Building with spruce

jpickering4468 · March 06, 2009, 06:58:33 AM

I have yet to start, but I have a mill on the way and the trees that I have to work with are red spruce. I know it's not the ideal wood to use for timber framing, but it's what I've got so, do any of you have experience working with it? Any tips for the new guy? Thanks Jason

Jim_Rogers · March 06, 2009, 07:43:06 AM

Jason:
I think the spruce in my area is white spruce, and that's the only stuff I have worked with.

I have found that the timbers can twist if not stored properly, and sometimes they twist even if stored properly....

You may need to mill oversize and then trim back later....

Jim Rogers

SwampDonkey · March 06, 2009, 07:57:18 AM

Been lots of old barns made from it up here. ;D Usually the cement foundations fail long before the wood. :

Raphael · March 07, 2009, 03:09:08 AM

Spruce is light, strong and a little bouncy (which I like).
But as Jim said it can move after milling, in my frame it affected my 5x7 stock more than the larger sticks.
Fortunately they were for the rafters which got tapered so I had that one fresh (untwisted) rip to work from.

moonhill · March 07, 2009, 05:03:24 AM

Same here, Raphael. Spruce, I love it and I hate it. If it is what is available you must use it.

Tim

jpickering4468 · March 08, 2009, 08:43:15 AM

Thanks for the good advice guys. Yup spruce is what is on the land so spruce is what we'll use. Tim(moonhill) if you don't mind me asking, where are you at? I live in the Cranberry Isles off of Mount Desert Island.

moonhill · March 09, 2009, 07:06:02 AM

Jason, Map 26, The Maine Atlas and Gazetteer. You need to ferry to the big island. That must make life interesting. What are you getting for a mill? Does the spruce have lots of knots or are they reasonable. How about tapper, are they shaped like carrots? Trees growing close the the water are often stunted. I have been to a few of the larger islands and the wood was reasonable. I have heard a lot of the islands were cut off and use as sheep pasture. My guess is the trees are around 70-80 years old now. Have you counted the rings?

Tim

jpickering4468 · March 10, 2009, 07:20:05 AM

Tim,
Having to barge out does add a level of complication and cost, I guess that's another reason to buy or produce local lumber. This island has been a year round community for a couple hundred years and in the last century the land went from being mostly pasture to almost all spruce. In the Sixties a hurricane came through and knocked over almost all of the spruce. (My father was a logger and thats how he came to the island).
So to answer your question Tim, the trees are ranging from 50 to 100 years- more 50 than 100. There are a lot of nice trunks around but I can't get my saw into all of them. They are mostly owned privately but many people have given me their trees when they heard about my project.

The Mill- I wanted to go with a Maine built mill because I like to buy local. I was looking into a Thomas and was going to buy one when I came across another company in the Uncle Henry's classifieds. It's a small company called Northlander out of Machias port and they build one rugged mill! For a small manual mill this was built the best for the money. 1/4" c- channel track, 8" I-beam log bunks, 2 1/2" square tube-four post head, good blade guides, a heavy duty axle and tow package, and a 34"*16'6" capacity. All for under five thousand.

moonhill · March 11, 2009, 06:52:20 AM

Jason, I haven't heard of that mill, and Maine built. You mentioned Machias port, that isn't the Machiasport, right here next to Machias? Have you done any timber framing in the past?

Tim

SwampDonkey · March 11, 2009, 07:23:01 AM

I've heard of the Thomas mill before on the forum.

Here is their web: Dale A. Thomas and Sons, Inc.

http://www.thomasbandsawmills.com

theCfarm has a manual he said in the Iron Inventory thread. And I think Mooseherder mentioned he has one or family member has one in northern Maine.

thecfarm · March 11, 2009, 07:39:03 AM

jpickering.I would like to see a website on Northland too. I did a goggle, but could not found nothing on sawmill. Maybe they will be at the Bangor Expo.
I have a 20 foot manual mill and really like it. I would suggest getting one to cut 20 foot logs. I did not know this when I got mine. But a 16 footer goes much easier on a 20 foot track than a 16 foot track. Ever try to move a 16 footer a few inches with no hyd? With a 20 foot track you have 4 feet to play with, with a 16 foot log, that's only a few inches. When you roll the log on a 16 foot track it has to be just about right. A 20 foot track it does not matter. While worth the extra dollars that it will cost. I think it's been said on here before, spruce requires a different hook on the blade. I sawed one log once. Worst job I ever did. :-[

moonhill · March 11, 2009, 06:50:20 PM

I tried as well with no results. If the track is simple enough you can add on. That is how I did mine. Some are not so simple.

Tim

jpickering4468 · March 12, 2009, 08:41:42 PM

Northlander is a small husband and wife team and they don't have a website, but they also build custom boat trailers and that might lead you in the right direction. Yes, they are right next to Machias. I will consider the track extension, so far I have been planning the frame around what I can cut but that isn't really practical. And yes this is my first timber frame project, I have been in the trades for a long time, Boat building, finish carp, framing, and logging but am new to this.

ErikC · March 12, 2009, 09:05:09 PM

Quote from: thecfarm on March 11, 2009, 07:39:03 AM
jpickering.I would like to see a website on Northland too. I did a goggle, but could not found nothing on sawmill. Maybe they will be at the Bangor Expo.
I have a 20 foot manual mill and really like it. I would suggest getting one to cut 20 foot logs. I did not know this when I got mine. But a 16 footer goes much easier on a 20 foot track than a 16 foot track. Ever try to move a 16 footer a few inches with no hyd? With a 20 foot track you have 4 feet to play with, with a 16 foot log, that's only a few inches. When you roll the log on a 16 foot track it has to be just about right. A 20 foot track it does not matter. While worth the extra dollars that it will cost. I think it's been said on here before, spruce requires a different hook on the blade. I sawed one log once. Worst job I ever did. :-[

When I added on the tracks for my peterson, I found the same benefit. Logs roll pretty easy, but side to side is a killer.

slowzuki · March 30, 2009, 02:38:09 PM

I built with spruce in much of my place. About 2/3 twisted to some degree, but the ones I put up wet that were well anchored stayed quite straight.

One I didn't anchor well was sort of an aesthetic element in a wall, it developed a 90 degree twist along the 16 ft length and ruined my wall. I had to cut it into short pieces, then cut the nails with a sawzall, then pound the pieces out with a sledge. After repairing the wall I slid a fir replacement that was slightly undersized into place.

SwampDonkey · March 30, 2009, 04:32:14 PM

If you build with spruce that is open grown and lots of knots I can see there being a problem. I have seen some local portables in pasture sawing spruce with 30 % knots in the boards. :

We built from spruce from the farm grown in forest condition and had no twist. Built a 70 foot by 50 foot packing shed. Dad said it was all number #1. ;) She went up green.

slowzuki · July 16, 2009, 04:22:57 PM

The piece of spruce that I had twist was nearly knot free from the woods. Much of the knotty stuff from field edges has actually been fine. Strange I know.

beenthere · July 16, 2009, 04:50:15 PM

Not strange, but in clear wood the grain can have an angle to it that is not visible to the eye.

Referred to as 'cross grain'. Laid down in the wood when it is formed in the tree as it grows.

SwampDonkey · July 16, 2009, 05:33:47 PM

Yeah, cross grain can be from crook, sweep or knots as well as spiraling. A tree can spiral one direction in it's start in life, then change direction when it gets old. I think they separate cross grain from spiral grain in their definition, because not all cross grain is due to spiraling.

slowzuki · July 30, 2009, 01:43:17 PM

A lot of my fir beams had spiral grain. Easy to spot the diagonal checking when drying.

northernss454 · September 06, 2009, 10:30:10 AM

I was warned about spruce also, I used it to build log cabin been 2 years still looks good, one lefty twisted, I would used them, something satisfying about using local logs. Just my 2 cents, I would like to know how it works out for you as I have a pile of timber (spruce) I want to cut into squares and make a logs house but only using 6x12.