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Associates vs. Bachelors degree

Started by chainspinrunner, February 18, 2009, 05:38:31 PM

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chainspinrunner

  Well...I am currently studying forestry at Paul Smith's College in the Adirondack park. I am planning on graduating in the spring with an assoc. degree as a Forest Technician. I have talked to numerous people about my plan. I am looking for input from the real world as if today it IS REALLY WORTH staying another 2 and recieveing two degrees. I have 3 years experience as a cutter and cable skidder operator in Western New York. So I undertsand the markets are down but that is not good enough reason for me to not get back to work. I absolutley love this website and all the information i have recieved from the Forestry Forum. As of right now I plan on taking the Associates and runnin with it. Like one of my most knowledgeable proffesours have said, " A college degree gets your foot in the door, and you take it from there. I am confident i will do well in the field. So let me have it!!! I wanna hear some feedback, the more i talk about it the better decision i will make!    Thanks a lot! 
                             
Grose

Corley5

Stay in school.  A bachelors degree will get you a job faster than an associates.  Time and money well spent  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

WDH

You are young.  By all means, get your BS degree in Forestry.  You will not regret it.  Now is the time.  Do it.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

ARKANSAWYER


  You are right in saying that a degree opens the door.  The bigger the degree the larger the opening in the door.  Most good jobs will require a BS degree and in the long run you will earn more money and have more oppertunities.
  Do a job search right now on line and see how many job openings there are for one degree vs the other.  Look at starting pay and bennies.
  There may not be any cutter or skidder jobs in the woods right now.

  As an employer let me put it to you this way.  A college degree or a military tour does not tell me any thing important but one thing.  The person has the "getty up go" to stay with something till the end.  That in it's self is a good thing.  Someone who can learn, adapt and stay with it is qualities you look for in an employee.

  So my vote is stay in school!
ARKANSAWYER

stumper

I guess it depends on what you want to do.  If you plan on running a chainsaw and skidder, a 2 year degree is fine.  If you think you may want to do some thing else some time in the future get your BS.

I remember my first job working for a paper company.  Worked there a few months and the union went on strike.  They told all of us in forestry we had to work in the mill.  So in we went.  The techs, some having 20 plus years experience, recieved a pay raise to the mill minimum per hour when they worked in the mill.  Think about that, the techs got a raise to match the guy with a GED that pushed a broom in the mill.  Everybody lost in that strike.




chevytaHOE5674

Many state and federal jobs, and even some in private industry are more accessible with a bachelors. At many companies in order to get promoted and move up the ladder a bachelors is the bare minimum.

WDH

Very wise words, Arkansawyer.  It is not the degree itself, but the effort that it represents that speaks to the initiative of the student.  Again, it is a propitious investment for you, so take advantage.

I went on and got my Masters Degree.  Did it help me in my career?  Probably, almost surely, in fact, yes.  Did it enrich me?  You are DanG right!!  The enrichment itself has a big impact on life.  Like I said, "Do It".
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Cedarman

What Arky and WDH said.

Also while getting a BS take some courses in other areas that you like.  Geology goes well with forestry.  Many others do too.  Join clubs.  Get to know your professors, especially those in forestry.  Make sure they know you by name outside of class.  This is the start of networking that you will use later.  Get to know your classmates, you will run into them in the future.  Take a business course.  If you ever are going to run your own business it will be invaluable.  Even if you get out of forestry, the skills you learn now will benefit you in whatever career you might choose.

I once sat on a plane in 1969 coming back from an interview trip and the man setting next to me asked if I knew what placer gold looked like.  I had mentioned that I was getting my geology degree.  I said yes.  He then asked if I would like to accompany them on a trip into the Guatemala highlands in search of gold.  I politely declined.  Just goes to show  what serendipity will lay at your feet.

Be prepared for these types of occurances.  I guarantee they will happen to you.   It is much better to be able to say no than to not be able to say yes.

I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Larry

I have an associates degree...I'm also retired from a small company...you may have heard of them...AT&T.  I made a big mistake by not getting a degree.  Don't be a dummy like me.

Stay in school.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Ron Wenrich

Not only does a higher degree get your foot in the door, but the ceilings are also higher.  My wife has an Associates Degree and 20 years experience and is constantly surpassed by folks with Bachelor degrees or higher with a lot less experience.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Maineloggerkid

Take it from a kid that lost his shot at school-- stay in!!

I graduated in the top of my high school class, but due to certain circumstances, I don't have the option of going back to school anymore, which sucks because it would be a real big help right now. Even just to get in school and wait out the market "storm".
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

Shotgun

I agree, stay in school for at least a 4 year degree.  I'm retired 11 years.  Did fine in life, but have wished I had a masters degree.  I was in managment most of my career.

Good luck in making a decision that you'll be happy with and that will serve you well.

Norm
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

Dan_Shade

it's never too late to go to school, maineloggerkid.  If you want to go to school, make it happen.

I have a few opinions on that, though, I think it's best to get a 4 year degree when young, and to go to school full time.  Night school is good, but it's different.

Often a person with a 2 year degree works for a person with a 4 year degree.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Maineloggerkid

Well, its not just financial issues, there are some other factors at play. But I won't get into details about what or why.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

Dan_Shade

Life has a way of getting complicated sometimes....  but there are always options if you figure out how to take advantage of them
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Maineloggerkid

Ya, but now I think I would have a hard time going back to school even if I found a way. I got a taste off being out and I like it 8)  Even if it is rough sledding right now.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

fat olde elf

1.....Get the 4 year degree
2..... Then decide about a masters degree.  My wife got her masters at age 46....From that point on until retirement she always made more money than I did with just a BS......a lot more.....and I am grateful that she did.........
Cook's MP-32 saw, MF-35, Several Husky Saws, Too Many Woodworking Tools, 4 PU's, Kind Wife.

CLL

Maineloggerkid, let me ask you something. Do you plan on dying tomorrow? I found something out years ago. I wanted to be a vet, and didn't persue it because I was 32, and it would take 4 more years to complete. You know in 4 years I was 36 and still was no better off than I was at 32. Get back in school, I know it will be a struggle, it was for me, 2 kids, wife, night school for 2 years. The only thing I regret was not listening to my dad when he said, " get a education so you don't have to work like I do". I was 30 when I got my degree, if I had listened I would have been 25 with a degree in vet medicine. I''ll give you my dads advice, don't be stupid like me!
Too much work-not enough pay.

LeftyLogger

I just recently (well...going on 4 years ago now) graduated from a Canadian Bachelors degree...and in nearly all the employment positions I've interviewed for (ones I either got or didn't) a bachelor's degree put you into a higher pay scale than someone without...
The best mentors I've ever had have ALWAYS told me to stay on the school path for as long as possible. Knowing what I know now, I'd have to agree...I currently work as a senior forest planner overseas, and I know that having a Masters or even a PHD (if I coulda handled all those years) would definately benefit me in what I'm doing now.

Letters after your name mean alot to those that hire and fire. In most cases, more than years experience, especially for our younger generation (although maybe not so much for our predecesors). Times have changed. And more than that...people look at the ability to stick with school for a long time as a sign of 'stability', meaning you might not be as flighty when they hire you for that senior spot!
Got Wood?

scsmith42

Chainspinrunner, there has been a lot of great advice offered on this string, most of it encouraging you to stay in school.  I'll add one thing to what's been said...

When interviewing candidates, usually a degree was a prerequisite for them even getting an interview.  But once through the interview process, if there were two candidates that came out tied during the interview process, the tie-breaker would be whichever one had the most education.  So, all things being equal I would hire the guy with the bachelors degree over the the guy with the associates.

Maineloggerkid:  I won't pry into your circumstances, but would like to offer the following.  When my wife was a little girl, her dream was to become a veterinarian.  When she attended college after high school, between partying and classes like organic chemistry she lost her confidence to pursue her dream, so she switched her degree plan to pre-law (and ultimately graduated with a 4 year degree). 

Fast forward to her mid thirties.  She still wants to be a vet, but is now a lot more mature and confident.  She chucks everything in her life (except her job), attends night school for three years in order to take all of the pre-med classes, and then leaves her job and goes to vet school for three more years, followed by a one year internship.  She's happy today, but it would have been much easier, as well as less costly, to have stuck it out in her twenties.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

ARKANSAWYER


  The man that Cedarman rode beside on that plane is now a billionaire.  Sometimes in life you have to take a chance.  When you are young and single it does not hurt to venture out sometimes.  But get the school under your belt so when you fall it will give you padding.




                 ;D  ;D  ;D Sorry Cedarman I could not help myself
ARKANSAWYER

shinnlinger

Looks like everyone is rooting for the 4 year degree, and I agree.  I will pick up a bit from what Mainelogger said (paraphrased)...."It would be tough to go back to school"

I agree with that too.  If you do leave school it will be hard to go back, as you will probably have to choose between $$$ and opportunity for more education.  Right now there may be some (but not much) oppurtunity but in 2 years there will hopefully be more and you will have a degree that will make it easier for you to make more $$$.  Even a degree in a field completly unrelated to your job is worth the pay raise to your employer.  It says you were willing to stick it out and get it done.

Also,  if you stay in school now, all the juices will be flowing in the right places.  What I mean by that is I now really have to think about a geometry problem and bust out the paper and calculator for a problem that I could have solved in my head 20 years ago.  You will have an easier time of it if you get it done now.

Good luck.

Oh and I hear the new economic stimulus package has Pell grants to  help you pay for it if $$ is a problem.

Stay in school....
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Corley5

I went to college right of high school and didn't finish then.  Some folks just aren't settled enough to get it done at that time  ;) ;D  I went back later and got a BS in history with geography minor with plans of getting my masters and becoming an instructor at the local community college.  I did do a semester of grad school but then a promising position came up with the MiDNR and I took it thinking it would morph into a full time year round position.  It didn't and has degenerated into a 14 weeks a year gig from a 9 month one that I'm bound to as I need more service time to be vested in the state pension plan.  I took a chance.  I should have stayed in grad school.  A couple years after I made the decision I was looking thru the classifieds while working at a deer check station and there in the help wanted ads was an ad seeking an instructor for American History classes at NCMC  :( ::) ;)  I'm perfectly content doing what I'm doing, firewood, logging and a bit of farming and it would be hard to go back to school now.  If I were to it would be to get a teacher cert and teach at a high school level.  The job with the state was good while it lasted and did allow my wife to get her Masters in Counseling  ;) ;D :) :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

beenthere

Quote..The job with the state was good while it lasted and did allow my wife to get her Masters in Counseling

...which she realized she needed after meeting you... ;D ;D

You made a good case for sticking with school.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ErikC

  I just have to second what everyone else has basically said. It will be over before you know it, and well worth it. Sarah is in the midst of getting her Registered Nursing degree, it would have been a lot easier when she was younger. The longer you wait the harder it will be. I think it goes without saying you're already on the right track, just gotta follow it through.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

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