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Heli Loggers

Started by Jeff, February 06, 2009, 03:46:08 PM

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Jeff

Did anyone watch that last night on TLC?  I think it was the first episode of a new series and I enjoyed it. They were cutting some huge cedar in B.C. and flying it out 6 miles to the landing. The episode started out with a couple guys hiking in to find the tract marked by Government Timber Surveyors where they had to build a heli pad so a smaller chopper could fly them in and out of the job. 

http://tlc.discovery.com/tv/heli-loggers/heli-loggers.html

Tune in Thursdays @ 10/9 C! Check the schedule for airings.

Episode 1: The Big Wood
Gord and his team of tree climbers begin one of the biggest heli-logging jobs in Canadian history: climbing and topping a grove of prized cedar trees and using a $15,000 per hour Chinook helicopter to fly them.

Episode 2: The Greenhorn and the Beast
The crew has one week to prepare 400 trees before the heavy-lift helicopter's arrival. But after one climber gets hurt and another quits, an already difficult job gets even tougher.

Episode 3: Widowmakers
Gord's crew is set to climb a grove of cedar trees, but after a fellow logger is nearly killed by a falling branch "Widowmaker", they take whatever steps they can, from the superstitious to the practical, to make sure they stay safe and on schedule.

Episode 4: Heavy Lifting Required
The testosterone filled world of heli-logging gets a new look when Gord and his crew team up with a female heavy-lift helicopter pilot in order to harvest a block of trees.

Episode 5: The New Greenhorn
Gord hires a new Greenhorn to help work on an eco-sensitive logging job. But when the job starts to fall behind it becomes clear this is one hire he and the team may regret.

Episode 6: Racing to the Finish
The Clowhom job continues with Robyn leading the charge to finish the job on time and without disturbing the eco-system below. They work feverishly to complete the job and fly home, which despite many obstacles they manage to do. As soon as the get home, Gord gets a call from the Heavy-Lift helicopter company. Because of helicopter scheduling needs, instead of the helicopter arriving in 3 weeks to yard the Clowhom trees as planned, it is coming that very day. Gord knows that you are only as good as your last job and he does not want the helicopter to work without someone from his team there. Robyn and Cleaver hurriedly fly back to Clowhom to make sure that the crucial standing stem process gets done, and done well.

Episode 7: Big Wood, Big Finish
The enormous Brittain River job proposed a life-altering question for Gord Closson, "Can SCSS make it as a successful logging company with a conscience?" They have one more block to finish before Gord answers that question. Due to the traveling distances that the helicopters have to fly, the personal financial risk and the intricacies of logging big wood with minimal damage to the forest, this has been the biggest job for Gord yet. Supervisor Aaron Steen heads in to build the final landing pad, making it possible to log this last block. Unfortunately, the boys get off to a rough start. They are shut down on the hill because of helicopter problems. Then Gord and the team are forced to make up for the lost time in order to close the job out. In the end, Gord goes back to the drop zone, and must answer the big question as to whether the Brittain River job was overall as big a success as he hoped.

Episode 8: Gord to the Rescue
Another logging company has clear-cut an area, causing an environmental problem. They have left a huge area of trees exposed to wind, which not only can cause environmental problems for thousands of trees, but also could lead to eco-contamination of a stream that serves as the water source for the nearby town of Sooke. Gord and his team must Windfirm (climb and top trees to displace wind exposure and keep limbs from falling into the stream) the exposed trees. But when they start to fall behind, which could cause Gord to lose money, Gord has to put on the spurs and try to get them back on track.

Episode 9: Here Comes the Snow
Gord and his crew work year round. That means in the cold, the rain, and even the snow. And now there is plenty of it. They are in the middle of one of the biggest snow falls in Vancouver Island history and Gord, Kurtis, Robyn, and The Beast have a job to climb and top 50 trees in just two days. The only question is will they be able to do it?

Episode 10: The Grande Finale
Gord, The Beast, and Robyn have just 2 days to climb, top and jig, a block of trees before the Vertol helicopter arrives. Again, they are fighting cold temperatures and mounds of snow in order to get the job done.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Jeff on February 06, 2009, 03:46:08 PM
Did anyone watch that last night on TLC?  I think it was the first episode of a new series and I enjoyed it. They were cutting some huge cedar in B.C. and flying it out 6 miles to the landing. The episode started out with a couple guys hiking in to find the tract marked by Government Timber Surveyors where they had to build a heli pad so a smaller chopper could fly them in and out of the job. 

Been there, done that. Only it ain't government, it's consultants on contract. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tillaway

SD, you had to do that. :o I'm sorry, glad I missed it. ;D
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

SwampDonkey

A good many of those heli logging sites got turned down after the goobermint spent money to lay it all out for sale including: cruise, marked falling boundaries, pre-harvest prescriptions and site class, creek surveys, gully assessments, and landing sites.  Most of the time we had different divisions within the firm for different tasks. Quite often folks rotated jobs so they were not stuck doing one thing all the time. Toward the end we finally convinced the higher ups that if you lay out the wood, you cruise it , you design the plans and prescriptions and maps instead of bringing people from outside into the middle of a project. It was just more efficient in getting the job done.

It wasn't all that difficult to find the blocks, the layout guys and the heli pilots that flew them in and out of the swamps took the fallers in. There were well marked trails from the helipads in the swamps to the blocks. The layout folks went in with the crew most times to show them sites for logging heli pads if a natural ground break was not sufficient to land the crew on in the middle of the block. Usually a Jet Ranger or Hughes 500 was the taxi, better to have the Hughes 500 (the "angry egg" we called it) more lift power. ;) I saw many Heli pads that the Jet Ranger never had enough guts to haul more than passengers, plus the pilot.

Did I ever say how much I hate post harvest surveys in those %$#&%@ heli logged sites. Swimming in 4 feet of slash. Yes dispersed, but them big limbs cross piled ain't fun. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tillaway

Those 500's sound like a jet powered weed eater.  Never liked the Rangers, the difference between a 500 and a Ranger; 500's have 4 wheel drive.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Raider Bill

Just a dumb question but how do they make $$$?

Assuming they are cutting the same kind of tree anyone else is and have the same overhead plus the chopper expense with such a small amount of timber as opposed to the AXE men type operation where thay seem to bring out way more logs?

Boy that doesn't even make sense to me. Wish I had paid more attention in english class......................
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Jeff

Last night, they were not cutting the same kind of tree everyone else was. They were cutting high value timber. They said the chopper cost 10,000 an hour.  At least one of the trees they cut was valued at 50,000. 

What was unique for me watching last nights show was how they did it. Trees that figured less then the total lifting weight capabilities (20 some thousand lbs, I forget exactly) of the helicopter were not cut down. They were climbed, limbed and topped. Then the cutter would come down and make what you would normally call felling cuts, but these were not. They cut the tree enough to keep it standing, but enough that when the helicopter grapple latched onto it, it could be snapped from the stump and flown out full stem. 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Raider Bill

I missed the show but have it on DVR for later.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

SwampDonkey

Yes, Raider Bill they are high value trees. Back in the mid 90's a 200 + foot sitka was a $20,000 tree. If they are logging yellow cypress (Alaska Cedar), up in the mountains, they are gold and mostly export. People were cutting shake blocks back then where I worked up on the Charlottes. They were $800 per m3 of cedar / cypress, lifted by chopper. A m3 is around 39 inches per side. I seem to remember the bundles were 8 feet high and 8 feet long, my memory is kind of foggy on those dimensions. They were scrounging this stuff off old clear cuts. Those Islands are north of Vancouver Island and the same forest region. Only no fir of any ilk on the Charlottes and a lot nicer walking unless down on the coastal plains with all that darn salal vines. Hardly a devil's club though, anywhere up there.  :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Jeff on February 06, 2009, 04:53:09 PM

Trees that figured less then the total lifting weight capabilities (20 some thousand lbs, I forget exactly)

Yup, 20,000 lbs.

As to the rest, it might be some "show boating" involved, not sure. I'm not sure Work Safe BC is gonna like that snatch and run technique. I've never seen that done, usually a support chopper helps bundle a load that will be heli-craned later to the landing. But if these were red cedar, they can be 12 feet through on the but, so I don't know how long that is for green red cedar to be under 20,000 lbs. Well I can estimate it,  an 8 foot (mid diameter) on a 16 foot log is almost 24,000 lbs according to the forum toolbox. Sounds like fun, as long as someone else is doing it. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Reddog


thecfarm

Marked it on the calendar and still forgot it.  >:(
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Reddog


WDH

I found the show interesting and I plan to watch it next week.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

ohsoloco

Caught some of that last night  :)  If I recall correctly the helicopter ran $15,000 an hour, and could haul 22,500lbs.  The break even haul was around 13,500lbs.  Even thouse logs from that huge cedar were well below the limit, and some of the others were in the 11,000lb. range.  Didn't catch the end, but I assume it was profitable  ???

semologger

I liked it i caught the 11oclock show. Enjoyable watching something different. I fell out of my deer stand this year and its only a 14 footer. No way am i climbing a tree like them guys. Well me and the stand both came down the same time.

L. Willey

Quote from: Raider Bill on February 06, 2009, 04:45:59 PM
Just a dumb question but how do they make $$$?

Assuming they are cutting the same kind of tree anyone else

yes they are cutting the same species as anyone else. 
looked like hemlock, douglas fir, white fir, and red cedar. 

as to how they make money, im not sure.  maybe since theyre creaming it, they dont loose time messing with the little stuff.  but it still seems like the profit margin would be pretty close.

semologger

One tree $50,000 dollars sounds pretty good to me. Plus how many thousand dollar trees were the rest. Higher grade timber than Axmen i think. ;)

WH_Conley

After watching "Saw for Hire", I was really impressed with these guys.
Bill

Paul_H

Neither the Douglas Fir or the Red Cedar would be that valuable.A high grade Fir log was only $220-250 per cubic metre a few years ago(2004) I'm out of the loop since we sold out but prices are still in a slump.
Heli logging done around here in the past couple of years was high graded,leaving Hemlock and lesser grades of Douglas Fir and Red Cedar to rot in the bush.Heli logging is fun to watch but I think in most cases,conventional logging is a better way for communities,workers and forest.We had some areas in our chart that were considered heli logging only because of access and esthetics.The pros and cons were weighed and we decided to go ahead and have the area layed out for highlead.Our road costs were reasonable in spite of the steep rocky terrain and the strictly enforced forest practices code(in 1997)
The pros to us was our base crew of 15 men all living in the area,were able to work a few extra months as opposed to a out of town crew coming in and out in 2 weeks or so.Another was access for our silviculture work involved crews with pickups instead of the high cost of flying in with choppers.Same with future layout by the engineers.
Blending conventional logging and heli works good for the bigger companies to play around with the numbers to lower stumpage appraisals.There are places that heli logging is one of the best ways to access out of reach wood but like anything,it can be abused.

I've been around here a long time and can and will show where sound fell and bucked is laying in the bush to rot in heli blocks because of economics.Last year we built road through a older heli block to develop highlead blocks well beyond the heli blocks.It wasn't rough roadbuilding ground either.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

sawguy21

TLC was advertising it all week but the local provider put something else on in that slot last night.  >:(  Here, the mills pay taxes or stumpage on each tree cut. Heli logging only pays because they get a lower rate than ground logging but they still have to really hustle. The turn has to be under 3 minutes so they were not flying 6 miles. Still, it is the only way to harvest on very steep slopes (that is not fun) or when there are serious environmental issues like riparian management areas i.e. fish bearing streams. If everything goes well and the weather holds, a chopper will out produce a skidder or high lead operation with far less impact on the surrounding ground.
The company I worked for did some on the coast but they went in to pick up the smaller stuff the big boys left behind. Our ships, Sikorski SI61's, could only pull half as much as a Skycrane. Most of our work was in smaller timber, the big kids could not pull enough in one pick to make it pay.
Swamp referred to 'snatch and run'. It is referred to as selective stem logging and usually involves taking out a single high grade tree in a mixed stand. Diseased trees can also be removed this way but it is a very expensive process due to low production. Vancouver Island Helicopters developed a really neat grapple for this.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Paul_H

Heli logging was paying twentyfive cent(two bit) stumpage compared to conventional that was paying an average of $10 per cubic metre(our numbers)

QuoteStill, it is the only way to harvest on very steep slopes .

Roy,
in theory,that is what heli logging is supposed to be for,logging on steep inaccessible ground but it's being abused. Like I mentioned in my last post we are building roads now through ground that was heli logged 5 years ago.Those pics I posted a couple years ago of heli logging was not far below the road we were on.I know the guys that fell it and they walked in and out.They were wondering why it wasn't roaded.These guys have been around the block a few times and understand what kind of ground it takes for conventional.
The trouble with high grading,apart from wasting a valuable resource is it can make it uneconomical for future harvesting.

My dad told me they saw the same thing in the early 1950's when the railroad logging shows moved out.Before they left,they reached way up the hills with the cold deckers,sometimes even a double swing to the trackside so when the truck loggers moved in,they had miles of "dead"ground to build road through.

Heli has it's place,I'll say it again and the crews are talented and organised.My issue isn't with the crews it's with the managers in the public and private sector.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

I tried to find the blocks I mentioned with Google Earth and link them here but the photos appear to be at least 2 years old.A few of the older blocks that are now greened up show up as freshly logged.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

SwampDonkey

The blocks we marked out were over 65 % and if not steep, quite gullied and often boulder fields. Many blocks were later 'deferred' after all the cards were in because they were deemed too sensitive a site to log. They all had large timber though, consisting of cedar, amabalis fir (pacific silver or sometimes known as balsam), sitka, and hemlock, sometimes cypress at the top, but mostly below the cypress tree line. Just as logging has created some waist in the woods at times, I've seem huge cypress bolts 3 feet on the but left in the woods after 'destructive sampling' the Ministry of Forests contracted. Beautiful cypress logs just laying there.  :-X >:(

One assessment is residue and waste surveys on the cut blocks. They have a formula I think they base on the cruise and scale and apply it to any merchantable timber left on the block. I remember one big spruce found near a landing one time represented $10,000 in fines for waste. We even had to root through burn piles for waste. It wasn't so bad on yarded sites, but heli was nasty. Thank goodness I only did the yarded sites and not too far to walk off a road.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

snowman

The show did a good job of capturing the financial stress involved. It cost so much to fly logs that every second counts, everyone works at a dead run. The owners always at the landing wringing his hands and sweating bulletts. One thing made me scratch my head though. Why did they leave the 3000 lb grapples on to get the logs on the ground? Seems if they choked those logs they could have risked stretching them out a few feet. Moday morning quarterbacking, great fun. :D

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