First sawing job....advice?

[linrick1]

Hello all, I just got hired to saw a bunch of 5"x5" fenceposts and some 2"x6" planks from nice straight, clean red pine. The logs are between 8' and 16' long and range from around 6" to 16" DIB. The customer is not looking to get every board foot out of his logs, he is more interested getting his posts ands planks quickly. My idea is to seperate and saw all the smaller diam. logs to 5"x5"'s and then cut the larger logs to 2"x6"'s. Any and all advice, input etc. is apprecated, thanks for your time, Rick

[ljmathias]

Is red pine durable enough for fenceposts up your way?  Down here, we'd give 'em about two weeks... and then they would be so full of termites you could cook them for the protein and make soup.  Two months and there's nothing left below ground.  I can't figure out how termites can move so fast underground to new wood that hits the ground or gets put in... they don't seem that fast but within days of something new, there they are!

Anyway, sounds like a fun project- good luck.

Lj

[Bill_G]

You just need to figure what cuts will yield the most out of each log. I don't think your going to get any 5x5 or 2x6 out of a 6" log though. I would think it would also depend on the lengths he needs of each.

[Tom]

Cutting post out of the small logs is a good idea, even if they don't make the 5x5.  Make 4x4 and tell him that was all that was in the tree if that is true.  If they are for the fence posts, and are to be treated, try to make them some kind of standard sizes, not necessarily equivalent to commercial sizes, but something the guy can stack.  I've cut a lot of that kind of stuff and most customers don't even worry about wane as long as they have flat sides to nail a board.

You can get 2x6's from the outside of the big logs as you square them up, the may be a little waney but your customer may not  mind as long as it's not too much.  Keep in mind that you might be better off making the center of the cant be 5x5 to keep heart checks out of the boards. 

A job like this is where it is most valuable to be able to talk to your customer and determine what he considers to be a good job, what he expects from you and what he expects in product; as well as your determining the use of the end product.  He may say "a fence".  But, there are privacy fences, fences around horse pastures that are different than fences around cow pastures and that is different than fences around livestock pens, and that is different than board fences bordering a yard.  Knowing that helps you to make him happy.

[linrick1]

Thanks for the advice guys, the customer is going to bolt all of the posts to galvanized brackets set in concrete in the ground with the wood being several inches above the ground. He is going to use the posts and boards for pig fencing so he's not too concerned with exect sizes. From what I understand he wants to make cants for the 2x6's and he will use the scrap in his outdoor boiler....it must be painfully apparent that I know very little about sawing, I have no problem running the mill, its the proper handling of the logs on the mill that I am going to have to figure out, and quick. My assumption is for the posts I would level the log, make the first cut, turn log 1/4 turn, repeat 'til I have a 5" post. For the boards I would make either 6" or 12" cants and then saw the boards from that...am I even close to how it should be done? Thanks again, Rick

[Tom]

Try these links

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,10733.msg147194.html#msg147194

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,11269.msg155774.html#msg155774

One of the most common questions asked by new sawyers is "how to saw a log" or something along those lines.  There are quite a few posts in the forum on the subject.

[ljmathias]

Just remember to remember what you're doing when you try to cut parallel to the bark (sounds like what you indicated)- nice to square up two sides that way, but way too often I forget I have the toe boards up and end up with the most perfect non-parallogram you ever saw- that gives you some of the most interesting lumber, too, with all the sides shrinking as you cut down the log and about half the boards with some kind of taper in them from turning the cant (which isn't really a cant, I would guess, since they're supposed to be more or less squared up with parallel sides).  I keep trying to figure out some use for these oddly beautiful pieces of dual-taper wood: maybe that's it- a new marketing idea- "dual taper lumber."  Maybe it'll catch on, like "denim pine," hey?

Lj

[Bill_G]

It might be worth your while to spend a little time watching some other people saw, I know I learn better seeing something done than reading about it. Go to some big mills and small mills  and pick peoples brains. Most sawyers will be more than happy to help you learn. Also I don't try to take all the taper on the first slab, but try to get it off equal around. Hope this helps.

[linrick1]

Thanks again everybody...Tom, you sir are a scholar and a gentleman - very helpful links. I would like to go see a mill in action, in fact several members of this board have kindly offered to let me visit them to watch, but I am expected on the job Tuesday a.m. and won't have a chance to go see them. Some may think that I jumped into the deep end of the pool a bit hastily (they'd be right) but I've spent my whole life working on or around machinery/equipment so I'm hoping some of that experience will translate........plus I, like everyone else, really could use the money. Any other help/suggestions appreciated, thanks again, Rick

[tyb525]

Go for it 8) If you make some mistakes (which you probably will make a few) you can only learn from them.

[ljmathias]

Be nice to have a class of some kind for novice (and not so novice) sawyers.  Maybe a weekend event or just part of a day?  I learn best (meaning just about only) by hands on and watching first hand- reading helps but for me it's like learning to ride a bike: you can read all you want, watch movies or friends, but none of that will help in the least.  You have to actually get your body on the bike and feel how gravity wants to pull you down and if you turn the bike one way it saves you from falling but the other way (the intuitive one) you eat dirt.  Sawing for me is similar, less dangerous in some ways but with more chance of really, really bad outcome in others.  Was talking to Woodmizer Bob while we were working on my mill yesterday about the warning sign on part of the mill: Danger! Sawblade can cut!  Well, duh!  I thought that was the whole point?

Back to topic: how about a class taught by experts?  I'd be happy to volunteer my place but maybe a Woodmizer shop would give more options for hands-on with the saw you actually have or want to buy?  What could be a better selling point than getting someone to actually make sawdust, breath it in, and see/feel the lumber as it comes off the mill?  Had I done that years ago, I'd have bought one way back... when dinosaurs walked the earth and men were men (or cavemen, whatever).

Lj

[beav39]

seems like you got the basics down     what  your sawing doesnt really need to be perfect,looks like an excellent project to start out with

[bandmiller2]

Lj,not to worry sounds like a good job to get your feet wet,its 95%common sense.[5%BS]Frank C.

[Cedarman]

Once your confidence builds, that is when you will start feeling comfortable.  And that is the time to be the most careful of mistakes. 

As you saw each log, keep track of the actual diameter and what you got out of it.  Make a chart.  Then after you have sawn many sizes of logs, you will know what you should expect from each log.  This will help late in the day when your mind is tiring and your bones are feeling limpish.    If it measures 11" then this is the pattern that worked last time.

Tom's converstation is something that a miller should do before every sawing job.  This is what I do for every customer, expecially those that won't see the wood until they open the box.  You have to learn what is in their mind's eye.

Good luck on the job.  Let us know how it is going.  Happy sawing.

[linrick1]

Hey all, quick update on our progress. Couldn't have gotten a better first customer, real good guy, had some trouble getting the setworks to co-operate and the bed needed some adjusting but we got it figured out (I hope) this afternoon. Cranked out  a mess of nice lumber just the way we wanted it so should be all set to go tomorrow. Again, any and all input/suggestions appreciated, thanks, Rick