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Why are there more smaller Band Mill operators here then circle mill?

Started by MaddiesDad, March 03, 2009, 02:39:33 PM

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MaddiesDad


ErikC

  One thing I can think of is until the last few years there wasn't much well known option in regards to a portable mill other than Mobile dimesion type, or thin kerf bandmill. But I think we are slowly gaining on 'em ;)
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

Fla._Deadheader


Having had both, I believe portable, easier to set up, one man + 1 helper or not, to operate. Much less intimidating without that big disc spinning close by. Less hard work for 1 man to run.
Possibility of cutting in remote locations and cutting wider boards. Less money to operate per job, as in custom sawing on location.  ??? ???
  Could be other ideas.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

beenthere

What all is included in the "circle" mill?   Anything other than a band?  

And, where are you getting the numbers from, as to "more" smaller band operators?

Are you just talking portable mills, or any mills?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

MaddiesDad

I'm using the Sticky at the top of this forum of "Iron Iventory". 
Circle Mill:
56" Saw, automatic carriage, feed, etc.
Band Mill:
Woodmizer, Timberking, etc.


olyman

also much less kerf with a band vs circle---more boards--takes more power to run a circle also--

Ron Wenrich

Because the production is so much higher on a circle mill that it takes a lot more of those thin kerf bands to keep up.   :D

A lot depends on the markets you are trying to address.  If you're into custom or portable sawing, then the band mills or swing mills are a better route to go.  If you're looking at costs, then the bigger circle mills can drive costs down pretty much through higher production.  Each mill has its place.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Bibbyman

I just figured that band mill operators still had all their fingers (so they can use a keyboard).  :D ;D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

D Martin

There are also just a lot  hobby/personal use or part time sawyers here  and are using band mills cause they are easier to use and maintain and cheaper to get into a decent one or fixer upper or build one.
Good one Bibbyman  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
D M

Ron Wenrich

I never lost any digits to a sawmill, but lost part of a toe in a wood splitter. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

TexasTimbers

I think part of the reason there are a lot more bandsaw mills is marketing. Not that it's the only reason but without the aggressive marketing campaigns of the various manufacturers over the past couple decades there would not be nearly as many.

I think in a word though the biggest reason is:


Wood-Mizer ;)


Ron, I heard that the EMTs who responded were union, and refused to pick your toe up to carry it to the hospital because they weren't authorized, so they called a toe truck. ??? :)
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

gunman63

lost a toe in a wood splitter, OK inquiring minds need to know how this is  done ???

woodhaven

Were still here. Watching the bandsaw guys change blades. :D :D
Richard

Sawyerfortyish

I couldn't see how to get enough production out of a bandmill to survive and besides the horse people need sawdust for stalls. probobly the most reason for more bandmill than circle mills is cost of mill and support equipment. I guess a lot of guys arn't comfortable just a couple feet away from that big blade. 28yrs running a circle mill and I (nock on wood)have all my body parts.

backwoods sawyer

For me the decision was simple.
Thin kerf just makes sense.
Portability is what my business is based on.
Hydraulics makes handling the log a simple task.
Setworks allow for much more accurate cuts.
Smoothness of cut, why cut extra thick wood just to plane it off because the cut is rough.
Availability of a newer model, I have yet to see a 2000 or newer model bell saw.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

sgschwend

From a portable sawmill perspective:

There are a lot more band mill manufactures. 

There is a distinct difference in the safety, bands break and fly out, circle saws kick material out.

Circle mills cost more per feature.

Takes power to increase feed rate, same issue for either.

I have only found one customer who wanted the smoother surface typically created by band mill.

I have never had a customer question the recovery rate, I don't think this is an issue for them, it is an issue for folks who sell the wood they cut.

I run a Mighty Mite band mill, but Mighty Mite is much more famous for their Circular mills.
I would be happy to run one, but I still want my log handling hydraulics.


Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

bandmiller2

Its pretty much the differance between a hoby and an industry.Most banders and swingers start off with their own projects then turn a buck for outhers.A little harder to start right off with a dedicated site and large machinery.Most circular sawyers are making a living  at it and are too tired to talk about it half the nite.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ellmoe

  I went from a circular mill to band mills. Less people required (I can saw by myself if I wish), less horsepower (electric bills), definitely higher yields (cypress got expensive and harder to get), safer, cheaper blade and blade maintenance costs (hit alot of nails). Also, I can have a slow sawyer on a band mill and it won't kill me, get a slow sawyer on a circle mill and a bunch of guys waiting on him and you will go broke. Now the production goes to the circle mill, but if your crowding your market or log supply, what does it gain you? The dust from the circle mill is a "gold mine" now, the band mill, not so much. Initial price can be cheaper now on the more manual circle mills. The resale values on them are terrible. The finish on the band mill is a positive in most cases, however, some have wanted the circle cut, "rustic" finish.
   People ask me which mill to buy. I've had a couple of circle mills, a couple of skraggs, and four band mills. I tell them it depends on alot of issues. If there was one perfect mill, we'd all be using it! There's not, so we don't.

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

jeep534

Quote from: ErikC on March 03, 2009, 02:43:36 PM
  One thing I can think of is until the last few years there wasn't much well known option in regards to a portable mill other than Mobile dimesion type, or thin kerf bandmill. But I think we are slowly gaining on 'em ;)
I think most of the older part time circle sawmillers don't do computers.  I know two or three around here.

http://www.fricksawmills.com/00h.htm
archie =) =) =)

Meadows Miller

Gday

As some of You might have noticed  ;) :D Ive been doing a verry  indepth study ito this subject for along time now  ;) :D :D ;D ;D :D 8) 8) 8) ;) I call it Runing Horses for Corses  ;) ;D

As the saying goes No two Sawmillers are the Same  ;) ;D and We all like to do things Our Own Way  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)

Static Circs and Larger Bands  need alot of infrstructure to be productive Capital,Land,Log supply,labour ,Production planing ,power, material handeling eqip,ect ect   ;) ;D and thats why im holding of on the meadows build at the moment as i want it to be spot on when i start and not some Half Arsed thing  ;)  ;D 8) 8)

Portable circs swing mills ,twinsaws, are low puchase 7 running cost , flexable need minamal handeling equipment if needed  ;)are productive mills on std constuction and larger sizes and med 18" to large 60"+ dia range

Portable Band Sawmills are good mills on on most fronts low to medium purcase & running costs ,can be operated with minimal log handeling equipment if needed , can multiripp smaller sizes and can be extended to cut almost any length iff needed  and are productive on logs in the 10" to 24" dia range

With sawmilling I allways run on the pricipal that Time Vs Recovery  ;) ;D 8) and I get verry good recovery on avveage  ;D ;D 8) 8)

and If you where to put a New Hyd bandmill up against a New (eg 00 frick co) well setup manual Circular mill of the same price with good Sawyers  In Average logs 10 to36" dia  ;) I Reckon the Manual Circ would beat the Bandmill hands down once all the math was done at the end of the day  ;) ;D 8) 8)

Reguards Chris


4TH Generation Timbergetter

TexasTimbers

Meadows I am proud of you. You are using much more discretion. At this rate your smiley affliction will be relatively under control within the year.

I'm not saying you'll ever be able to make a smiley-free post,  but I predict a day when you'll be able to have a word-to-smiley ration of approximately 10 to 1, compared to the 1:1 ratio you started with when you joined. ;D  ;) :)
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Meadows Miller

Gday

TTs im trying Mate  ;) :D :D ive done a few with without any  so im on my way  ;) :D
I just see it as a way of showing how i feel at the time  ;) ;D

Anyway hows the project on the old circ you got going ??? ;) ;D have you got anything done on it yet as I reckon it would tidy up into a Nice sawmill Mate  ;) ;D 8) 8)

Reguards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

woodhick

I started out some 25 years ago (at the age of 19) with a Frick 01 circle mill with a 60" blade.  Kept mill on the family farm and usually went there by myself to saw with no one else around.  When my wife got pregnant with our first I decided to sell the mill.   Now I will add here that she NEVER  mentioned me getting rid of it but I could see the fear anytime I went to the farm, and I did not want her to go through that.   I went about 1 1/2 years without a mill and got the DT's.  We were young and I did not have the money to buy a mill so I built  a woodmizer clone.  Used that mill for several years and leased it out to a local timber framer which had me going through the dt's again without one so I bought a woodmizer LT40 and added hydraulics to it myself.   recently sold the homemade mill and still have the woodmizer.    Would I like to have another circle mill ???  Yeah but like the protabiltiy option of the woodmizer.  Since I am a one person operation I dont forsee me purchasing anonther circle mill, however a band mill can't  come close the the feel of a well tuned circle mill humming along.   Just my thoughts.
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

moonhill

I may be on the opposite spectrum of the smiley face problem Meadows Miller suffers under.  I have a similar number of post and have only use them once or twice.   :)  Now 3 times.  He also brought up the length factor.  My reason for a band mill is the unlimited length of track, weather you are cutting long lengths or multiple pieces, I love my long track.  It is a self contained unit, no overhead cables or chain drives.  Two hydraulic motors and small tires pressing against the track side.  I could ride it to Bangor if the track was long enough.   

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

Meadows Miller

Gday

Tim I also suffer from Speed reading which caused me alot of dramas in school  ;)and on the comp i can galse over smaller posts and understand them  no worrys but i might have to reread afew of the Larger ones tho as i can lose paragraps w/o understanding them fully  ;) I have to read most tech books by placing a blank page undr the line im reading to get a full understanding than just an overview   ;) Must be why i like breaking things up alittle Mate  ;) :D :D :D ;D ;)

The longest i cut was about 45' i think but we started out at 40' and there where a few extra feet added a few times over the years to go Just  a Little longer so it coud be more like 48 to 50' dont know as id have to go and measure afew ridge beams in houses dad & I built over the years  ;)  :D ;D 8)

Thats the main reason for me getting the Woodcraft 30-20 A hyd that and the fact ive wanted one Since I saw the first one when i was 8  ;) :D :D 8) 8)

and if you have a mill that will saw 24' you will sure enough have someone ask can you just go alittle longer and its better to have a mill that will do it easy than pushing one too as ive dine that one toomany times in the past  ;) ;D 8)

Reguards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

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