Which mill to buy for this situation?

[spruce]

Hi folks. I am new here (just got the internet). I run a small dairy farm in New England now but I used to work in a sawmill in high school and in the woods when I got out, years ago. Some people I know want to do a large construction project that will need about 300-500 mbf over the next few years. They want to get as much of the lumber from their 800 acres of woods as they can, for environmental reasons, not because they think they can save money. They have a lot of money.

These circumstances have me thinking about buying a sawmill since I may have a built in market for a while that could get the mill paid for or close to it, depending on what I buy.
I rent the farm so I would prefer the mill be portable so I could sell it or take it with me when I leave the place I am on.

[spruce]

Sorry, I typed enter before I was done listing the circumstances
I will be sawing mostly softwood for stick and timber framing members and 1" boards, plus a little hardwood for this and that. I can afford a down payment on a new Woodmizer LT40HDG28 or LT40HDD51 if that is the best mill for the job. Also curious about Timber King, Baker, and portable circle mills. If I get a band mill I want something that can saw some lumber (hydraulics) since I have other things to do and the more I can saw the less they will buy elsewhere.

I can get help cheap (teenage kids).
I am a decent mechanic, welder, etc, but I have no experience fixing sawmills, or running them.

Any suggestions for what to buy, and also any other advice? I used to love working in my uncle's mill for pocket money and I am looking forward to getting back to it.
Thank you.

[Dan_Shade]

if you are for real looking to saw 300,000 to 500,000 bf of lumber, you definately want a high production mill, like a LT40HDD51 or an LT50, or an LT70.  steer clear of the regular hydraulic, you'll never get done!  That's my amature opinion

What do you have for material handling, counting logs, slabs, and lumber?

do you have a plan for the waste material?

[brdmkr]

Welcome to the FF Spruce.

I have a Lucas 618 and it has been a great mill for me.  However, I am not sawing anywhere near the volume you are thinking of.  With that much volume required, I woul go with a mill that is as automated as I could afford.  Hydraulics are your firend!  I would also purchase as much horsepower as I could afford.  Honestly, I would not think of a project requiring 100mbf/year or more without a hydraulic mill.  In fact, this much volume would be VERY difficult to saw with a manual mill if working alone and part-time.

If you get time, you might want to post what kind of lumber you want to produce (framing, siding, timbers, some of all) as that will have a bearing on the mills you should consider.  Also, it would help to know the size of the logs you hope to most commonly handle and what species, etc.

In the mean time, check out the sponsors to the left.  Watch videos of mills, visit mill owners, and try your hand at running various mills.  Good luck, sawmilling gets in your blood!

[brdmkr]

Well, I see you ansewered a lot of questions, and had someone else chime in while I was typing!  Goes to show you can get some help here :D :D

[ErikC]

  There is going to be a lot of tractor work involved, are you also doing the logging? High production is the thing you need. If there is a short timeframe that makes it even more so. Full hydraulics and plenty of power in a bandmill for sure. How big are the logs? If they are good sized, I'd consider a swing mill as well. Whatever you decide, it's a pretty big investment so are these people trustworthy, and can you get some kind of contract or deposit?

People are posting faster than I can type!! I need an orange triangle on my keyboard. :D

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum.
Along with the other suggestions, find and get to a show in the area where you can see the different mills working and talk to the reps that are there.
Look at the laundry list of sponsors to the left, and you can count on any of them having something that will work well for you, and have good back-up help.

Keep asking questions...and you will find many helpful forum people here...with your interest in mind. Very unselfish group, fer sur..

[beenthere]

............ Some people I know want to do a large construction project that will need about 300-500 mbf over the next few years. They want to get as much of the lumber from their 800 acres of woods as they can, for environmental reasons, not because they think they can save money. They have a lot of money.
................

Comes to mind that this large construction project might require grade-stamped materials.  Something that you would want to know before getting into a contract with them. And I'd assume you would be doing that contract, for your peace of mind.

[spruce]

Thanks for the quick replies. I should have been clearer. I don't really imagine I will be sawing all or even most of the lumber for the construction. Even if I could saw it, they might not be able to cut it. I might expect to saw in the neighborhood of 100 mbf over three to five years but that number could be off by a lot.

Handling equipment? I have four tractors, two with bucketloaders, a skidsteer, and so on. Typical dairy farm line of equipment. The skidsteer and one tractor need to be in the barn morning and night, but then again so do I usually.

Waste products? Sawdust beds the barn. Slabs and edgings get burned for sugarwood

As for grade stamped structural members, my oldest son used to be a NELMA certified grader and I will ask his advice.

Thanks again for the replies.

[Ianab]

I would definately look at the Swingblade mills, for several reasons.

Cost - probably 1/2 what a high performance bandmill will set you back.

Portability - Check

Slicing out dimension lumber from decent size softwood logs is their specialty. They can saw grade lumber from smaller hardwood logs to, but so can any sawmill, so no great advantage there. Large timber framing beams are easy enough to saw, up to 16x8 if you double cut with an 8" swingmill, even bigger if you want to flip the log over.

Low Maintenance - Blades are resharpened on the mill in a couple of minutes, and retipped easily by a saw doc. There are a couple of other minor wear parts, rollers and engine consumables, but gas would be the main running cost.

Possible downside - They are manual - So you will want a decent crew to get high production from one, but you have workers. Running the mill is not really hard work, but you do have to wind handles, flip levers and walk the saw. The main work is offloading the boards, but you have to do that with any portable sawmill.

You also need to consider how the WHOLE operation is going to work? Of course swingmills can be set up semi-permanant and the logs bought in to the sawing site. But the idea behind their design is that they can be taken to where the logs are. So large logs can be sawn where they fall, or smaller logs can be gathered at a small landing in the woods, sawn there the lumber carried out with relatively light machinery, (farm tractor and trailer). The Enviromental reference makes me think that may be preferable to your client rather than having large skidders dragging logs all over the 800 acres. The swimgmill can stealth in, saw up a few trees and only leave behind a tree top, a patch of sawdust and some slabs to rot down.

You are obviously doing your homework, but make sure you consider how the whole operation is going to work.  ;)

Good Luck

Ian

[thecfarm]

spruce,you say New England,where?There is a show in show in Bangor,Maine on May 1-2. This is the link for ME.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,35903.0.html
One in New York too,April 3-4. This one is for NY
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,35769.0.html

I can only speak for the Bangor one,but I suppose NY is the same,there will be all makes of sawmills and anything to do with wood there.

[beenthere]

....oldest son used to be a certified grader...

Can he still grade and stamp, as a traveling grader? If so, he could be a valuable person to have on board.  8) 8)   Graders have a ton of valuable knowledge to pass on. 
Can you get him to join the Forum.

Sounds like you have the bases covered pretty well. Have fun finding a mill that you like.

[Tom Sawyer]

Either LT40HDD51 or LT70.  The LT50 won't get you much more production than the 40 Super, and if you want the vertical side arms and chain turner you might as well go with the 70 for not much more $ (plus you get a couple of other features with the 70).

That's what I would do anyway

[Ironwood]

Welcome, the only thing I have to add is you will want some of those LOGRITE peavies and cant hooks. See the bar to the left, they are outstanding and worth every penny, trust me I am as cheap, if not cheaper than the dairy farming folks back home and the one I worked for as a kid, and I dont regret spending the money.

You are going to certainly need material handling capability. Nearly everytime I see a high production mill, the "high production" is hampered by lack of good material handling on both the supply side (logs) AND the product and waste streams "down slope" from there.  ;), no use in spending that money if you cant consistantly keep from burying yourself in product and waste.

         Ironwood

[okie]

I too own a lucas mill and would highly reccomend you go the swing mill route as well for the reasons already stated and..
1. They are really simple to operate. If not for safety consideration, I my 7 year old could cut a log into true lumber with very little guidance.
2. Once the log is on the bunks it is stationary till the last board comes off. No log turning.
3. Price. pound for pound the swing blade mills are cheaper.
4. Hydraulics are not needed. The bunks are on the ground and as stated before, once on the bunks you are done moving the log.

Peterson has an automated swingmill, and I believe it comes in 8" or 10". Look it up on you tube, it is really cool.
Lucas just came out with a 10" mill.
Double cutting is easier on a peterson, and I think overall they are easier to operate, but lucas wins the price war and is a fine mill.
Just my $.02

Morgan 

[Dan_Shade]

swing mills are a lot of manual labor, it's a really good idea to work around a mill that you are looking to purchase for a day or so, or at least see how they work at a show.

with the bandmills you are looking at, the saw heads are driven by power, the swingmills are push or pull through the cut, unless you get a fully automatic one, it all adds up at the end of the day.  Also, it's nice to have the boards coming off at 30" or so, such that you don't have to bend over to lift the boards while offbearing.

[cheyenne]

I have a twin blade auto-matic With a 27hp kohler & load with a skid steer with forks. IMHO it's the only way to go.....Cheyenne

[Tom]

100,000 feet isn't that great of a load for an LT40 or similar mill.  If the logs are ramped, and all you are doing is sawing, you can plan on 1300 to 2000 board feet a day with a regular LT40 hydraulic and  a 25 horse engine.   New is nice, but you don't have to have new.  There's not much to hurt on a mill like that.  Most wear and tear is replaceable parts.  Wood Mizer, Baker and Norwood all have mills that would work.

I sawed for years with a 1990 LT40HD, in a portable, custom sawing business.  The mill is still in service.  You can buy more mill and it would make it easier on you, perhaps, but I would take on the job you describe with my old LT40 in a heartbeat.

[Dan_Shade]

I was thinking about that after my first post, Tom...

if I'm sawing 12-16' logs, i can hit the 2000bf mark per day pretty easily with 1 good helper (easier with two) with my LT40HDG25.  that's 50 days, but counting for maintenance, and other stuff, i'd say 60-70 days.

It just depends on how fast you want to roll through the logs.

[Chico]

My question would be what kind of matierials forming framing finish If I were going to look toward that production I'd go with a circle mill and use a band resaw I think you'd find that the cost would be about the same as  big horiz band and much quicker and more durable and when you fished you could sell the circle if you wanted and still have the band to adapt to your own uses

[ErikC]

  The fact is, even if you cut it all in one day you'll need a heck of an offbearer to get the job  done fast. athere is only so much one or two guys can stack day after day.Any of the fully cabable mills mentioned, such as an LT40 with hydraulics, or swing mill, or dimension mill would keep up with you. Remember machinery is your friend ;D

[Chico]

it's according to how many separations he make  and if he sorts his logs ie 8 10 12 etc and  even grade wise if he has the room runs them together you have an advantage and it's actually very simple and surprisingly cheap to build an Arkansas stly sorter for your heaviest seperations  Good prod starts in the logyard imoI thought I heard him say he had some strong backs helping him jmo

[bandmiller2]

Spruce,get all the hydraulic log handling equip. you can in your line of work your back is most important save it.Any of the three types of mills would work but circular mills are not that portable,the woodmizer your considering is as good as any.Try to make the show in Bangor,you can see it all.Frank C.

[Chico]

 Bandmiller I was really talking about the mill pkgs like meadows modular mills  has everythings there it's matched and pretty good service I've sawed 30000 on one with a vertcal edger had re4ally good logs poplar and red oak I have always fed spruce pretty hard course I haven't sawed that much spruce but I do remember it would get a saw warm pretty quick