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Help Quoting Job involving cutting and drying

Started by campy, March 05, 2009, 07:50:13 PM

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campy

Greetings !!!

I have a prospective customer with about 20 logs.

Average length 8 foot
Average diameter 19 inches.
Species are Oak, Walnut, Bowdock and Cedar.

They want it cut and kiln dried.

My solar kiln is just finishing being built and it has a wood stove near it from where I can pipe in hot dry air.
I have never dried like this before.  In the past I have always air dried.
I do plan on funning a couple of box fans to circulate and change out the humid air.
Any advice on drying like this would be appreciated.

How much should I charge per board foot to cut and dry.

Dan_Shade

here is how I determine what to charge in a job like this:

transportation to the jobsite (or hauling cost to get logs to your location)

scale out logs and charge accordingly to your rate (add a helper if you need to do so)

hauling boards to your kiln

stickering lumber (do not sticker lumber and transport it on a trailer, move the lumber dead stacked to avoid surface checking)

drying fees

board delivery

Also, it's a good idea to get some sort of clause so that you're not stuck with dried lumber that needs to be picked up or delivered by the guy, having a few thousand board feet sitting around waiting to be picked up can be a huge hassle.

What is your kiln capacity and how long will it take to dry it? 

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

campy

My kiln is 16 feet by 10 feet and 10 feet tall.

How much should I charge to dry wood per board foot?
The kiln is next to the saw mill so that is easy.
The logs will be dropped off and boards picked up so no work there.

Dan_Shade

you should try to figure out what it cost you to dry, and how much profit you want to make?  if somebody tells you to charge 0.40 and it actually costs you 0.45, you'll be loosing money and won't know it.

factor in how much capital you have invested into your kiln, and how long you expect it to last.  you also need to figure out how many loads you will be able to realistically run through the kiln in that time period.  toss in your profit margin, and that will sort of give you a starting spot for what you should charge.  don't forget operating costs and incidentals too.

the farther you can break down what your specific costs are, the better idea you'll have about your charging.

I've spent a lot of time digging through and thinking about my sawing costs.  If it were easy, everybody would be doing it!
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

beenthere

campy
From what I read into what you posted, you are going to try out a new kiln, with a new setup for introducing hot or warm dry air, and do this with someone else's wood, that includes oak.  Is that right? Mixed species in one kiln load, or separated by species in more than one load?  All 4/4 lumber, or different thickness's?

Oak is a fussy wood to dry. And when it is above fiber saturation point (say 28% mc), humid warm air might be what is needed. Don't want to sidetrack your plan, but sounds like you are setting yourself up for a problem.

What will your customer say if the oak is destroyed in the dryer? As long as he understands it is a bit on the experimental side, maybe all will be ok. But will you have to pay him if it doesn't work?

Just my thoughts. And I may be missing something here.  ::)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

campy

We are cutting to 5/4 or 1 1/4 inches.

I have been air drying oak with great success.

The oak here is quite stable for the most part.

Yes, it is somewhat experimental and that is a concern.
I will have to tell the customer about the new kiln etc.

It is a solar kiln so there are no costs for the sunshine.

The kiln was cheap to build and took about 10 hours labor.


metalspinner

I have not had success with green lumber in my solar kiln.  Good air dryed stock is simple and almost impossible to screw up.  With air dryed material, I can only dry two loads a year... if I start the first about right now. The second load usually goes in about July or August.  What kind of expectation  do you have on a time frame?  If you plan on doing more drying, several more solar kilns might be in your future.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Kelvin

Howdy,
I'm with the poster who mentioned the problems of drying without knowing the performance yet.  Drying from green is tricky as most damage occurs from wet to 40%MC  Solar is pretty kind to wood, but depending on where you are located could still wreck the lumber if not watched closely.  In my Nyle kiln green lumber takes about 1 month to dry.  with red oak they say not to remove more than 2.5%MC per 24 hr period.  If you can monitor and control this you should be okay.

I would try talk the guy into air drying for as many months as he can wait, and then solar dry for best success.  Adding dry heat from wood stove makes things more complicated.  Kilns aren't just dryers but closed boxes that maintain humidity at specified levels.  Quite high in most cases.  If you aren't careful the oak could have problems.

As far as costs i charge $.35 for wood i've sawn that is air dried and $.50 for wood i've sawn that is green.  But you do need to take into account who is stacking, moving and handling the lumber.  I'd try sell them planing as well to get $.25 more a bd ft.  So for me... sawing $.35-$.50 a bd ft depending on style of cut, $.35-$.50 for drying and $.25 for milling, straightlining back on the mill.  This is pretty basic for small guys.  Careful of your kiln.  I burned my solar kilns down with my wood burner add on.  I plan to rebuild them someday, but when the temps are high... 180 and the lumber is bone dry, you could cause a fire by rubbing the lumber too hard!  Ha, well close.

Good luck and have fun.  I also change my prices based on how much work i have and whether i want to deal with the customer and if they are likely to provide more work in the future or pass my name along.
KP

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