iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

New logging venture

Started by Maineloggerkid, March 09, 2009, 08:53:50 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Maineloggerkid

 Hey guys and gals, I got a question. I know this has probably been done before, so bare with me.

Due to the current market storm, I am on hiatus from logging, working in a Scotts mulch factory. I am looking for ways to get back into logging in the spring, and  want to try something a little different. Pulp and stud wood are in the toilet, but I have a log buyer that pays almost 2 times the usual market value for good stuff, all species. I was thinking about getting into cutting prime logs for this guy, and buying a small mill ( chiansaw, or cheap band) and cutting the lower grade stuff myself if I can find a buyer. There are a lot of little wood product stores around, so I might hit them up. A well as custom sawing for some people. I have actually had people tell me that I should buy a mill, because they want lumber sawed out. I know Some about milling, because my uncle used to have a band mill and edger before he died. Ther is also a guy locally how might, MIGHT let me  use his automated mill setup.

So do you guys think that there is a hope for the venture, if a can track the wood down.
(which I have already started testing the water on)
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

bull

Go for it !! buy a WM LT 15 and get start with short money !!! High end logs are the only money maker at the mill anyway !! The rest is volume and adds up to cover the trucking and to keep the hired help busy at the mill.. Send fewer loads of the best and mill up all the log grade yourself, stock pile it if you have to, it will sell..... Barn board 2xs and beam stock !!!! Its amazing how much ugly wood you can sell !!

*" Yuppies build camps and sheds on cheap land in Maine""* We will be in that cycle again soon enough!! It can be a pretty good market, also all your slab can be sold for campfire wood - "The low end *(cheap)* stuff " market is going to be where you will recover your money !!  The high end stuff will be the gravy....

Maineloggerkid

I am seriously looking into that LT15. A guy that lives about a mile away has a fully push-button mill under a roof, so I am gonna get ahlod of him.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

ErikC

Quote from: bull on March 09, 2009, 09:31:03 AM
*" Yuppies build camps and sheds on cheap land in Maine""* We will be in that cycle again soon enough!! It can be a pretty good market, also all your slab can be sold for campfire wood - "The low end *(cheap)* stuff " market is going to be where you will recover your money !!  The high end stuff will be the gravy....

This kind of thing keeps me pretty busy in N CA also. People buy a little chunk of forest and want a vacation spot, or seasonal camp. They really get into the concept of one guy coming in there, cutting some of their trees up and building something. Most of those type jobs have been pretty fun for me too. If that will happen around there, I'd try and get some of that work.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

Ironwood

Certainly would beat logging in this market. Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Maineloggerkid

^^^^ Well, this way I can have the best of both worlds. Cut some wood, and get a higher price for it because it will be a product.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

bull

I have a garden club program tonight.
Topic: What to do with storm damaged trees and cleanup etc.....
I have a display of garden sheds I have built out of storm damage salvage and hope to sell a few projects, and maybe some custom sawing...

I have about 3000 bfd of wide pine recovered from storm damaged trees *(Topless Pine)* its eco friendly ;) !!

Bring on the yuppies and tree huggers, people who have feelings for thier trees and want something to remeber them from.. an Oak bench, a maple pergola, a cedar post and rail fence, some spruce lattice, the list goes on and on.... Show me the money...

mad dog

I got a lt-15 your welcome to come look at .
mad dog 78 acres,pasqualli tractor,L-15 woodmiser

Maineloggerkid

ON one of my days of I might take you up on that. Thanks 8)
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

SwampDonkey

A guy has to explore all his options.  ;D Where I live however isn't cottage country because there aren't many lakes nearby. In other regions though there are more lakes, but tend to be more remote and traditionally they build camps from round timbers mostly. But quite a few milled lumber for camps the last 25 years I've noticed. All the river camps manned by fisheries wardens or for visiting anglers with Crown Reserve licenses are round timbers, but are more than 25 years old. I am reminded of a  story of a neighbor and his wife my grandfather told me about.

The wife wanted new cupboards, so she got to thinking. If I get a cow or two, a cream separator, a churn and butter bowl, I could make and sell butter enough to buy the wood to build the cupboards. The brother-in-law comes along and hears the plan and told here to just go and get the wood and have the cupboards built from the money it would take to get set up in the butter business.  ::)

The moral is, if your going to invest in this venture, make it work instead of making it an expensive hobby.  ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Corley5

You might want to consider selling the veneer logs, sawing the top grades of sawlogs yourself and moving the lower grade as tie logs, pallet logs or firewood.  Low grade logs processed into firewood bring more than the logs at the mill.  Around here anyway. 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

cheyenne

I've always admired your thinking and planing for the future. Keep up the good work. There's a ton of mills out there dirt cheap......Cheyenne
Home of the white buffalo

tyb525

I'm trying to do the same thing on a small scale, using trees from my woods. I have an LT10, but if you're really wanting to produce alot I'd get an LT15 at least.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Maineloggerkid

I was hoping you'd weigh in, tyb.  I plan to find lots or wind damage to get my trees from. Also the local D.O.T.   In slow times, I have 210 acres of woods to go get logs off.

Firewood is booming around here, but I don't own enoguh of just hardwood to devote completely to that business. Plus, we heat with wood, so I use most of the firewood trees on my lot personally.

I have been looking seriously at the LT 15, but as mentioned above, I might try to gain use of that other guys mill, until I find out wether this will fly. That way I don't go in the hole if it doesn't.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

Ironwood

MLKid

"There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen."- Wayne Dyer

If there is one thing I could hope for my three young boys, it is too find a passion and persue it. You MLK seem to have found a passion for the outdoors, logging, and being in and around the woods. I have worked many jobs over my brief 40 some years, and as my one friend says " you will work for nearly 3/4 of your life (time wise) you might as well do something you love".

More later, two of my little guys just got up, and need attention


        Good for you!  Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

chep

Mainelogger, I am not trying to ruffle feathers, but I have a serious question. I am graduating from forestry school in a few months, I may end up logging, I may end up doing tree work, I may end up overseas. Who knows... If every logger stops logging, and every mill stops milling and every trucks tops trucking, then what happens to the forest industries? From my viewpoint they die, or are they already dead. The northeastern forest is a crucial part of the northeastern community and economy. Where are all these jobs going? Are they just disapearing.

chep

 Sorry I wasnt done...

Is logger diversification the key to survival (your firewood, veneer selling,bandsawmilling etc) is that going to save the industry?
I know that you are just trying to survive, but if every logger does what you are doing then there is no chance of survival... please tell me otherwise

chep

Maine logger, I am not coming down on you, but your subject prompted my thinking. I obviously wish you the best of luck in whatever your endeavor!

Sincerely
chep

dsgsr

Quote from: chep on March 11, 2009, 01:47:54 PM
Sorry I wasnt done...

Is logger diversification the key to survival (your firewood, veneer selling,bandsawmilling etc) is that going to save the industry?
I know that you are just trying to survive, but if every logger does what you are doing then there is no chance of survival... please tell me otherwise



Chep, logger diversification. What MLK is doing is the future for loggers, many will not make it but just cutting wood of the stump and taking it to the yard is not a money maker anymore. The smart loggers are getting involved in all aspects of the wood industry.

David
Northlander band mill
Kubota M59 TLB
Takeuchi TB175 Excavator
'08 Ford 550 dump
'87 International Dump
2015 Miller 325 Trailblazer Welder/Gen

bull

Im with David, diversification is the only way to survive,in any agricultural pursuit. especially in New England !!

wi woodcutter

I agree the 'loggerkid is thinking correctly. Diversification is the only way you will make it. Keep the over head as low as you can.
2-066's ms660 034av 076av huskee 27ton splitter CB5036
A guard dog needs food, water, shelter, walking and training.
My Smith & Wesson only needs a little oil!

Maineloggerkid

I appreciate all the feedback! 

Diversifying is the only way one can survive in the Maine market anymore. I wood rather just cut studwood year round, but it aint gonna happen anymore. I have heard they are projecting Poplar prices as low as $30 per cord by fall. Thats about 270 a truck load. It costs $250-300 to truck it.   I'll let you do the math.

Big companies are shutting down, mills are shutting down left and right, the little guy can't afford to run anymore--- things aren't good boys.

If this pans out, I have a tractor set up for logging, I am gonna biuld a small crane and stakes for my trailer, and get a small mill. I can still market some of the more valuable logs, and haul them myself, virtually eliminating trucking cost, except for fuel.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

Maineloggerkid

Ironwood, Thanks for the moral boost. I am getting pretty crazy being out of the woods right now.

Chep- It really isn't that I am chainging. It is that the whole logging industry is, we just have to follow. Logging is an evolving artform and goes through stages. We used axes first, then chiansaws, then mechainical harvesting came along, followed by chip wood markets, along came exporting wood, and now we entering the next phase. I am not sure what it is yet, and I don't think that anyone really does. We just have to go with the flow. We're loggers, that what we do- adapt.

The bottom line for me is this... I love the woods and I love working in the woods. I am going to do what ever it takes to stay in it. Period.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

Ironwood

This is no normal cyclical down turn (many others I am sure will chime in on that). As I look around we are losing capacity in the furniture industy just like we have in heavy industries for decades. For every roughing line that is sold off at auction, it represents one less VOLUME customer for the forest "Industry". Combine that with the enviromental push away from wooden pallets and blocking (thanks invasives like EAB, and many others over the last century, and ISO ratings driving reuse of pallets). Yes, there will be demand in the future, but not like in the past. What we will see (IMHO) is an industry shift to smallish/ medium sized businesses focusing on localized markets. Yes, there will be other national markets for certain things but the model should (should) benefit smallish operators. High dollar logs will always find an overseas home. Eventually, we will see a return to high fuel prices and that will put pressure on moving too much too far. Highly leveraged operators are falling like flies in the "barn", so the ones surviving this should be in good shape. I am sure in time (a few years) that this will benefit many medium sized folks here. Smaller operators will be much more reponsive to market needs and will adapt to accommodate demand that develops. In this type market, networks and relationships will be critical to get "just in time" products to processors and markets. Like the story about the RxR ties Bibby cuts, his focus on the customers need for GOOD ties, not just ties, wil put him in good stead. Businesses will need many people like that, ones they can depend on DELIVERING good product on time and on price. Combine that w/ future high fuel cost and that is a receipe for success.


This will be an intersting time (good time to be in business school and evaluate all this)

         Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

timberfaller390

Diversification is the only way to survive. I went ahead and bought my mill last summer. Maine you can't go wrong with a mill cause even if sawmilling for a living don't pan out then at least you never have to buy another board again. As I have said in other posts there will be no logging industry here in my neck of the woods in a couple of years except guys with a single axle truck hauling to what few local hardwood mills we have left. It'll go back to the way things were around here 60 years ago, before there was any thing as  "pine plantations" around here. They cut and burned alot of good timber just to plant a bunch of scrubby looking pines that were good only for pulpwood. Some of them may have a skidder but I look to start seeing mostly farm tractors and I think horses will come back around here and since my main living is shoeing horses that's fine with me.
L.M. Reese Co. Land Management Contractors
Stihl MS390
John Deere 50G excavator
John Deere 5103
John Deere 440 ICD dozer

Thank You Sponsors!