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We are a sorry bunch

Started by Tom, March 03, 2009, 09:28:57 PM

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Tom

Y'all excuse me and allow me a moment of interpretation.

I'm just as American as the next fellow, I think, but lately I'm beginning to wonder if my pride isn't getting in the way of the rest of America condemning itself.  Just listening to the comments is enough to cause me doubts as to the worth of my being a American Citizen.

I realized it, mostly, when this TV show started and I heard nothing but how sorry the loggers were.  The loggers are sorry, the TV producers are sorry and OSHA is the salvation that is going to set us all straight.

It doesn't stop with that. Now the automobiles are no good, the American worker can't produce a piece of equipment that is worth the money that they ask for it and the only good comes from off-shore, another countries' management and tooling. 

The president is no good, the congress is not good, the senate is not good, the dollar is no good.  There is talk of concentration camps all over the USA for the purpose of incarcerating the public when the great socialist empire is forced upon us. 

American chainsaws are no good, the school system is no good, the constitution is out-dated.  Weapons must be taken from the hands of the citizen because he is too stupid to keep from hurting himself.  The American worker is lazy and is being replaced by illegal aliens because he won't do the work that is available.

Armed guards are in the schools to keep down the uprisings, The National Guard is off fighting a war instead of holding the hands of natural disaster victims, The Army, Marine Corps and Air Force are off fighting wars that are deemed to be useless and to top it off, we, the American people, are criminals for being involved in a war on foreign land. (Attacks on the USA have been justified because we are such bad people that we deserve it.

I could go on and on, but I won't.

I'm almost ashamed to say that I'm an American.

CLL

Sorry Tom didn't mean to offend. I'm proud to be an American and carry a body full of shrapnel to prove it, just like many others of my generation. The only point I was trying to make was why the big automakers didn't see what was coming years ago. I buy American all I can, and support the boys overseas. Lets face it 95 % of the people are good people, sometimes the 5% just get in the way.
Too much work-not enough pay.

PineNut

The 5% make all the noise. The problem is that too many of the other 95% listen to them and accept what they say as being the right thing to do.


rebocardo

> was why the big automakers didn't see what was coming years ago

Going to PM you on that one.

Mike_Barcaskey

I think the 5% is more like 50%
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

Warbird

Quote from: Mike_Barcaskey on March 04, 2009, 02:40:00 AM
I think the 5% is more like 50%

I disagree.  It is more like 15 - 20%, IMHO.

jdtuttle

From sea to shining sea
PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN
Yep, I'm shouting from the mountain tops ;D
Have a great day

SwampDonkey

Nobody can here ya up there though, better to be town crier. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Cedarman

Just turn off the TV's and you folks will be alright. 
I just returned from a timber industry meeting last night with the US forest service giving a tour and a talk at the dinner.  We are going to be cutting a lot of pine in Indiana.  Those non native red pine are mature for their site and they all gotta go.  There will be logging continuing in the Hoosier National Forest.  Our committee cochair gave a little pep talk admitting things weren't good, but keep the faith, do what you can and get to the other side. Work together, help each other out.  There was no gloom and doom.  Talked to a head honcho at Norstam Veeners which had a major fire a couple years ago.  They are about back to producing for themselves.  Several competitors had stepped up to the plate and veenered Norstams logs so that Norstam could keep supplying their customers until Norstam got back in production.
We've got some good people in So Indiana.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Mike_Barcaskey

Quote from: Warbird on March 04, 2009, 02:47:32 AM
Quote from: Mike_Barcaskey on March 04, 2009, 02:40:00 AM
I think the 5% is more like 50%

I disagree.  It is more like 15 - 20%, IMHO.

maybe in Alaska, but the 100% in NYC, LA and SanFran more than swing the total to 50%
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

LeeB

When you stop benig proud of who we are and wher ewe live, go someplace else for a little while. You'll soon change your mind and decide we really do live in the best place in the world.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Tom Sawyer

I thought it was just us Canadians who apologize all the time.   ;D

Sorry that you're feeling badly ::)

Dan_Shade

the argument about going somewhere else so you quit complaining is a horrible argument.

just because something else is bad, doesn't make another thing good.  Good and bad stand on their own merits.  There are a lot of things that can be improved in this country.

I think the apathy that goes with those things is where a lot of positive and forward looking people get frustrated.  Apathy gets you nowhere other than depressed.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Fla._Deadheader


For what it's worth, I used to really enjoy the friendship on the FF. Slowly, it turned into nit-picking, and it caused me to become a negative person. Had a bad attitude.

  I stopped posting for a good while. Probably some were happy to see that.  ::) ::)

  Anyway, I started to think about what I was saying, and, am now trying to get on the positive side of life.

  I have frustrations, as many do. Some folks are near perfect. The downturn of economics has caused most to get in the same rut I drifted into.

  Seems that the "NEW" thing is, downgrade and ridicule all that is around you. Trust me, it doesn't work. If you have a GOOD outlook, you can see opportunities all around.

  I recently had a bad experience with a "so-called" friend, that came close to causing me to lose respect with the people here I call friends. It took me a long time to show them I was honest and trustworthy, and my word is good.

  I am now embarking on a new phase of life, that MAY help a LOT of people, here.

  I'm making this longer than I wanted, but, the point is, if you only have negative things to say, please say them to your mirror, and listen to the words.

  Buck up, and ENJOY life, as tough as it may be.  8) ;D ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Gary_C

Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on March 04, 2009, 09:50:19 AM

Buck up, and ENJOY life, as tough as it may be.  8) ;D ;D ;D

Very good words.  8)

I should respond more to this, but I don't have time and need to get to work. But maybe that is enough answer, I just don't have time for all this negative thinking.  :)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Tom Sawyer

Quote from: Dan_Shade on March 04, 2009, 09:20:00 AM
the argument about going somewhere else so you quit complaining is a horrible argument.

just because something else is bad, doesn't make another thing good.  Good and bad stand on their own merits.  There are a lot of things that can be improved in this country.

Actually Dan, from my own experience I would say that going somewhere else, while it doesn't make your own situation better, gives you a different perspective on your own situation which often will help you to feel better about it.  When you feel better about a bad situation you are more motivated to do something to change it.  So I think that is actually pretty good advice.

Tom

MrMoo

I am proud to be an American. People who complain and do not have anything to offer but complaints are just that, complainers and they should not be paid attention to.

Warbird

Seeing how other people live, even in other countries, can be a very good "eye opener".  IMO, a lot of Americans are just plain spoiled.  A lot of folks have lost sight of reality and don't know how good they have it.  Ask any military folks who've spent time in Iraq, Afghanistan, or even places in Europe.

I have a story to share that directly pertains to this.  As some of you know, the Mrs and I got taken advantage of pretty badly when we bought our current home.  It has been 5 years of extreme challenges but things have been coming together.  During that 5 years, I was overwhelmed and got completely burnt out.  Sometimes it still hits me, as the "house to-do list" is still very long.  When it hits, I get to feeling down, I get grumpy, and wonder why life can't be easier.  You know, the whole "why me" bit.

This last weekend, a friend asked me to come out and plow at his little cabin.  He has a wife, 3 kids, and 1 more on the way.  He has an old car and a suburban.  They hadn't plowed or shoveled their rough driveway the entire winter and the last snow we had was too much.  I went out and did what I could for them (literally beat the hell outta my poor truck).  They had us in for dinner to thank us.

Their cabin is maybe 700 sq ft, is pretty far out of town, they have no running water, it is filthy inside as he's been doing some work to the place, and all in all, it is simply rough living.  I used to live like that, as a kid, and let me tell you...  it was a real eye opener.  Helped me remember some things I hadn't thought about in a long time.  Once we got back home, I asked my wife if she thought it was bad that I felt better about our home and felt more blessed because of what we had seen there.

After discussing it, we believe there is nothing wrong with feeling happier about your own situation once you've become aware of someone else's situation.  It just depends on where your heart is and what your motivations are.

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: Cedarman on March 04, 2009, 07:42:26 AM
Just turn off the TV's and you folks will be alright.

Hear, hear!  I don't have a TV, so the only time I get to find out what a sorry condition we're in is on the Forestry Forum.  Fortunately, I can usually identify those topics by the title and skip over them ;D.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

pigman

Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on March 04, 2009, 09:50:19 AM

. Some folks are near perfect.


Well, thank you Harold, I didn't know you noticed. ;) ;D

Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

rbhunter

I think many people including me at times have not learned to be content with what we have. We always want something else. It is the next thing that is going to bring happiness. We have so much. It is the job of advertising to make sure we are not content with what we have. When I look at what people had 50 years ago or more it does not compare with what we have today, but people were happier back then. They learned how to be content with what they had.

America is a great country with great people. Our ancestors figured out how to make things work when things go tough.

A couple of years ago I went through a tough time in my marriage. I was talking to my older sister who is unbelievable. (Single mom, works full time , raised two boys, went through chemo with out letting family know so as not to worry parents. Her oldest boy is through college without owing a dime on football, and accademic scholarships and the other is in college now. He was accepted to a military school that only like one or two kids in his home state get accepted to a year.) She told me what she does is before going to bed at night she thinks up three things from the day to be thankful for and writes them down and gives God thanks for them. You cannot use the same things over. She said she learned she has a lot to be thankful for.

Randy
"Said the robin to the sparrow, I wonder why it must be, these anxious human beings rush around and worry so?"
"Said the sparrow to the robin, Friend I think it must be, they have no heavenly father, such as cares for you and me."
author unknown. Used to hang above parents fireplace.

CLL

rbhunter, I know sometimes forget to be as grateful as I should be about things.
Too much work-not enough pay.

Mike_Barcaskey

I feel privledged, by the grace of God and birth, to be an American
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

TexasTimbers

I wasn't aware so many people allow themselves to be dragged down by discussing the negativity surrounding us. I am not without critical words about this current group of thieves destroying our nation, but as I go through my day-to-day activities, I assure you I have every bit as much of a spring in my step and smile on my face as I always have.

Honestly, I was not aware of this prevailing sentiment on this forum. In fact I do not believe that it is prevalent.

I wonder if there is a misperception going on here???

My concerns: The mess we are selfishly leaving our children and grandchildren and great grandchildren unless we educate each other and stir ourselves to action.

My daily blessings for which I am continually and consciously thankful: My ability to enjoy every single day in the here and now despite our current problems; a wonderful family; a veritable castle compared to billions of others on this planet; a life of convenience, luxury, and abundance unparalleled in human history; countless seemingly "insignificant" modern day advances which make our lives easy, too easy perhaps. This list could go on and on but you get the idea.


Do some people have their lists upside down ???

Their concerns: Anything and everything imaginable.

Their daily blessings for which they are continually and consciously thankful: No time for that. Distracts from ability to worry responsibly.


If you are in that second group you can get out of it with a little effort. I mean if you have made a conscious effort to not be a worry-wart but cannot, try this. Keep a pocket pamphlet with you throughout the day. Start making a consistent effort to notice positive things around you.

Anything no matter how trivial it may seem. Whether a kind word spoken to you by a stranger, or whether you noticed a young kid wait a whole 5 seconds before going in a store so he could hold open the door for an elderly person. Maybe you just had a great memory of someone you haven't thought about in years. A friend told she finally quit smoking. Jot that down!

Don't write down anything negative nor even a "reminder" to do something. At the end of the day put the page in an envelope. In a week take them out and read them.

I have never had to do this because I am genuinely happy and upbeat. But the reason I believe it works is because a friend I have mentioned here a couple of time who has now passed, used to do this and he swore by it. I don't know where he got the idea but I have told 2 other people about this locally, and I know it is working for one person for sure. She has been doing it for several years and claims to never miss a day. I assure you she is noticeably more upbeat.

The other guy I do not have much contact with so I cannot report on him. If any of you manic/depressives who may be lurking want to try it, don't say you are not going to do it because you are afraid you'll lose your list. ::)

"Don't worry, be happy" may be a silly song but it has merit. Worry is just not good. Concern can be a positive force if kept in perspective. But a total lack of caring is a negative force. I don't think many of us here have to that worry about that. :)



The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

John Bartley

I think if we go through life fooling ourselves that everything is always bright and sunny, we'll never gain any ground and we'll leave our descendants in a poorer place then we received from our parents. Criticizing that which deserves criticism is something that should produce a positive result. That's a lot different from whining and complaining about everything.

I always look for the positives, but sometimes the positive comes from realising that something is wrong and fixing it.

False praise is like a false economy - it always ends up being more expensive than the real thing.

cheers

John
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
Champion 25hp band mill, 20' bed
Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

Part_Timer

I'm proud to be American,

1.) I'm proud I live in a country where I can whine, gripe, and complain about the government in public. 
2.) I thank God every day that I live in a country where I CAN thank Him in my own way.
3.) I'm proud to live in a country where they can burn the flag if they want to.  >:(
4) I"m proud to live in a country where I can kick the butt of a flag burner if I'm willing to do the time for it.  8)  8)

While things aren't great they sure could be worse.
Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

TexasTimbers

Part_Timer. You have a serious attitude problem. I like it a lot. ;D
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

gunman63


Slabs

I made the mistake of saying in the presence of an old Army buddy that "I couldn't do something" one time a while back.

He resoponded "I am an A-mer-I-CAN"!!  I've never forgotten it.
Slabs  : Offloader, slab and sawdust Mexican, mill mechanic and electrician, general flunky.  Woodshop, metal woorking shop and electronics shop.

Part_Timer

Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

Cedarman

Too many people have a disease I call "icantitis".   They will say I can't do it all the while they are doing it.   

We will get through this downturn because there are opportunities.  We have to be ready and have the belief that we will figure it out.  There will be failures for sure, but there will be successes. 

Believing we can make things better is not false hope.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Haytrader

I am trying to be optimistic.
::)
I even posted a job offer and it may just be what somone is looking for.
8)
Life is full of hills and valley's. The more we knock down the hills and fill in the valley's, the smoother the ride.
Haytrader

jim king

Another perspective on this from the other side of the world.  My wife and I have lived outside of the US more years than we have lived there and in many countries none of which you would call modern.  One thing we have found is that people of all types and everywhere we have been are very proud to be who they are and proud of their country no matter how humble it is.

Dirt floors , thatched roofs no walls , no electricity but always welcome and come on in and have something to eat.  We live in a town of about 450,000 I think and every Sunday morning there is a military parade and every hospital , school, public entity etc have a marching group and the Mayor and all dignataries give a speech at the central plaza.
Nationalism at its utmost.

It is a different culture to be sure as 95% of the people are poor but own their house and have no debt.  No need for expensive cars as we have no roads going any where but about 20,000 three wheel taxies buzzing around town.  Half the streets are not paved and at least once a week the lights go out for an hour or two.  The amazing thing is that everyone is happy.

Every couple of years I get back up to the States and do enjoy riding in a Ford.  In Africa we had nothing but Mercedes and Puegots and it was always a pleasure to get back home and into an American car.

Looking at the problem from a long ways away it looks so simple, to many have spent beyond their means from individuals to corporations thinking that inflation and luck would carry them thru.  The time has come when it is time to pay and that is a problem.

I have never been anywhere in the world that America and Americans were not thought of as the beam of light guiding the world but somebody better charge the batteries and not charge the bill.  Even our enemies respect us.

In South America it has been made into a national pastime having governmental financial crises over the years and somehow they always pull it out of the bag.  It has always taken stern and strict measures but it always gets done.  I have zero doubht that America will pull it together and get it back going again.  It will hurt a little but the education will be worth it.

I am a firm beleiver that if there is no smoke and no noise a country will go down hill.  A country is nothing more than a giant corporation and if it does not produce an income of more that it spends by producing products and not playing with paper the problem arises.  A country that does not have more dirty hands producing something than clean hands counting and critizizing is not producing true income and is in trouble.  Buying everything from China and creating huge trade losses plus trading dollars internally making hamburgers just dont make it.

Faron

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

stumpy

Thanks Jim, We needed that.
Woodmizer LT30, NHL785 skidsteer, IH 444 tractor

TexasTimbers

I enjoyed reading your perspective Jim. And not to take a thing away from it, but America has always been proud that we are "different". I guess the time is coming where our kids will say they are proud that we are "the same" as every other third world country.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Polly

well i am proud to be a hillbilly last account i had ky was still in the union and all of us are going down the same road togather as citizens of the usa and the ride is what we make it  :) :)

old joe

When I was a little boy, I was whining about some lack in my toy box andmy grandfather who was from Italy  told me "Joey, look at all the things you have.  Don't you think it's ENOUGH?"  It  surprised me!  He never spoke harshly to me.  But he taught me about ENOUGH.  Now 60 some odd years later, I think our fellow citizens, could use this word.  Are you rich ENOUGH?  Are you happy ENOUGH.  DO you have ENOUGH?
      When I look around I think most of our problems were caused by the notion that enough is never ENOUGH
THE NEW YANKEE TIL A NEWER ONE ARRIVES THEN I\'LL BE THE OLD YANKEE

Tom_in_Mo.

Howdy everybody......... I just want you all to know that although I am layed off, I am still kicking and will kick until my kicker quits me.
I got message from a dozen or so forum members. Yes I was down but you guys will never let a man be down. Not just me, but there have been members who have lost loved ones and you guys do what you can even though you may be hundreds of miles away.
I just want to thank you men and women for your Prayers and kind words.
Yes, I am proud to be an American. I think its going to get rougher for all of us, but if we will just hang in there, we will make it, just like the folks before us have.


CLL

Tom glad to see you out and about. Don't know much or have much but if I can ever help let me know. Will keep you and yours in our prayers.
Too much work-not enough pay.

thecfarm

How right Tom is. I have noticed all that you said,but never have thought of it all at one time.Americans have really brought it all on ourselves,BUT not in a bad way. There are too many regulations to keep the American worker safe,be it our health or just having a safe work  place. BUT that is a good thing.There is one example in my small world. We had a small wood business here in Chesterville that made the ceder trim that went on top of a 4X4 post to dress it up. The trim was stapled on the corners. Some one thought about gluing it to save money. The fumes was too strong for Americans to breath in,so guess where the cedar trim is being made now? Somewhere over seas. I know there are a lot more.Some I can understand and some I can't.
Fla Deadheader is right too. Seems like if you don't make fun of a way a person is dressed or what is on TV than some people have nothing to talk about.  :( 
There is ALOT going on where I work. We went from 160 people down to 30 people. There are more that are not working than that too. Many support people got the hammer too. I use to be a trouble shooter and a robot programmer. Now I run a machine and if a person has trouble with their machine they have to come take my place and I go fix it. Some days I only run a machine for 3 hours and some days it's all day. I do not ever see the work force like it was. Most jobs have been split up among 2-3 other workers.Lead people and supers are doing more out on the floor.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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