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Started by Sawbuck, July 17, 2003, 02:37:27 PM

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Sawbuck

 About 2 years ago, my uncle purchaced a piece of property with a river, a dam, and an ancient water driven circle sawmill.  It was still in use periodicly a dozen years ago, but has sat idle since then.  The rotory gate around the turbine seized up and eventually, so did the turbine.

After puttering around with it for 2 years, and spending a lot of cash to get the shaft replaced on the turbine, it is spinning once again.

The saw blade has quite a bit of surface rust on it.  Any suggestions on how to clean it up?

It also has no lead at all.  The blade runs completely parallel.  How much should I start it at?  I was thinking around 1/16".

I ran a couple of cedar logs through it that have been sitting in the mill for decades.  It seemed to saw ok in spite of the rust and lack of lead.  

The old flat belts slip a little.  Should I replace them, or is there something I can dress them with to make them stick better?

Does anyone know of anyone in eastern Ontario who can still hammer these old blades?  We have 2 of them.  One was just back from being retoothed and hammered when the turbine seized up.

I'll post some pics of the mill as soon as I get some.

Thanks :)

Tom

I'll certainlly be watching your posts.  This sounds like a very exciting adventure.

Turbine?   I always picture water wheels on water driven mills.  Pictures will help explain to me how they transfer the power.  interesting.

On some things, wear and usage polishes the surfaces. Your rusty sawblade might take care of itself.

How fast will it saw and still not bog down?  I know that's a loaded question because of what is being sawed but I could see the saw being brought to halt if bogged down.

 :D I guess "smoking the engine" wouldn't have much of a place here, eh?  :D

Welcome to the Forestry Forum and please make more posts on the mill.

woodhaven

The book calls for 1/32 lead I run a little more than that myself. I know what you mean about rusty blades mine do the same after setting for a while. The best thing I have found is running a few pine logs through it. It won't look like new but it will look like a saw blade again. It must be the sap I can run a lot of other wood through and it won't clean a bit but a few pine logs works wonders.
  That circular mill won't ever get old it just needs a little tender loving care every once in a while.
Good Luck and Welcome Aboard!!!!
Richard

Mark M

Hi Sawbuck

Welcome to the group. You could polish it up nicely with a Scotch-Brite pad in an electric drill or air grinder. You can get a backer pad with 1/4 shaft to fit either. I have used them for many years to remove rust and they work well. You could also use some acid. Phosphoric acid is a common rust remover and it is the active ingredient in Navel Jelly (unless its changed). You could also try toilet bowl cleaner or some of that rust remover for bath tubs. Or you can just wait a while and let the logs polish for you.

We can't wait to see pictures.

Mark

inspectorwoody

Welcome to Forum!

I am very excited to see your pics. I also have an old circular mill but it isn't that neat  ;) I just recieved a publication titled "Circular Sawmills and their Efficient Operation by Stanford J Lunstrum. You can get a copy by contacting the Forest Products Lab in Wisconsin @ 608-231-9200.

solidwoods

Welcome.
For the blade body rust I would use an angle grinder with a cup brush mounted on.  
Mount blade on the arbor, just as for use. prw. off , have someone slowly spin the blade (counter/opposite to the grinder), work the grinder from ctr to out or reverse and brush/grind the rust off. If you wont mill for a few days, oil the  blade after use.
If you have no experience with a circle mill get someone who has run one to help and show you some safety tips.
JIM
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

biziedizie

  Why does this really cool mill have to be on the other side of Canada!!!! :'( :'(
  Here I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe you were going to be closer so I could come up for a day or so.....I mean a week or two and help ya run a few logs. ;D
  Any chance of you moving closer??? Like maybe next door??? Or better yet there's room for you here 8)


    Steve

chet

Welcome aboard Sawbuck. As you can tell, we are all just at teeeny tiiiiiny bit envious of yur mill.    :'(   Ya gots to post sum pics and make us feel even worse.    ;)
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Jeff

O.K., I know about rusty circle saws as I usually put one on every couple years. Don't worry about it, and dont waste your time or saw plate cleaning it. it will clean up just fine as you saw.

Welcome, and I too am excited about your membership and your future posts. Remember, all these guys will help if you have any trouble with pics and things like that.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Hey! you're only a days drive from me. Maybe someday I'll get to see this one!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

Theoretically (that's a big word for me), the saw blade shouldn't touch the wood to bring a shine to it, if my minimal understanding of the circular saw is correct. I do remember a good hunting friend of mine who had a circular mill, and he would worry about sawing too slow such that the sawdust would spill out of the gullet and along the blade, causing the blade to heat up and "warp" from heat expansion. Made sense to me then, but not sure if I completely understand it now. If so, sawdust spilling out of the gullets would likely cause the rust to be polished off, but may also cause the saw to heat.  But I too, believe that just running the saw will take care of the rust.

Heat from the teeth cutting through wood will elongate the rim, taking the hammered 'dish' out of the blade, so it runs straight. Again, a memory of what I used to think I knew about saws.

This same fellow I knew worked on a patent to design a circular saw so that the saw would heat toward the center by rubbing on the wood (log) thus balancing the heat created by the teeth at the rim, thus keeping the saw blade in balance. I think he was a close friend and worked on his ideas with Harry Schell in Blue River, WI, who was pretty good at hammering saws back then.  

That water-run mill sounds like a very exciting endeavor. Looking forward to pictures.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jeff

Theoreticacally, (DanG bubblehead thats a big word for anybody) Your right. The saw plate does not touich the wood due to the wider curve of the teeth and shanks(holders). But it will, and does at times and will clean its self. If Kiwi Chuck was here he's say "no worries mate"
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Sawbuck

Pictures!  I hope they are not too small  ::)






Anyone recognize the make/model/vintage?  There is no manufacturer's stamp that I can find.

Jeff

Sawbuck, send your original photos to tom@forestryforum.com  and he will make em in a bigger size so we can see them well.


YOUR WELCOME TOM! ;)

really, send em tom wont mind. I'd do it but I can for a day ot two.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

chet

DanG'D it Sawbuck we aint talking envious no more. Now we are downright Jealous.   :(
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

DanG

Hot Diggety DanG, Sawbuck. You've got a treasure there. 8) 8)  I'm sure one of the Forum eckspurts will help you put the pics into a thumbnail gallery so we can see them better. I can see enough with the small pics to tell you have put a lot of work into that old mill.  Thanks for sharing with us.

Does the mill have any log and lumber handling features that are water powered, too?  I know where there is an old steam powered mill on public display. They ran the whole thing off of one big shaft with a series of belts. It is just a static display now, but you can almost hear it run if you're in tune with what you're looking at. :)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Buzz-sawyer

Welcome to the forum!
I run a pre world war two circular saw and set works...be care ful not to damage your old blade in the cleaning process dont heat it by rubbing fiercly!....if it got new teeth and was hammered just before the mill shut down you should be able to saw for quite some time with no trouble(many thousands of multiple board feet)....about the lead......, every saw is different it is a bit more of an art than an exact science...so first,
 did it heat noticably to the touch when you finished sawing the logs (the blade should ALWAYS BE COOL to the touch)?

Second Did it rub excessively on the return? The goal is to only us enough lead to prevent contact with the log...
Don
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Jeff

 a heavily rusted saw may heat a little at first due to friction from the rust. The lead is trial and error. No two saws are alike. a 16th is not a bad starting point.

I just changed saws for the first time in almost two years to get it retentioned and some new shanks. It has close to 10 million board feet on it since last worked on (other then new holders I put in it while on the arbor)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Sawbuck

More pics!  ;D

I wish I took pics of the turbine before we re-assembled it.  It was pretty neat.  Cast about 120 years ago in one piece, it is a marvel of technology in itself.  With an 8 foot head, it will supply about 50hp.  I could supply about 76kW of electricty with this puppy if it wasn't spinning the mill. :)

There is another smaller turbine installed that used to power a water pump and a DC generator for lights in the mill.  It is seized at the moment and will require a complete overhaul.  There is also a dismantled turbine that fits in a third spot that will eventually be installed to generate about 40kW of electricity.

View of the dam and mill.
View of the millpond.
View of the *DanG, and the typical logdog? :)
We cut back the 4X6 decking over the penstock and installed a gate so we could remove the old rotted one that was just to the right if the steel bar in the lower right corner.  Having only a single gate, there was no way to replace boards while holding back the water.
A view of the penstock from the turbine room.  Mostly drained.
The partially submerged turbine housing.  It is actually spinning right now with only 3 feet of water!
The step-up gearbox and the turbine gate control.  (The old steering wheel)  :)
Flywheel, belt, and the mill mouse trap.
The carriage
Another view.


Well, enough for now.  I'll show more if requested :)

DanG

Thanks SawBuck!  Consider it requested. :)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

biziedizie

  Sawbuck I just got a call from my boss (me!) and he said that I have to relocate to Ontario, there's an emergency there and he said that I'm the only one that can deal with it. 8) :D :D
  Seems he said something about staying for awhile out your way. I see that a 40' mobile would look great right beside your pond. ;D
  I'm clean and I don't have a dog or a wife and I know how to make yellow snow in our winters. :D :D

OK, OK I'm not really telling the truth. :D :D

  Can I just come visit for awhile??? Please, pretty please. :)

  Hey I'll even bring some Canadian back bacon and some beers. 8)


    Steve

Sawbuck

DanG,

None of the log handling equipment is there anymore.  What was left of it was dismantled yesterday.  

When it is rebuilt, the carriage will draw logs up a set of rollers and onto 3 railroad irons set at the hight of the carriage.  They will then be rolled onto the carriage by hand, and rolled as needed on the carriage by hand also.  Any automation we add in the future will be driven by the turbine.

We will also be able to pull logs out of the millpond using the carriage if we want to keep some of them wet.  

I plan to dive it later this year to see if there are any ancient waterlogged treasures waiting to be sawed.

Sawbuck

Quote Sawbuck I just got a call from my boss (me!) and he said that I have to relocate to Ontario, there's an emergency there and he said that I'm the only one that can deal with it. 8) :D :D
  Seems he said something about staying for awhile out your way. I see that a 40' mobile would look great right beside your pond. ;D
  I'm clean and I don't have a dog or a wife and I know how to make yellow snow in our winters. :D :D

OK, OK I'm not really telling the truth. :D :D

  Can I just come visit for awhile??? Please, pretty please. :)

  Hey I'll even bring some Canadian back bacon and some beers. 8)


    Steve

There's no emergency yet, but the ol' girl is howling for some logs to eat, and the neibors are looking at their trees with concern :)

Any sawyer who wants to come up and look it over, you are quite welcome to :)  (bring wood!)  ;D

Frank_Pender

I too, welcome you a board, Sawbuck.   What a neat set of rigging.  8) I am purely enveious.  :'(
Frank Pender

Norm

Very cool setup Sawbuck, thanks for the pics and explaining it all to us.

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