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Colleges with sawmills and or sawmill programs

Started by chep, February 24, 2009, 03:29:13 PM

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chep

I go to Paul Smiths College, the college has a circle saw mill (56 inch saw with Lane setworks)and 6 mbf dry kiln. the thing is currently sitting idle, and the college has put "caution keep out" flagging around the area. Now, there are some serious structural issues with the building blah blah. Now for the question. I am currently in a class that is evaluating the resources that the college posseses that contributes to the field of forestry/natural resources. My team has choosen to focus on the sawmill and dry kiln facility as a resource. We need to collect data to prove its contribution or lack there of to the big picture. Besides being an awsome hands on experience (i was in the last class to run the mill and kiln as a sophmore and it was a great experience), i need to prove its value or again lack there of.
  I need to know if there are any other schools that have a running sawmill/kiln facility? My google searching has been very unproductive. If anyone can steer me in the right direction or give any input on the subject it would be much obliged.

thanks

Dan_Shade

how old is the mill?  is it automated?

what type of kiln? 

What would you do with the dried lumber?

What will you do with low grade lumber not worth drying?

what costs are associated with running the mill?  is there a possibility for return on investment?

You've got some legwork to do, but it's a good excercize, you'll be dealing with things like this through your career.  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Riles

Louisiana Tech has a large circle mill (100 hp electric) that they run once a year for their hardwood grading seminar. They have a kiln also, but I don't know the last time it was run (certainly not in recent history).

The operation has merit as a research tool, but any attempt to make money with it runs up against the reality of competing against commercial mills (who supply the logs for the seminar for free).
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

Dodgy Loner

The wood lab run by the forestry school at UGA houses the LT40 electric-powered sawmill used by the Wood Quality Consortium to process static bending samples and other wood samples used in research.  The forest mensuration lab class used it once a year to calculate the accuracy of the different type of log scaling equations (Doyle, Scribner, International).  The Forestry Club also used it occasionally to saw up 8" and 10" sweetgum cants to practice sawing and chopping for the forestry conclave.  I may or may not have used it a time or two to saw up some cedar and cherry for, um, research purposes ;D ;D ;D
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Dave Shepard

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Radar67

You got any pictures of that research you speak of? Or should I say the final product of the research? :D :D
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Ironwood

Indiana University of Pennslyvania (IUP) has a bandmill (WM I believe) that their Art/Wood/ Turning program uses. I belive they utilize alot of campus trees for their milling.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Wallys World

Danby S. Lancaster college in Clifton Forge, VA has a AWMV (Woodmizer) LT 300 mill and a forestry technology major. Their sawmilling class is 5 credit hours. www.dl.vccs.edu/
Wood-Mizer LT28G25, Wood-Mizer EG10 Edger, Wallenstein Timber Talon log loader trailer, Wallenstein GX640 wood splitter, Wallenstein WP835 Fire Wood Processor, Kubota BX 22 TLB, JD 445, JD Gator, Home made arch, Stihl 024 Super, MS251, MS311, MS440 Magnum & MS660.

ID4ster

As an alumni of Paul Smith's I'm interested in why the sawmill isn't running. Did they discontinue the major or is it too expensive? If you can find out and post on this forum I'd like to know. Thanks.
Bob Hassoldt
Seven Ridges Forestry
Kendrick, Idaho
Want to improve your woodlot the fastest way? Start thinning, believe me it needs it.

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: Radar67 on February 24, 2009, 07:44:04 PM
You got any pictures of that research you speak of? Or should I say the final product of the research? :D :D

Why yes, my research indicates that cherry and cedar both make fine cabinet woods :D.  As proof of my discovery, I offer to you as evidence:









"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Tom

Quote from: Dave Shepard on February 24, 2009, 07:39:43 PM
You a forester, or a budding politician? :D

We could use some "budding politician, Foresters", Somebody with some sense and real-life experiences.

Foresters need to start speaking up and taking over.  They've been badgered and beat over the head by wackos for too long.  The industry needs them to be pro-active and strong.

Good looking stuff, Dodgey. :)


SwampDonkey

The Maritime College of Forest Technology has a Saw Mill Training centre that was built in 1988 at a cost of over $4M dollars. The UNB woodlot is over 3500 acres, probably the largest woodlot of any Forestry School. Why I mention the two institutions is because the facility and resource is shared. I don't think you'll get much info off Google except some Myspace and personal websites about the University selling land for shopping malls which is contrary to the University's Charter concerning the use of the woodlot. Sometimes you need to do unpopular things to pay the bills unfortunately.   Fredericton sure doesn't need more shopping, but that's about all cities and towns promote in this region for decades. :-\
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

chep

Folks, thanks very much for those quick replies! I appreciate the notes about all the market jazz and costs that I am going to have to take into account. Thanks for the reminder.

ID- Lets say that the forest tech program is going through a little reworking at this time. Fran is retiring this year. Which leaves a large portion of the tech program in a bit of a pickle. It was a poor plan in my opinion to build an entire program around one proffessor (god bless him). He is probably the most wonderful teacher that I have had in college. The knowledge that he has handed me is absolutely irreplacable. wood sciences, sawmilling, kiln operations Welding, small engine repairs and his "lessons in life". However the mill was recently deemed unsafe due a roof failure over the green chain... and  then some other structural faults.  The next reason ithat is is closed is that the insurance provider no longer thought that the manual decking, turning and dogging of logs and cants was safe (cant blame the guy, especially with a newbie on the headsaw). The new dean of forestry a fellow named Andy Egan (the man) is tackling the issue, there are plans for an automated deck system...
Recently we have been running the colleges wood mizer and focusing a lot on recovery and grading instead of production. It is interesting but in my humble opinion cannot replace the saw mill.

Thats all I got for ya, thanks for the input. Keep em coming guys. the forestry forum is much more productive then google!


Riles

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 25, 2009, 01:24:36 PM
The UNB woodlot is over 3500 acres, probably the largest woodlot of any Forestry School.

Clemson's Experimental Forest is 17,500 acres. Clemson is the largest land grant college in the US, with something like 60,000 acres. We'll need to get a Clemson forestry type to speak up about any milling activity since it is a working forest.
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

SwampDonkey

Thanks for posting that Riles. Part of my reason for saying it was in anticipation that someone would chime in with some acreage figures from larger colleges. But for the most part, 3500 acres is a large woodlot compared those at most forestry schools. UNB was a land grant University to, but it has had a couple name changes before it became UNB. It's had a forestry program for over 100 years.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Wenrich

PA College of Technology used to have a mill, but apparently they shut it down.  One of my college buddies used to teach there, and I hired one of their students as a sawyer.  They now have only logging.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

ID4ster

Paul Smith's College has just over 12,000 acres of forest that it manages. So it has plenty of land base to access timber from for a learning mill.

Chep. Who is Frans? Did you mean Hans Michlein? He was just starting when I was there so its not surprising that he'd be about to retire.
Bob Hassoldt
Seven Ridges Forestry
Kendrick, Idaho
Want to improve your woodlot the fastest way? Start thinning, believe me it needs it.

chep

ID- no not hans!  but Fran McAllister! He is the one who built the sawmill where it stands now. He has taught here for over 30 years (i believe). Does his name ring any bells? He is a bit of a legend here

ID4ster

No it doesn't unforunately. He hadn't attained legendary status yet when I was there. Gould Hoyt and Dean Rutherford were the legends when I was there which was just over 30 years ago.
Bob Hassoldt
Seven Ridges Forestry
Kendrick, Idaho
Want to improve your woodlot the fastest way? Start thinning, believe me it needs it.

thompsontimber

Haywood had a nice little mill operation on campus up until a few years ago...despite a lot of support to keep it running, it fell victim to state budget cuts.

PAFaller

University of New Hampshire is updating theirs to be more student friendly. I was a member of one of the last classes to grade lumber off the original mill, an old corley if I remember correctly. Unfortunately the lumber it sawed had some dimension issues, as in not always cutting straight, and was not at all student friendly. The new mill is supposed to have a large enough operator station for a few students to see when and why logs get turned through the sawing process, as well as a heated area to do grading workshops in the winter. Even under cover that mill was pretty cold in Feb and March. Sad thing is that area of NH is venturing further and further away from commercial wood products in my opinion, and I am not sure how much use that sawmill will get in the long run.
It ain't easy...

VanWild

The University of Montana, in Missoula, administers the Lubrecht Experimental Forest.  28,000 acres.  They have a Mobile Demension saw mill.

Brad_S.

Finger Lakes Community College in upstate New York has a Woodmizer.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Woolywolf

Here's an off the wall one: There's a tiny private university, Warren Wilson College, in Asheville, NC, that has its own sawmill. They are big into environmental issues and sustainable forestry and, for what it's worth, consider themselves a complelety "green" college.  Their slogan on their school website is, "we're not for everyone... then again maybe you're not everyone."  Anyway, one of my classmates got her undergraduate degree from there and was telling me about it.  If they want to have a sawmill, more power to them.       

Berkshire

I know it's a little late for your research but I figured I'd chime in anyway since I am a PSC grad from the Forest Tech program in 2000. I can remember going up to PSC in the fall of my senior year in high school for an open house and knowing I wanted to go there for forestry but didn't know what major to choose. After meeting with present students and Fran in the mill I was totally sold on the Tech program and running the mill. At that time I had no Idea that our class would be the first ones ever to saw hardwood on that mill and be the first class in over 10 years to operate the kiln. That summer semester was some of the most enjoyable times operating the mill and kiln. It's really too bad the the mill is shut down. During my time there is when they purchased the WM portable mill which I used quite a bit, it just doesn't compare to the circle mill. I think the mill is a great selling point and practical hands-on aspect to leaning about forestry and forest products.

chep

dont worry, they are not shutting it down, instead it is getting a bit of modernization
there is going to be a sawyers booth, automatic load/dog system (both of these things were found to major liabilities). So its gonna be back on track next year I think...
It was a great experience, and the kiln really opened my eyes to a whole new process that I was unaware of..
thanks for the reply anyhow

NMFP

Just found this topic on the forum..... The PA College of Technology sawmill is alive and well.  The mill was never shut down nor removed but rather replaced in 1999 as an expansion project.    It is a 1997 Edminston fully hydraulic mill with live in feed and out feed, Cornell edger and slab saw. 

We also teach forestry, logging practices and surveying within the curriculum.

What Ron was probably referring to was that the mill was shut down for one semester for the new mill to be installed.  Its an 8000 square foot facility and produces around 12-15 mbf per 8 hour day.


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