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tree climbing equipment vs. pole vs. rock

Started by rebocardo, December 30, 2008, 07:59:56 PM

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rebocardo

A question about tree climbing equipment vs. pole vs. rock.

I have been thinking about learning to climb trees because even for $25 an hour, I can't find anyone local that is reliable. Guy I was working with broke his ankle on his other job (stepping off a bus in the rain   ;)  ) and I need to get a tree down I rather not drop.

So, I figure this might be a good time to learn.

I see real saddles are real expensive  :D and not really available, used, in my size (waist 44), though a full body harness looks like it might do since it has attachments where I could use a flip line.

I guess the main use for a saddle is to lean back while making cuts, though the full body harness looks useful if you ever take a real slip and have to depend on your line as a fall arrest or for bucket work.

So, to my untrained eyes  ;) the main difference between the full harness for rock climbing and the tree harness is the wider back support for leaning back while making cuts.

If I do this, I do plan on getting a flip line with a fabric covered steel cable and using a 1/2" rope for help getting up into the tree and maybe for a fall arrest/backup.

I do not mind flying and heights, I just hate ladders, but, I hate being poor so I am wondering if I can overcoming a swaying tree if I have enough clean underwear  :D

Not that good with knots, though I did show one climber that took a "course" how to tie knots by reading his own book   ;)

Any one book that teaches tree climbing that you would recommend?  Hopefully carried by Bailey's?

Rocky_J

Tree Climber's Companion.

Way too much for me to even begin explaining here. Get that book (It's small and inexpensive, but an excellent starting point) and read it before trying to get into a bunch of technical discussion here. Lots of good info that you might get on the forums will be ignored or misunderstood if you're not familiar with basic terms and methods.

Best of luck to you and don't get in too big of a hurry. It's too easy to get yourself into a situation where you'll never have a chance for a do-over.
:o

chevytaHOE5674

Climbing is very dangerous and has a steep learning curve. Do tons of reading, and then get taken under the wing of a climber/ arborist before getting in the tree. Learn the knots, the ropes, the tricks of being safe and secure in the tree. Start low and slow, get lots of practice climbing before climbing with a saw in your hand.

If you only plan on removing a few trees then it is safest and most cost effective to hire it out...

Ironwood

I'll I can say is there appears to be only some knots that cross over from "rock" to tree. I am not a tree climber, although this buddy of mine is (see below) and has been a rock and ice guy for years(me too) , it appears to be a very different animal.  




Ironwood (sure would get that rope coated STEEL line though ;))
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

tim1234

I just do some recreational tree climbing and some basic tree trimming in my yard.  Evenso I studied for about 6 months before I even bought any equipment.  I agree the tree climbers companion is a good resource.  Also there are good training videos on recreational tree climbing and also the ArborMaster DVD and book series.  You can even rent the Arbormaster DVDs for not too much.  If you want some resources, you can PM me and I'll pass along some more links.

You need to know your equipment, knots, and techniques.  Getting stuck in a tree or cutting a line or falling all not good.  Remember a knot is either tied 100% right or 100% wrong.  You are depending on your equipment to keep you alive so do your research, call some distributers (Baileys is one of course) and they can help you with books, harnesses, DVDs, ropes, spurs (if you are removing the tree) Helmut, rigging etc. advice.  

The ropes are completly different for tree climbing to rock climbing.  Tree climbing ropes don't have a lot of give or stretch.  It stinks when you bounce like a rubber band when you are cutting a tree.  Rock climbing ropes are a lot more stretchy since they are mostly for a backup when you loose your grip and fall.  A fall from a tree climbing rope should not happen as you always tend your slack as you climb.  As for pole vs tree climbing, the only real difference in the climbers are the lenght of the gaffs or spikes.  Pole climbing gaffs are shorter since there is no bark.  Tree climbing gaffs are longer to go through the bark and into the meat of the tree.

Tree climbing harnesses can be a lot different from Rock or pole harnesses in that you sit in your harness when climbing a tree with rope.  When you climb with spurs, the weight is more on your legs, but It's good to have a sit harness in case you have to rig yourself out of a jam and end up sitting in your harness for a long time.

Also ask a lot of questions, there are a few climbers here too that can help.  Climbing with Spurs or ropes are a lot different but can also be used together.  

Please don't take this the wrong way  ::) ... I have a 36" waist and wish I was a little lighter when climbing, especially when dragging extra rigging, a hand saw and a chain saw along.  Your legs get tired pretty quick.  Man I can really hear my heart pounding if I have some ear plugs in.  You need to be in pretty good shape to do a lot of climbing and you don't want to do a lot of cutting with a chainsaw if you are fatigued.

I've only scratched the surface of climbing, but I really love it.  I go with my girls too.  My wife freaks out, but it can be really safe when done right.  Don't cut corners on your equipment and be vary weary of used equipment.  One of the 10 commandments of rope climing is to know the path your rope has traveled. If you don't know how your equipment has been treated, you really don't know if you can trust it.

Sorry for the long post.

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

Ironwood

Stretchy= Dynamic rope (usually kernmantel, or two layer)
Stiff= Static line  (braided, usually one material thru and thru)

     Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

beenthere

rebocardo
You are gonna make us worry about your sanity... ;D ;D ;D

Seems climbing a tree is one thing, doing it alone is another (or do you have that covered?). I'd think wanting someone on the ground knowing near as much as you do up in a tree would be very important..for rescue in tough predicaments.

Keep us posted so we don't miss anything, on how to go about this.

I thought the title "climbing vs pole vs rock" was how you plan to get a line up in a tree. Sounds ta me like throwing a rock or weighted bag would be the best -- with two feet on the ground.   :) :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

tim1234

There are a few books and DVDs at Baileys that look good. 

This is a new DVD called the working climber at Bailey's.  I will get a set myself.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=18724&catID=1064

I've got this book of knots and it has climbing knots as well as some other interesting and useful knots:

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=17326&catID=1064

I've got this one too: The Principles of General Tree work.  It has some climbing info, but also shows how to cut from within the tree and the different types of cuts to use for different situations.  Not a comprehensive rigging book, but still has a lot of very down to earth info:

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=17370&catID=1064

Got this one too...The Tree climbers companion that was mentioned by Rocky_J very good and is specific to tree climbing:

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=17371&catID=1064

Got this one too...Tree climbing basics is a good into into climbing.  Mostly for recreation, but techniques are used for tree work too.  How to get a rope into the tree, checking for a safe tree to climb, how to climb, equipment, knots etc. 

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=18720&catID=1064

Also I highly recommend renting the Arbormaster videos, the climbing video is really good and can save your life....literally by avoiding deadly mistakes.  Some knots like the prusik can fail if you use it wrong.

Tim

You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

DonT

Hi There is a lot of great information here.One book that I will add is the The ISA's Tree climbers guide.Books and DVD's are great but should in my opinion be backed up with some formal hands on training as well.Low and slow is the way to go till you are 100% comfortable with your equipment and climbing techniques.One of the most important parts of tree climbing is first doing a comprehensive risk assesment of the tree.That said once you start climbing you will love it.

Rocky_J

This is what happens when a non-climber tries to make a tv show using a tree climber. Notice the complete lack of comprehension between 'work positioning' and 'fall arrest' saddles.




DELETED!


Just a humorous reminder to take climbing advice from real climbers, dismiss advice given by non climbers. Because you never know when Paully might show up!  :o

beenthere

I missed the point of the video post, and didn't like the language - - especially for this forum. May just be me.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

crtreedude

I used to rock climb a lot and I can tell you it really doesn't cross over to tree climbing. A very different animal.

A few examples, in rock climbing, you climb with your legs and hands, the rope and gear is to protect you if you fall (when is more like it)

Where as, in tree climbing, the rope is how you climb the tree (or spikes, etc.). There is Single Rope Technique, Double, etc.

Some of the knots are the same, but honestly, not enough for you to think you have an advantage.

Harnesses are a real issue since a rock harness is to catch you, not support you. I have used one, but if you like the idea of being slowly cut into... using a rock harness...
So, how did I end up here anyway?

tim1234

My wife got me a bark spud and the Working Cimber DVD set for my Birthday/Anneversary present.  I watched the entire 4 hours or so in one night.  Mr. J. Beranek sure likes climbing and makes it look easy.  It is a lot different watching someone who knows what he is doing rather than just reading.  You get to see all the non-verbal stuff.

I was wondering why there was such a long segment on the throw line, but it was pretty cool and learned some new stuff. 

J.B. includes some video clips of a14' diameter tree as it seems there are some that say his pictures of some of the giants that have been climbed were faked.  The gentlemen that climbed the 14' diameter redwood with a flipline and spurs was really good at getting the flipline to move up the tree.  Really cool!

I want to get the rigging and chainsaw sets too.  I don't know if they are out just yet.

Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice...and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!!
Husky 372XP, 455 Rancher, Echo CS300, Alaskan 30" Chainsaw Mill

John Woodworth

There are a lot of things to take into consideration before you take on this task, the main thing will you go home at the end of the day. It's very dangerous work and to plan on learning while doing it is foolish.
You have to be able to judge what to and how to take it down and things at times look different up there than on the ground.
Can't tell you what to do but my advice is you need to spend some time with sombody who knows what they are doing to learn climbing ant then the tree removal.
I have trained people in the past and it doesn't happen overnight, good luck on , spend the money and live to see another day.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

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