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Choking Logs

Started by GreenhornChoker, February 03, 2009, 02:39:22 PM

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GreenhornChoker

i'm new to logging and i need some help.

I'm going to be choking logs for my friend's buisness and i need some advice to make sure i don't perish during the process.

missourilogger is my friend and hes going to teach me how to do it. He knows what hes doing but i still would like some help.

We are skiddin logs with a tractor.

any advice? :-\

thanks
Long Live Food!

missourilogger

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and here

beenthere

Welcome to the forum.
A little about what you mean by "skiddin with a tractor" would help.

Tractor size, 3pt, winch, terrain ???

Pic of tractor would help.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

missourilogger

Quote from: beenthere on February 03, 2009, 04:50:07 PM
Welcome to the forum.
A little about what you mean by "skiddin with a tractor" would help.

Tractor size, 3pt, winch, terrain ???

Pic of tractor would help.


its a 3 pt deutz. I think it got 125hp. I am not for sure though. Our terrain is a little hilly.
What we use is a set of heavy duty log tongs or a 20-30 foot long chain if we need to pull one out of the creek. Every now and then we will use a cable choker but we keep breakin them.
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missourilogger

i think it is a 2x4 dx 60-90 some where in there i would get a pic but it is at our site
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stonebroke

How big are your cable chokers and how do you break them?

Stonebroke

thecfarm

GreenhornChoker,welcome to the forum.You said missourlogger knows what he's doing.My advice would be to listen to what he says and do what he does.   ;D  Are you just helping or getting paid?
I'm curious on the breaking of the cable chokers too.I have never used them,but have seen them.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

customdave

Boy I'm courious too, are these regular logging chokers with the steel slip yoke on the end? I use mine behind front wheel assist tractor & when the tractor can't pull I hook up to D-6 Cat , I've never broke one !     customdave
Love the smell of sawdust

Bro. Noble

Chokers are 1/2 in or 9/16 in in our area.  We replace ours fairly often because of kinking (makes them hard to get under a log)  or broken wires that make them painful to handle.  We have a 20,000 # winch and have been able to tear up lots of stuff,  but have never broken a chocker.   Perhaps you are using them in a way they aren't meant to be used.
milking and logging and sawing and milking

missourilogger

he is getting paid.
thesize tractor we are using is a dx 120 2x4

the chokers are homade ones, i think they are 3/8 or 5/8 i aint for sure
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wi woodcutter

I would get rid of those home made cables before someone gets hurt or killed. You can get chokers from bailey's for a good price. Saving a couple dollars on chokers is not worth get hurt over.  3/8" sounds real small to me, I think the ones we have are at least 1/2". A snapping cable can hurt you real bad, try to stay safe.
2-066's ms660 034av 076av huskee 27ton splitter CB5036
A guard dog needs food, water, shelter, walking and training.
My Smith & Wesson only needs a little oil!

Ron Wenrich

We gave up on cable chokers years ago.  Most guys still running any type of choker system has gone to chains. 

The drawback of chains is that they aren't rigid enough to put under the log.  There is a piece that is made to put under the log and pull the chain through.  I think its made from 1/4" round stock and has a hook on the end.  Bailey probably sells them, or you can make one.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

york

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on February 04, 2009, 05:34:10 AM
We gave up on cable chokers years ago.  Most guys still running any type of choker system has gone to chains. 

The drawback of chains is that they aren't rigid enough to put under the log.  There is a piece that is made to put under the log and pull the chain through.  I think its made from 1/4" round stock and has a hook on the end.  Bailey probably sells them, or you can make one.

I use chain,with the 5/16 in. dia. rod on end,about foot long-chain on other end has a hook called a "pewag" i think what they call it...got them from northeast imp-not cheap,if you loose one you will be looking for it..
Albert

snowman

I have a 3 ft length of rebar with a slight bend in it and a couple of chain links welded to the end. On stubborn logs i hook chain to it and push it through. I keep it painted hunter orange. ;D

Norm

I use chain chokers that have a long metal rod on the end. I've never broke one but have bent the rods. I've also used the cable chokers and did not care for them. Between frayed ends and one snapping and lashing back I keep them hung on the mill shed as decoration.

GreenhornChoker

Quote from: thecfarm on February 03, 2009, 07:55:02 PM
GreenhornChoker,welcome to the forum.You said missourlogger knows what he's doing.My advice would be to listen to what he says and do what he does.   ;D  Are you just helping or getting paid?
I'm curious on the breaking of the cable chokers too.I have never used them,but have seen them.

yea i am getting paid but i'm not sure how much yet.
Long Live Food!

Dale Hatfield

I use cable chokers on the skidder and chains on the dozer. A chain choker system is great on rocky ground and on small poles.
We carry a hooker with us  bendable rod with small upward bent hook on the end. Push it under hook end of chain and pull it through .
Cable chokers can be a bugger sometimes to get under a log.  Have to dig  scratch poke and pull.
Chain chokers must be bought from logging supply as regular chain will snap.
Paint em baby blue as they tend to get lost or left behind.
Game Of Logging trainer,  College instructor of logging/Tree Care
Chainsaw Carver

Maineloggerkid

If they are well kept and replaced when needed, I actually prefer cable chokers anyday.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

ErikC

  Cable is the norm around here. Even on huge logs, with the right size cable, they don't break. For safety they need replaced when they get frayed a little. How you hook them up makes a difference on how long they last. I never broke one that was in good shape, I have broke chain.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

Maineloggerkid

Ya, I don't know anyone around here that uses chinas on a skidder. I have them on my tractor, but only because they came with it.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

GreenhornChoker

does anyone have or know of any good vids on how to use log tongs?
Long Live Food!

missourilogger

Quote from: GreenhornChoker on February 04, 2009, 07:16:42 PM
does anyone have or know of any good vids on how to use log tongs?
i will show you
i Was here


and here

york

Albert

missourilogger

Quote from: york on February 04, 2009, 07:45:39 PM
Quote from: missourilogger on February 04, 2009, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: GreenhornChoker on February 04, 2009, 07:16:42 PM
does anyone have or know of any good vids on how to use log tongs?
i will show you

You guys are funny...
hey i take them as compliment (i think thats how you spell it) :D :D :D :D :D :D
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thecfarm

This is what I finally made up,





I got sick of digging under the log with a near by stick.I like the curve I put on it.I think it's easier than a straight one.This is a little more than 2 feet,probaly closer to 2½ feet long.Made out of ¼ inch round stock and a chain link.I made it up last fall.Needs some red paint on it,so I don't lose it.





This is showing the double ended snap hook.I have 10 chains and I find having one of these is easier than having one on each chain.Usually if I'm using more than 3 chains,the tress are small enough to be moved to get a chain under them.

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ron Wenrich

If you cut an opening in the chain link, I don't think you would need the snap clip.  I would take about 1/4 of the link out.  It would make hooking and unhooking of the chain a lot easier. 

Most of the commercial ones have a loop on the end for a handle.  But, even a T would work pretty good.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

thecfarm

A good idea.  8)  I welded a place like you mentioned closed.  Yes,you are right,but I hang it on my guard to the winch. I doubt it would come unhooked,but with a snap I know it won't,was my way of thinking.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

shinnlinger

Well now that the choker thing is figured out, how you gunna skid the logs?  Just wraping the other end of the chain around your drawbar will give you really dirty logs which will dull bands/blades/chainsaws real quick.  I welded up a "plate" like deal for my 3pt which works very well for me by letting the 3pt raise the log and your tractor is big enough to handle most logs I would think, but you need to design it in such a way that you can't get the front of he log hung up while you are skidding it.  You can flip the tractor over on you if you do.  A big arch is even better becausue you dont skid the logs at all.  Several nice arches on this site and some threads on skidding with a tractor dos and dont's
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

missourilogger

Quote from: shinnlinger on February 05, 2009, 10:27:17 PM
Well now that the choker thing is figured out, how you gunna skid the logs?  Just wraping the other end of the chain around your drawbar will give you really dirty logs which will dull bands/blades/chainsaws real quick.  I welded up a "plate" like deal for my 3pt which works very well for me by letting the 3pt raise the log and your tractor is big enough to handle most logs I would think, but you need to design it in such a way that you can't get the front of he log hung up while you are skidding it.  You can flip the tractor over on you if you do.  A big arch is even better becausue you dont skid the logs at all.  Several nice arches on this site and some threads on skidding with a tractor dos and dont's
we have heavy duty bale spears that has a ball on the top of it so he can pick the log up.and if you cant get a chain under it he backs up into the log and spears then lifts it up so you can throw the chain under it it works pretty well actually. I finally figured out what our tractor is its a duetz DX120 2wheel drive with a three point and no loader
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Woodhog

How do the logs get in the creek????

missourilogger

Quote from: Woodhog on February 06, 2009, 12:34:06 AM
How do the logs get in the creek????
if they're leaning to heavy to wedge them over we just drop it in the creek (if there is one).
i Was here


and here

Chuck White

Quote from: GreenhornChoker on February 04, 2009, 07:16:42 PM
does anyone have or know of any good vids on how to use log tongs?

There are two kinds of tongs for logging.

One type is for loading and the other type is for skidding!

I believe the skidding tongs have a ring to attach the chain/cable to and the loading tongs have a grab-hook to attach the chain/cable to.


Chuck
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Ron Wenrich

Quote from: missourilogger on February 06, 2009, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Woodhog on February 06, 2009, 12:34:06 AM
How do the logs get in the creek????
if they're leaning to heavy to wedge them over we just drop it in the creek (if there is one).

Do you drag the tops of the trees out?  Working around creeks can be a tricky problem, and there are some laws you might want to check up on.  Each state is different.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Woodhog

Quoteif they're leaning to heavy to wedge them over we just drop it in the creek (if there is one).

Wow if you did that around here the Dept. Of Environment would be after you fast...

We cant get any closer than about 66 feet to a "watercourse" with cutting and the machine
cannot even be run within about 16 feet from any "watercourse" trees or no trees.

They claim a watercourse is anything that water runs in that is at least 20 inches wide...

I could see the big smiles on their faces if they walked in and found me with a tree felled into a brook, tractor backed into the brook chaining up the butt...

Another day of no profit....!!! :D

missourilogger

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on February 06, 2009, 11:02:47 AM
Quote from: missourilogger on February 06, 2009, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Woodhog on February 06, 2009, 12:34:06 AM
How do the logs get in the creek????
if they're leaning to heavy to wedge them over we just drop it in the creek (if there is one).

Do you drag the tops of the trees out?  Working around creeks can be a tricky problem, and there are some laws you might want to check up on.  Each state is different.
i cut the tops up for firewood
i Was here


and here

Ron Scott

Mignt be a good idea to review the following for Missouri.

http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/documents/441.pdf
~Ron

missourilogger

i hope this clears up everything about the creek thing .we only fell 1-4 trees in the creek. but the creek was dry so we just bucked them and got them out. and cleaned up all the brush we didnt have to have the tractor in there though because the butt is usually right there on the bank so you can just hook up and drag it out. we dont cut the trees that are right on the edge we cut the ones that are 10-15' away so we can hook up to the butts.
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and here

John Woodworth

Check out the three point hitch grapple from Baileys.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

tyb525

Just gonna put in my $.02 (for the economy's sake).

I use a big 1/2" chain (not sure where we got it, we've always had it) to "choke" the log with (wrap it around and hook it tightly onto itself). I have a International 656 (not for use on hilly terrain!) that works great in fairly flat woods (it has plenty of power!). I have a homemade crane attachment for the rear receiver (not sure what the real name is, its not a 3pt, it's the quick connect thing).
For skidding logs I attach it low on the crane. For arranging them in my "log yard"  and if I need to raise the ends up high, I can hook it out towards the end. It comes in handy for lots of other lifting jobs too.



If I'm careful, I can pick shorter (<10') logs completely off the ground by backing up till the crane is touching the logs, lowering it all the way, and hooking it up. When I lift it back up, the butt end stays against the crane and the other end will come off the ground. This is useful again for moving logs around the log yard and mill.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

wi woodcutter

That is a fast hitch on that 656 or some people call it a 2 pt. hitch.
2-066's ms660 034av 076av huskee 27ton splitter CB5036
A guard dog needs food, water, shelter, walking and training.
My Smith & Wesson only needs a little oil!

tyb525

Thanks that's the name I was looking for  :)
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Chico

good advice on using GOOD chokers or chains  I've got a scar about 6 in long the middle of my underneaty down my cheek from a choker new but too small You have to have a weak point true enough but let it be you stopping the tractor not a cble hanging getting hung and eating someone up they can move fast and go a long way Ron is also right about regs on streams A lot of the time the feds can be in on that one  Just Friendly advice
Chico
My Daughter My sailor MY HERO God Bless all the men and Women fighting for us today If you see one stop and thank them

racer9

Just be careful using the tractor for skidding. Alot of rollovers happen using a tractor in the woods for skidding.
Husky 345, Husky 55 rancher, Husky 372xp, Husky 288, Husky 395xp

tyb525

Good advice racer, I only use my tractor on fairly level ground. Make sure to watch out for stumps, etc, that could catch the logs. Also a good idea to keep the leading ends off the ground.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

ironmule2004

I use a 540B Grapple skidder but recently had to winch out some logs down in a creek .  We could only pull1 at a time because all we have is a big hook on our cable.  I was wanting to get some chokers for the next time we need to do this.  I thought maybe the chain chokers would be easier as far as keeping them in a toolbox or the truck bed or something.  Where are the cable chokers usually kept on a skidder when not in use?

Maineloggerkid

THey are attatched to slides on the cable. When you unhook them from a log they just hang there on their own. Most people make a system for hanging them up on the back of the skidder, because if they are dragging when you back up, they can snap if caught under the tire. You can sometimes get around this by winching the cable up higher, but it will happen sooner or later.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

lonewolf

 One thing I was taught with cable chokers is to push it through from the side you are pulling from. It allows the chokers to flex in the slide/ferrule and helps to keep them from getting twisted and frayed. I have never used chain chokers they may be the ticket in rocky ground but I wouldn't want to drag them to far uphill.
"EARTH FIRST"  WE'LL LOG THE OTHER PLANETS LATER

Stephen Alford

Hey Greenhornchoker, hope all is going well. Sometimes when the chokers are older and worn, it helps if once the end of the choker has been hooked in the slider to jam in a twig or sliver to take up the slack. That way if the tension slacks off for some reason it is less likely to unhook.  :)

logon

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