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Using clamps?

Started by WoodChucker, August 05, 2003, 09:38:33 PM

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WoodChucker

Just curious if you guys use the clamps on your band mills for every single cut or is it just while the log is still round? I may have gotten into a bad habit being a rookie and not liking to use them anyway, once the log is square I stop using them. So am I asking for trouble or is this ok?  It's not to late to change my ways.  ;D

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

chet

No, I don't use them all the time either. If the cant is heavy enough or wide enough that the band will not lift it, I leave them off.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

woodchip

I clamp it to keep any movement out.Just peace of mind,what little I have left! 8)

ohsoloco

Once I have two flat sides on a log, then I usually don't use the clamps unless it's a small log. My clamps are manual, and when I flip the cant a lot I don't bother clamping it...until it starts to get small...like less than eight inches or so.  I've also had some jump over the log stops and bind the blade up.

WoodChucker

Ok thanks guys, I guess as long as you use your head a little and don't get crazy with it, it should be safe enough. I don't mind taking a chance once in a while, as long as the odds are on my side.  ;D

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Kevin

I clamp close to the bottom on a cant.
You have to clamp anyway when the cant gets smaller so I do it while the cant is heavy.

Tom

I clamp as close to the bottom as I can too. When you're using a bunch of horses, you tend to saw a little more aggressivily than when you have a small engine. Clamping at the bottom allows the blade to roll the cant out of the clamp.  I get into trouble like that every now and again. :D

I think you should clamp every cut.  A loose cant could damage the mill and it's not worth it.

Fla._Deadheader

I agree with Kevin. My blades are $25.00, and, the odds are NEVER in my favor ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

EZ

I always clamp, know matter how big the log or cant is. My clamps are manual but only takes a few seconds to use them.
EZ

Larry

Been reading this thread and trying to figure out why anybody would ever want to clamp a cant.  I never clamp a cant and than it dawned on me my band runs in the opposite direction of a lot of mills and holds the cant against the log stops.

No big deal on a hydraulic mill but on a manual mill like I have it's a lot easier and faster especially if you're turning very much for grade lumber.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

WoodChucker

I wish you guys would make up my mind...  ;D  ;D

And you guys don't find these clamps to be a total pain?  I fight with them things every dang time I try to use them, there stiffer then he**, when I go to slide them on the rail they stick, when I think I got it clamped they fall off, they damage the lumber if you get em on to tight (which is most of the time). And then a few times I would forget to slide them back and put a log on the bed, then have to screw around for 10 minutes getting them back to the other side. I know most of this is operator error, but I still think there should be a better way of doing this. It's really the only complaint I have about this mill.  Thanks for letting me vent!  ;D

R.T.

If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

EZ

I've heard them type of clamps are a pain in the butt.
EZ

Kevin

The best way to operate the clamps is by raising them so the bottom doesn't come out of the support then slide the clamp up to the log .
I then apply a little pressure with my left shin to the bracket and then with my right hand apply pressure to the cam handle.
I can apply just the amount of pressure I need which is very important because when you clamp the cant you don't want to apply too much pressure to the bottom of the cant which can cause it to lift off the bed and go out of square.
If you push real hard on the bracket with your left shin before swinging the cam you will have usually have way too much pressure.
It's one of those things you get a feel for.

Russ

I keep a wheel wrench by the mill , it gives alittle leverage when popping off the clamps.
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AndyB

I agree with Kevin's approach.  I'm really new at this and thought the DanG clamps were a pain in the unmentionable.  But a little experimenting and I arrived at essentially the same conclusion.  Now it's a snap.  ;D 8)

Kevin

I get the clamp up as close to the log as I can, then the key is in how much pressure you apply with your left shin as you swing the handle to tighten the clamp.

D._Frederick

WC.,
When I slice up a cant, I alway put 3 clamps on the very bottom. This keeps the cant flat on the log rests, unless you want to turn the cant 180 degress after every cut to reduce stress.

WoodChucker

Kevin, thanks for the step by step explanation, that will help. In fact, I remember you telling me about this once before when I first joined the forum, but you didn't go into the detail then that you did this time. So if it's ok with you, I'll just blame you for me not understanding it until now, lol.  ;D  Just kidding of course, thanks for your help!

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Fla._Deadheader

Woodchuck, As ya just learned, when yer a new member, ya only get the "Generic" version of info. Once ya been around for a spell, and Don'T get run off, THEN ya get the real poop. ::) :D :D :D :D

  Do you saw in remote locations or near a power source. I used a threaded rod for moving my clamp and it works very well. I can squeeze logs and cants pretty hard. It is a 12-24V motor that runs on 12 volts. If ya had room for one, I could do some drawing and maybe hep ya get a little system rigged up, now that I'm useless for a while ::) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

WoodChucker

Thanks Fla._Deadheader, yeah I'd like to what your talking about, never hurts to learn a new trick. :)

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Fla._Deadheader

OK. Can ya post a detailed pitcher of yer mill, right where the clamp system is. That way, I can see how much room ya got to play with.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Fla._,
If there is not enough room for screw jack system, you could do what I did.
I have a 30 to 1 right angle screw drive reducer that I drive with a Vee belt from the motor. On the output shaft I have a roller chain sprocket that pulls a short length of roller chain that is connected to 3/16 cable that with pulley system pulls the log clamp back and forth. The drive is on the end of the track and out of the way. It has about a 800 lbs of clamping force.

WoodChucker

Fla._Deadheader, yeah no problem I can post a pic for ya. It's not much of a clamping system. :)

http://www.thewoodchucker.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/p8070061.jpg
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Fla._Deadheader

DanG, Woodchuck, is that it??? Can ya raise or lower the clamp??? How do ya clamp low on a log or edge boards?? Got a pic of the log stops???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

WoodChucker

LOL, I had a feeling it would shock you a little when you seen it. Yeah it goes up and down and the log stop is just a one inch square stub that sticks up. Don't worry about it, I know we have different mills now and I doubt your setup would work with mine. I appreciate all the help just the same. :)

R.T.  
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Wes_in_West_MI

Hello,

I am a newby who has been lurking in the shadows since I purchased my mill last September.  I have a LT-15 with the diesel.

I have to agree with Woodchucker, the clamps have been a nightmare but I am beginning to get the hang of it.  I have been doing what Kevin suggested and I am clamping more and swearing less.

Thanks for a bunch of great information.  I will still mostly lurk and when I learn enough maybe I can contribute.

Wes in West MI

Jeff

You dont have to know much to contribute. For example:

What did you have for supper and is there any left? ;D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom


Kevin

QuoteYou dont have to know much to contribute.

Why do I feel this was in some way directed at me?   :D

Wes_in_West_MI

Us LT-15 users don't get any respect; well, maybe we get as much as we deserve.

Have to tuck my "millie" in.  Good night.

Jeff

I'd take one even if it came with no respect. (Lt-15, not a kevin)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

WoodChucker

Wes_in_West_MI, welcome to the forum...oh and good night millie!  ;D

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Fla._Deadheader

Woodchuck !!!!  I'm appalled, shocked and dismayed. :o :o ::) :o  Why would you not want a jenn-u-wine Deadheader upgrade on that fine machine ??? ???
 Shoot fire, that would be a piece of cake. I could do it from here, even !!!!!!!!

 HEY. Didn't ANYBODY else see that the Newbie has a DIESEL Lt-15??? ???
  We gotta keep after him. He can tuck his Millie in, ANYTIME. ::) ::) ;D

  HEY, Wes_in_West_MI, We gotta know how that there Diesel thingy is on cuttin them logs ??? ???
  We need pitchers too. Some of us is not real good at understandin pointin and stuff  ::) :D :D :D :D :D :D
  Welcome to the best Sawin Forum on the Internet. ;D ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

WoodChucker

Fla._Deadheader,

hey I'd be very interested in your ideas and be very grateful for anything that would improve this clamping system. Your response just made me laugh, I could tell you were in shock when you seen this clamping system. Or at least it seemed that way.  ;D

Wes_in_West_MI,

I just wanted to say don't worry about waiting to learn something before you jump in and contribute to the forum. I don't contribute anything either, well useful anyway.  ;D  But if it weren't for people like me asking stupid questions then there wouldn't be much use for a forum. So in a way I've kept this forum alive and kick-in with all my dumb questions and what little you know now could very well be because I helped by asking questions!  ;D  ;D  Wow, guess I do contribute after all. :)

R.T.

If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Fla._Deadheader

  In my perdicamint, all I can do is laugh.  ::) ::) ::) ;D
Woodchuck. Got any problem drillin a couple holes in yer longitudinals ??? One will be 1" dia.
  I will draw up a design today. You will have to construct it. :D :D :D
  You will need a motor (12V or 115V). I like Permanent magnet starter motors, for intermittent duty. They are plentiful in the salvage yards. You will need an extra set of brushes, so it will run both ways. (More info later.)
   You will need a piece of 1" acme thread rod. DO NOT use all thread. You can get that at www.msc.com or Grainger, or whatever is near you. You will need 2 nuts for the rod. You will need 2 -2 bolt flange bearings to fit the acme rod. You will need a heavy duty piece of square tube or solid bar, about 1½" square and a piece of square that will fit over it that is loose, but, not real loose. There will be a couple other pieces. Let me get the drawing done. I can fabricate the square stuff here for ya, if need be. It's really a simple design and I can nearly bend my hyd. cylinder shaft. You won't need a cylinder.
  I may have a pic of mine on the mill to show ya.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

WoodChucker

Thanks Fla._Deadheader, yeah I can drill a few holes if I can find that longitudinal thingy..  ;D

This sounds like it could get complicated, hope it's not over my head and I waste your time. I'm not the greatest at electrical stuff. :(

Maybe if you can show me a pic of it before you get to involved in drawing up plans it would tell me if it's something I think I could do myself. I just hate to waste your time, and it's really nice of you to take the time to do it.

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Fla._Deadheader

I got 6 weeks worth of time to spend, and, if it helps someone, it AIN'T wasted ;) ;D
  I can't find a pic, but, my son is going to the mill tomorrow and do a little sawing, I will have him take some pics.
  The hardest thing will be getting a motor that turns both ways. The rest is easy.
  Ya never said a preference as to voltage ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

WoodChucker

Fla._Deadheader,

I guess 12V would be fine, does it run off a battery or will I need an ac/dc converter? Oh and take your time because theres no hurry. :)

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

pappy

Yo Fla._Deadheader,

I too have been hanging out in the shadows here at the Forestry Forum as Wes_in_West_MI has been doing.  I also have been looking for a better way of clamping logs and cants :(
 
 I've had my "Little Oscar" for three years and that's the weakest link. When you get your proto type up and going  would you be so kind as to either post it somewhere or email to me  ;D

Maybe you should think about getting a patent and sell it to the mill manufactures 8).

12V is what I'd need.

from another new guy,
thanks

 P.S. I know we all like pictures so here's a few of my little set up 14' wide X 24' long building  8)

looking west

looking east



back storage room


mill in winter ( this is in January still 3 months to go)  :(  




"And if we live, we shall go again, for the enchantment which falls upon those who have gone into the woodland is never broken."

"Down the Allagash."  by; Henry Withee

WoodChucker

termite,

welcome to the forum. Thats a real nice setup you got there. I really like that big Whack of lumber you got too!  ;D  ;D Did I do good Jeff?

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

pappy

WoodChucker

I got more Wacks of lumber than I know what to do with  :D


this is looking south from the front of the mill


termite
"And if we live, we shall go again, for the enchantment which falls upon those who have gone into the woodland is never broken."

"Down the Allagash."  by; Henry Withee

WoodChucker

Holly jingles, thats a lot of Whacks. :)  
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Fla._Deadheader

Termite, welcome to the forum. The clamp we made will scoot a 20" X 16' log across the bunks to the stops. The log slides, usually, instead of rolling. We have a hydraulic cylinder to raise the top of the clamp. All you guys will need is a couple of extension pieces to drop onto the clamp leg, for added height. Pictures should be here by Sunday evening, so you can let me know if you are interested.
  I'm not selling, just helping out, if I can.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

wiam

Deadheader
Show me Tell me more.  There should be one of those clamps on the wiammizer.  I can almost picture it.  What kind of application does the salvage motor(12v) come from?
I think I have seen a picture of your log loader on your mill.  Could you point me toward that picture?

Wiam

Wes_in_West_MI

termite,

From one lurker to another:  nice looking setup you got there.  My millie is still naked and that building you have pictures of looked real good to her.  She says it's important to get her most important parts covered up.

Tell us how that building has worked out in your sawing operation.

Wes_in_West_MI

Fla._Deadheader,

I was going to post some pics of the mill but millie said not until she was washed up and all the slabs cleaned out of the closet.

She cut a whopping two logs today, but did a nice job so can't complain.

I did discover, though, that in trying to make lumber out of where there ain't any, I left some bark as wane and the local bug population (white grubs in white pine) is having a smorgasboard!!

Bibbyman

Welcome to the Forum Wes.  

The LT15 is a fine mill – capable of producing lumber second to none.  Even though we've got an LT40HD25 Super,  sometimes we run across something we'd rater just saw it on an LT15 – if we had one.  

I've jiggled the clamps on an LT15 a few times.  The only problem I had was bending over. ::)

Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Fla._Deadheader

Wiam, Is this the one ???



  I am using a 1/5th HP 12V gearmotor on my clamp. I also used outboard motor starter motors. I would think any compact car starter would work. It only runs intermittently.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Mark M

Hi Termite

Boy that is really a nice setup you have and that snow sure looks nice!

What is that little pink thing by all them whacks of lumber? some kinda prairie dog or sumptin? :D

Mark

AtLast

I cant imagine NOT using clamps. I assume most of you are talking about manual clamps?  I have hydrolic and like I say I cant, kant without a clamp on my cant, kant imagine canting, kanting....ahhhhhhhh the heck with it...I always clamp  ;D

pappy

thanks folks fer the great reception,
 
Mark M,
 the "little critter" (Sadie) in the foreground is my nephew's first one,  a sweet Hartt,  they had their second one(Silvia)the same day as my daughter did (Baby Kate) both  little girls!!   PAPPY (that's me) WITH BIG CHEST ;D ;D   !!!  
The snow is nice we really enjoy snowmobiling-- until April--mud season.  
 
Fla. Deadheader  
Any help is great but I'm awaitin' fer them pics, I  don't have hydraulics but I was hoping for a 12V motor/screw clamp and maybe a two level clamp-- like a tall one for clamping a log --then drop that and use the same to clamp down to the last board. Could that be done ??? me scribblins might be just that, hopes you get the idea though





wes_in_west_MI
the mill building has worked out just the way it was planed_stay dry_out of the direct sun_shut it down in winter -- logs in easy, edgings  and sawed lumber out even easier. Here's an almost naked "millie" she lived like this fer almost two summers until I got enought lumba (they talk like that down in the lower part of the state)ta build a buildin'



AtLast and Bibbyman
Manual clamps do have their draw backs BUT fer a part timer like moi the cost for me (hydraulics) just ain't justifiable,  and the jiggling does git old and if I could do a retrofit fer not to many $$$  it just might be something I'd like to try and I think alot of sawers out there just might agree.


"And if we live, we shall go again, for the enchantment which falls upon those who have gone into the woodland is never broken."

"Down the Allagash."  by; Henry Withee

Fla._Deadheader

DanG Termite. Ya got it figgered out already. I wuz gonna suggest 2 different length of dogs, that you would drop onto the sliding gizmo thingy. On ours, we put the acme thread under the slide bar. That keeps nearly all the sawdust from dropping into the threads and gumming up.
  I'm gonna try drawing with Bob and see what happens. Later
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Fla._,
I need some schooling on how you are wiring dc motors. On reply #34, you mention about a "extra set of brushes to reverse a permanent magnet motor". Please explain why/or how you use the brushes to reverse the motor rotation. I have never torn one down to see the configuration.  On my permanent magnet gearmotor, all that is required to reverse it is to switch the two wire input.

Fla._Deadheader

"D", What took ya so long ??? :D :D
  My gearmotor is just like yours. It is wired "Reversible".
  If ya try to use a one way motor, There are 2 sets of brushes.  1 set insulated, 1 set grounded. That way ya get a system ground when bolting the motor on. If ya take the motor apart, you can USUALLY remove the grounded set and add a 2nd insulated set. Ya just have to find room for the insulated stud you are going to use. That gives you 2 insulated studs-brushes, for hooking the + and -, and lets the motor turn opposite directions.. Finding a space to drill the hole is the tricky part  ::)  It's REAL easy with OMC outboard starters. You also need 4 solenoids, for reversing current flow.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Fla._,
Thanks for the reply, I understand what you are doing, I thought that you were mounting another set of brushes for reversing some way. On my 90 volt system, I am using a DPDT switch, but am not handing the amperage of a 12v system. Since you are using a starter motor, are you direct coupling it to the threaded rod?  I made a power up/down for my log post using a acme thread, but have not the right gear ratio, since it  is on the slow side.
Your clamping system has more power than mine, I can only move a 12inch X16ft with the 1/3 hp ac motor.
Hope you are staying off the leg!

wiam

Thanks Deadheader, yes that is the picture.  Would a wiper or window motor be too small?
Wiam

Fla._Deadheader

Guys, what you need for the clamp is torque, rather than speed. I actually geared UP from my 1/5th HP motor, to turn the screw thread. I used bicycle chain and sprockets. Works great, even after I hit it with the backhoe bucket and we hammered it back into submission  ::) ::)
  Our system is a little on the slow side, but, ya Don'T wanna get yer fingers caught in there.
  As "D" just pointed out, gearing is everything if yer underpowered.
  I should have some pics sometime today. ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Fla._Deadheader

   OK. Here is a pic. It was raining so hard up at the camp, My son covered his head with a towel to take this, so he wouldn't ruin our camera. The screw thread runs drectly under the 1½" square solid bar. I had envisioned an upright on top of the sliding piece, instead of where we have the cylinder. That way, it would fit in a tight area that the smaller mills have. The sprockets are inside the cover that is on the end of the motor.





All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Fla._,
Nice work, first class on design and workmanship.

How is the design coming on the pneumatic lift, do you think that you can get enough lift (vacuum) in the depth of water you are working in? If you can use the lift, why can't you use a fire hose?
Hope that you are staying off that leg!

Fla._Deadheader

Thanks, "D". If we use water as the creater of the vacuum, it requires a high pressure pump to move the amount of water to create the vacuum. It would also be heavy and difficult to handle in the current.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

EZ

FD, I have the same clamp set-up, except mine are manual. Do you only use one clamp.
EZ

Fla._Deadheader

Same clamp, except manual ??? ???  Do you manually turn the screw thread with a hand crank??? If so, you should try a motor. It's MUCH easier  ::) :D :D :D :D
 One clamp is all we have needed, so far, even on the 24' log.
  We have 2 log stops and several "bumpers" when the cant gets cut closer to the bed. This clamp holds very well, even on 2X stuff laying flat. We welded "bumps" on the face of the clamp top. That stops the cant from riding up under pressure, unless ya clamp too hard. Like all the others have mentioned, clamping a cant too hard will cause it to be out of square.
  We also use the hyd part to help turn logs. If a log or cant is too heavy, I can raise it, but, the clamp will not motor (1/5th HP). The teeth also grab the log too aggressively and prevent moving the clamp with the weight on it.
  I am slowly cutting the teeth off the top of the clamp :o :o ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

pappy

Fla_Deadheader,

Thanks fer all the input about the log clamp. The description and pics really helped. :)  Gonna run this by a bud that's really good at fabbin' stuff, you should see the pressure washers he builds and sells locally, loggers and farmers luvs em. (pressure washers that is) :D

I got a flyer with surplus gismos and inexpensive 12V DC motors maybe I could make it work??

If you don't mind I'll do a sketch and run it by ya in a few days ta see what ya thunk. ;D

thanks,
termite
"And if we live, we shall go again, for the enchantment which falls upon those who have gone into the woodland is never broken."

"Down the Allagash."  by; Henry Withee

Fla._Deadheader

Termite, I frequent Surplus Center in Lincoln, Nebraska. I use quite a bit of their stuff. That's where the 1/5th HP motor came from. It is 12/24V. I run it on 12V.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

EZ

F-D, Yes I hand turn the clamps, I have course threads on the rods. They move fast, but wont move a log or cant. One of these days I'm going to make them auto. ;D
EZ

Larry

No clamps Ma! ;D ;D




Sawing small walnut cant.  Offbear was lazy so I just cut down to the bed on this one.  Most of the small walnut I sawed inside out 2 cants at a time to maximize yield of the heartwood and waste the sapwood but had to use the clamps for that.




Bigger cant and boards so I picked up each board as I cut them.




My normal way of edging.  Again no clamps.

If you can safely do it on your mill no clamps is the way to go.

Really watching this thread as my clamps are probably more awkward to use than the WM clamp.  Hope FD comes up with something I can use on my 4-post mill.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Fla._Deadheader

Nice pics, Larry. I could probably saw without clamping, at times, but, with the electric driven clamp, it only takes a second to use it.
  I can't believe a clamp like we built would not work on yer mill. Do you have hyd. or electric, on yer mill ???, or, is it all manual ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Larry

Electric - but no hyd.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

D._Frederick

Larry,
What make of mill is that you have, I don't recognize it from the photos? It looks like a heavy duty mill.

Larry

It's a Kasco 2B.  Never thought of it as heavy duty but in 9 years haven't been able to break or wear out anything on it other than guide bearings.


Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

pappy

Fla_Deadheader,

I've been getting some parts together to make my log clamp and I got a question fer ya, I got the 1/5th HP motor with 12/24V and it turns at 30 RPM wit 174 in.lbs. I got the Acme threaded rod with 6 threads per inch, now I need to know what size bicycle sprockets I should use. I looked at an old 10 speed bike one of my girls had and looks like I got enough sprockets to choose from. ;D

Thanks    
"And if we live, we shall go again, for the enchantment which falls upon those who have gone into the woodland is never broken."

"Down the Allagash."  by; Henry Withee

Fla._Deadheader

  The mill is 180 miles away, so, I may be off a bit. The sprocket on the motor is slightly larger than the one on the acme thread. I am guessing, 21 or so to 15 or so.
   My son will be up there the end of next week. I can have him count the teeth, if you can wait that long.
   Biggest one is from a 16" bike and the other was used???
  That may give you a starting point???

   Ummmm, I hope you got the right motor. The one I have is 170 RPM@ 1/5th HP. Cost $99.99???
   If ya got the one I am thinking, you won't have enough power. I have one that matches your description, on the movable blade guide, and another runs the cam and advance on the Sharpener???  Cost was $32.50???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Termite,
If your gearmotor turns at 30rpm and you have 6 threads per inch, with a 1 to 1 ratio your clamp will move 5 inches per minute. This would be too slow, your clamp should travel the width of your mill in under 30seconds or you will be standing around waiting too much. For starters, try a 10 tooth on the thread and at least a 50tooth on the gearmotor. This will give you a speed of 25 inches per minute, a little on the slow side. I don't think that your 174 in-lbs of torque when divided by 5 will give you much clamping force, it is equal to having a 12 inch wrench and applying 3 lbs of force to the screw.

pappy

Fla_Deadheader and D_Fredrick,

It's guys like you and others as well that make this forum a great place to source out information!! ;D ;D

O.K. I got the Acme threaded rod 7/8" diam. with 6 teeth per inch , and it looks like I'll need a gear motor with a RPM of at least 170 to make the clamp move across the rod, about 28 " of travel in roughly one minute, sounds good to me. What do I need for inch lbs.on the gear motor, and what size sprockets should I get??

"3 lbs of force to the screw", I thought when using a screw you  increase in torque? I guess I would only need about 40 or 50 lbs of holding force with the clamp?

 Do I really need the gear motor?  I can push the log/cant, I just need better and faster clamping.  I'm tired of the manual clamps slipping when trying to use them.

Could I use a motor like this one since I'm transferring power to a screw??

194 RPM, 24 VDC
• LEAR SIEGLER. Permanent magnet motor with brushes for use in large industrial automated robot systems. Used, good condition.
SPECIFICATIONS
• 24 VDC • Reversible
• 1/4 HP • Shaft 5/8" diam. x 1 1/2"
• 194 RPM w/keyway
• 13 amps • 6 1/2" diam. x 7 7/8"
• Cont. duty • Shpg. 40 lbs.
 

Keep in mind I got no elec. at the mill so I'm gonna run it off of a 12 volt battery ( I got a deep cycle for my elec. trolling motor) and charge it when needed, I never saw a full day.  If I really need 24 volt I'll just get another deep cycle battery.

Thanks for any help you can provide,
termite
"And if we live, we shall go again, for the enchantment which falls upon those who have gone into the woodland is never broken."

"Down the Allagash."  by; Henry Withee

MemphisLogger

In regards to battery driven electronics,

We lost the stator on the 18horse Briggs on our LT-30 and haven't had time to pull the flywheel off to fix it.

Our tempoarary solution was to replace the car battery that came on the mill with an Optima deep cycle starting battery, the same as I have in my truck.

These batteries are amazing. The mill will run for more than 12 hours without a charge and I've never had the battery in my truck go dead despite winching and listening to CDs all day long without runninmg the truck.

They cost a little more--about $120 apiece--but are well worth it.    

  
Scott Banbury, Urban logger since 2002--Custom Woodworker since 1990. Running a Woodmizer LT-30, a flock of Huskies and a herd of Toy 4x4s Midtown Logging and Lumber Company at www.scottbanbury.com

pappy

Fla_Deadheader

I do believe I got the gear motor you mention.  Oh well  I can always return it. :-/



"And if we live, we shall go again, for the enchantment which falls upon those who have gone into the woodland is never broken."

"Down the Allagash."  by; Henry Withee

Fla._Deadheader

   Termite, You DO have the wrong motor for the clamp. The Lear Siegler would do the job. I MAY get some flak from "D" on this one, ;D, but, the Torque is more important to me, than the speed.
  The motor I use has 68 in/lbs, listed. It's a gearmotor. Surplus Center MAY have a few left. Call them. The part # is 5-1333, Bison Brand. The output shaft is 4½" long. Gives ya room to play. We cut most of it off. ??? They will exchange the other one, IF, ya got it from them.
   On the Swinger we are building, we are going to use wheelchair motors. They have torque and are geared and are 24V-reversible. Run around $100.00 or maybe less???
   When it contacts the log, it will usually move it against the stops. It will "lug" and put some serious pressure against the log or cant. Occasionally, I may have to help it. The SS protector strips are NOT worn shiny yet  ::).
   I substituted an outboard motor starter motor, to get more speed, and "lost" the "PUSH". Size of the sprockets is not a great concern, AS LONG AS, there is room for them, so the log won't hit them, when ya load one. AS I mentioned before, we geared UP about maybe 8 teeth more than the driven sprocket, to get a little more speed. There IS a compromise that has to be reached, so ya get the max torque, without losing speed.
   My info may not be according to the book, so, take it with a grain of salt, BUT, it works for us  ::) ;D ;D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Termite,
I ran a few figures, with the following estimates: The 1/4 hp Lear motor is a gearmotor with an rpm of 194 and has approx. 70 inch- ounces if torque. I used info for a steel shaft with a bronze nut (no grease)

Using  a 1 to 1 ratio (driving the screw at 194 rpm) will give you 32.3 inches of travel per minute.  This will give you a clamping force of 90lbs (more with grease).
I would use a 24tooth sprocket on the motor and 32 on the threaded shaft. This would give you a travel time of 2ft per min. with a clamping force of 120lbs. That is using 24volts.

Fla._Deadheader

   Thanks for that "D". I KNEW you would figger that for us ;D
  My guess was pretty close at 8 teeth difference. :o
   That'll give ya a little more speed, with a tick more torque.
  I LOVE it when things add up once in a while. ;D :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

pappy

Fla._Deadheader, and D._Frederick,

Thanks for all of the input!!!! :) :) :)

Ain't the web a great place where three guys from about the three furthest places from each other in the country working on a log clamp!! Amazing!! 8) 8)

I'm gonna order what I need and put this clamp together and I'll let you know how it works and post some pics. ;D

again thank you guys so much.

termite
"And if we live, we shall go again, for the enchantment which falls upon those who have gone into the woodland is never broken."

"Down the Allagash."  by; Henry Withee

Fla._Deadheader

  HAH. Ya think all this info is great???
  Jest wait'll ya get the consultation bill :o :o
   :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Lickskillet

Well, WoodChucker and all, I just found out why ya'll don't like to use clamps. I was cutting 2" cedar boards with natural edges for rustic furniture and buried my blade in the clamp for my first time. It went 1/3 way through the clamp, cut the chain on the lift and turned my blade teeth to nubs. Then I had to get it out of the log.:-[
I guess I'm now one of a fine breed of sawyers. 8)
What a waste of a good hour. I'm sure that's the last time. Right! ::)
Lickskillet

Fla._Deadheader

  I ain't never sawed all that much at one time. You must be one of them "Super Sawyers".??? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

What is the SUPER blade that you using?? Must be one hell of a blade to cut that must steel.

Lickskillet

I believe its Simonds. Bought through Cook's Saw. Good blades! (Was a good blade) :(

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