talking about:

http://www.abatron.com/cms/buildingandrestorationproducts/woodrestorationmaintenance/liquidwood.html

Anyone ever use it?

[barbender]

spalted puppies :D I was thinking the same thing!

[fishpharmer]

I am glad someone appreciates my humor ;D

[SwingOak]

Dang lurcher you even got spalted puppies. :D ;D

   :D Now that's funny!   :D  ;D

Spalted sounds so much more interesting than brindle! I wonder if that means they'd be worth more?  :

Although with the economy the way it is, it seems we can't even give pups away...

[Ironwood]

Looks VERY nice. Consistency is the real key, many times it will peter out just a few feet inside the end of the log.

Thanks for the compliments.

Ironwood

[SwingOak]

Lurchman,

Thanks, true wrought in #2-4 refinements are they "workable stuff. Muck bar and #1 are very primitive, common and what most farm implements are made of way back.

On the Spalt. The window from just OK to WOOOOOW is a very narrow one. It is hard to predict where that is.

Ironwood

I'm curious - how does the #2-4 wrought compare in price to mild HR steel, like 1018 or similar?

[Ironwood]

Well, the stuff from England (Yorkshire) is above $4 a pound plus shipping. YUP, that's steep (shipping alone is alot). We are well below that ;). It is a narrow market, and quality and consistancy are the key. I have squirrled random wrought iron away for years, all kinds, wagon wheels, sliegh parts, bob runners, bolts, barrel hoops, and basically ANYTHING wrought. I kind-of collect old hand forged tools. I have just about anything imgineable, if it shows a forge weld, I WANT it. The coolest (favorite) are old bark spuds, some of mine show the rolling and forge welding all the way up to the wood handle (looks like it was made from dough).

           IRONwood