When to release young whiteoaks

Banjo picker · February 08, 2009, 08:36:50 PM

At about what height would it be best to give a young white oak a clear view of the sky? What would be too soon? I know that it is best to leave some smaller trees on the side to keep it form making too many branches down low, but how much space does one need? Tim

WDH · February 08, 2009, 11:41:58 PM

Oak needs partial shade to regenerate. Once the new seedling are up to the point that they look like they will survive (about 3 to 5 years), they can handle the light. If they are up over head tall, I would release them.

Lanier_Lurker · February 09, 2009, 07:01:07 AM

I learned that lesson about shade the hard way. Seems to work the same way with hickories.

Speaking of white oaks, I spent about an hour performing "surgical extractions" and potting of a couple of white oak seedlings yesterday (I should have taken some pictures). These little fellas were in locations that doomed them to failure - but I just could not bear killing them. One was woven into and back out of a chain link fence (again, DanG it - pictures would have been good).

It is amazing how the tap root is so much larger than the trunk on these things - in both length and diameter. My goal was to perform complete bare-root extractions, and I was able to do it finally. I used a trenching shovel, an ice pick, and a lot of patience.

The tap roots were 18 to 24 inches long , and about 1/2 inch in diameter. The "trees" were much smaller. They have been potted in some of my new 30 inch deep Treepots from www.stuewe.com. I figure these seedlings were at least 4 years old.

I could however provide pictures of the finished product, and will try do that. I have not posted any pictures for a while.

Banjo picker · February 09, 2009, 08:52:33 AM

Thanks for the reply, How about another question? ;D There are some whiteoaks in my woods that should have been released some time ago but wern't. They are tall and spindley some 15 feet high or even better. It they were released now, what would happen? I would think that when we get any snow or ice they will be ruined, am I right? Tim

woodtroll · February 09, 2009, 09:59:28 AM

Release them. They are just getting ready to kick it in gear.
White oak seedlings can sit in the understory for a while as seedlings, ten - fifteen years and still just a few feet tall. When they get more light they start growing height. When they reach that 12'- 20' mark they need plenty of light to survive.

WDH · February 09, 2009, 11:15:32 AM

As soon as they are firmly established with that deep taproot, the sooner they can be released, the better.

OneWithWood · February 09, 2009, 11:39:45 AM

Give some thought to shading the mid story trees on the south side. Too much sunlight on the south side of a white oak might result in epicormic branching that will rapidly degrade the saw log.

I am not a forester so take any advice I give with a large grain of rock salt

Norm · February 09, 2009, 03:25:32 PM

As a follow up question, I've got some white oaks in containers growing in full sun. Would I be better of to have them in a shady spot?

WDH · February 09, 2009, 06:00:35 PM

Once they are germinated, I don't think so. In the woods, full sun stimulates the competition and that negatively impacts the little oaks trying to make a place in the sun. It is all about controlling the competition until the little oaks get a foothold. Otherwise, down here, the little sweetgums have a party to the detriment of the little oaks ;D.

SwampDonkey · February 09, 2009, 06:05:29 PM

I understand what your saying about releasing the oaks, I think. You mean removing or reducing the over topping vegetation right? Once you do that, wait 3 years and do a pre-commercial thinning as a follow up by spacing the stems about 7 feet apart. Minimum height should be around 18 feet. We do that here on clear cut sites that grow back natural. The cut off for early spacing is around 30 feet in hardwood and aspen here. Any taller in excessive thick stands and they won't stand, too spindly. In the case they are left too long it's best to leave them alone and let the strong express dominance to thin themselves naturally. Takes a lot longer to grow though. Maple, beech, yellow birch at 10,000+ stems per ace is excessively thick. Beech and yellow birch can be horribly thick on some sites. I love thinning yellow birch, like in a factory where they make candy canes with all that mint smell rising off the stumps. And it's so nice cutting. ;D

woodtroll · February 09, 2009, 06:09:36 PM

I have never been lucky enough to have 10000 white oak per acre.

SwampDonkey · February 09, 2009, 06:16:44 PM

:D :D :D Believe me you don't want to. :D It's amazing how much more shade tolerant a beech is than an oak. Beech is the worst cursed stuff to thin, like barbed wire and hard hard hard, I can imagine white oak would be real hard to. I'll cut every darn beech down to leave a yellow birch. The dang beech are going to die anyway.

Banjo picker · February 09, 2009, 07:22:11 PM

I have been and will continue to release as many as I can. From the comments here it seems I have been doing a pretty good job. I take my little sthil with me every time I go to the back and when I spot a little whiteoak I do what I can for it. I just don't know if I will ever get all that I want done in my lifetime. I'm 52 and have over 100 acres to get ship shape, but it sure is fun trying. ;D As SD has commeted on those Dang beech are a real problem here. It seems there may be 10000 of those little rascles per acre. >:( Thats where I get in a delima with One with Woods thought about leaving some shade on the south side-- its usually a beech. Decisions decisions. And as a side point to Norm, I have a little white oak growing in the kitchen. I didn't mean to but I put a few white oak acorns in a pot wraped in a paper towel to keep them damp before I could plant them, and one of them pushed down though the paper towel an came up. Its about 8 or 10 inches tall with 4 pretty little leaves it will get a special place to give life a try. Tim

SwampDonkey · February 09, 2009, 07:27:11 PM

I've got a bur oak I will be potting next month. Hopefully it will take. The one I germinated last year died within a week of birth. They are hard to come by in these parts, I have a couple trees I go to in the woods each fall to check for acorns. ;D

woodtroll · February 09, 2009, 10:09:02 PM

I have been cursed with 10000 beech or so it seems. I considered them a weed that can easily become a dominate factor in a stand. I tend to kill all but a very few.
If your oak trees are only 15' tall your risk of epidermic branching would likely be low. The tree is still just getting going and developing a main stem. If the tree is 30' it may be more of a factor. When I release a hardwood such as an oak I look at the crown and open it up on at least 3 sides. A general guideline would be release the crown the dbh of the tree in feet. A 6 inch tree would have its crown released 6 feet on at least three sides.
Oak always before beech.

Banjo picker · February 09, 2009, 10:33:24 PM

Quote from: woodtroll on February 09, 2009, 10:09:02 PM
A general guideline would be release the crown the dbh of the tree in feet. A 6 inch tree would have its crown released 6 feet on at least three sides.

That seems like a good rule of thumb, and easy to rember as well. Tim